Why is Frozen Mallet so expensive?

Squidblimp·Jun 14, 2015·36 votes·3,577 views

More people would build it if it was 3,000 gold instead of 3,300.

52 Comments

Best Carrot NAJun 14, 201526 votes

If it was cheaper more people would buy it and more people would complain like "wow permaslow no counterplay nerf pls", especially the ADC circlejerk

Lost In TimeJun 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If it was cheaper more people would buy it and more people would complain like "wow permaslow no counterplay nerf pls", especially the ADC circlejerk

100% confirmed.

Though, really, have you ever tried to flee a Xin or Olaf with this item?

You'll never, ever, escape.

doublelift fgJun 14, 20152 votes

you mean that they will become viable? the horror meanwhile ashe permaslow->ekko permaslow with 3 slows

Lost In TimeJun 14, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ix5jXah2,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-14T07:45:37.171+0000)

you mean that they will become viable? the horror meanwhile ashe permaslow->ekko permaslow with 3 slows

Except they're already strong but you circlejerkers won't admit it until they're overbearing.

Immediate knee-jerk downvote for agreeing with a guy; classic.

DreadlocksJun 14, 20154 votes

Theoddone with olaf this season: w:75 L:41 64.7% This is between Diamond 2 and masters... I would say that is pretty impressive... aside from that, I personally dont find olaf bad at all.. aatrox though.. he sux lol.

lDontLiftIcarryJun 15, 20153 votes

fuck aatrox i hope he dies a thousand deaths. And then street fighter kills him again.

Mandang0Jun 14, 20151 votes

This. People thought old Olaf was trash even when he was seeing competitive play. Now people are playing immobile ADCs who rely on kiting to survive, and people still think it's a bad time for Olaf...

Davy CrockettJun 14, 20151 votes

item 3025 Problem?

GorgannanJun 15, 20151 votes

If the way to make them viable is "If they have less gold than you, you win guaranteed, and if they have more, they win guaranteed." then I don't want them being viable.

The Olaf rework failed so hard. He is the 5th most toxic champion in the game.

AnidanJun 14, 20151 votes

Ever played against a Vayne with FM? That feels like the biggest bullshit. It's fair and all that, but damn. I feel like the biggest asshat on the planet when I do it, and then I feel like I got cheesed over super hard when they do it. It's awesome.

masterdragon481Jun 15, 20151 votes

But they would kind of be right. Frozen Mallet is immensely powerful on champions without CC. And since champions without CC are usually packing large amounts of damage, sticking to their targets is suppose to be the hard part (think champs like Shyvana and Darius). Frozen heart removes a LOT of that hard part, making it so the only hard part is getting the first attack to connect, rather than every single one.

As a tradeoff for this benefit, FM isn't particularly cost effective if you take away the perma slow.

SquidblimpJun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But they would kind of be right. Frozen Mallet is immensely powerful on champions without CC. And since champions without CC are usually packing large amounts of damage, sticking to their targets is suppose to be the hard part (think champs like Shyvana and Darius). Frozen heart removes a LOT of that hard part, making it so the only hard part is getting the first attack to connect, rather than every single one.

As a tradeoff for this benefit, FM isn't particularly cost effective if you take away the perma slow.

The tradeoff is already low AD and suboptimal tanks stats on the item.

masterdragon481Jun 21, 20151 votes

Agreed. But that is the only reason the item is still in the game. If it was any more gold efficient (aka, if it had a lower total cost) it would be too powerful an item.

SuperSourCatJun 15, 20151 votes

Pretty much

JamareeJun 14, 201515 votes

I want it to be cheaper, then I keep remembering that if it was, ADCs would buy it as a sixth item for surviability and untouchability...no thanks.

Mandang0Jun 14, 20151 votes

Couldn't you just make the item less stat-efficient and less expensive? It could be a weak slot endgame, but could offer characters less interested in stats a way to impact the game in a timely manner (rather than sinking 3300 gold into it). I'd say drop the AD completely and drop the price 800 or so, but I think that'd make it too strong on non-ADCs then.

ArithianFlameJun 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I want it to be cheaper, then I keep remembering that if it was, ADCs would buy it as a sixth item for surviability and untouchability...no thanks.

Melee only. Problem solved

DengedenJun 14, 20155 votes

Because Gnar I'm guessing.

ChaosThiefJun 15, 20151 votes

Actually just every champion that's ranged.

Take a jinx or a vayne, give them permaslow and tankiness. I don't want to think of that happening more often.

CrazedPorcupineJun 14, 20153 votes

Riot has said they don't want this item to be cheaper because it's a "WIN MORE" item. You buy it when winning so you can "win more" by making it harder for your opponent to fight you and run from you.

Hard PenetratorJun 15, 20151 votes

The truth is more dmg is almost always better to win more. They can't run away if they are dead.

Kynewborn23Jun 14, 20153 votes

I think if they decrease the cost and lower the slow percent to about 10% and the hp to about 300 and the damage to 25 then it would be viable but other than that anything done to that item would cause chaos

lDontLiftIcarryJun 15, 20151 votes

[deleted]

ChaosThiefJun 15, 20151 votes

That's the point.

TotalJerkJun 15, 20152 votes

Stop shitposting

Grappoz CóckJun 14, 20153 votes

Pls don't lower the cost..... I REALLY don't wanna find out what happens if ashe or kalista builds this.....

BeatzBoyFTWJun 14, 20152 votes

Kalista Lucian Tristana Oh please, god no, especially Kalista.....

SquidblimpJun 14, 20152 votes

Ashe already has the Frozen Mallet passive built into her kit, and before her rework she wasn't even that powerful. Honestly, it doesn't give much in the way of offense, and the slow is great for kiting as an ADC. I honestly don't think it would be OP, as it's only good against people that don't have a million gap closers. It wont stop assassins getting you, but you could more easily kite the tanks, say, Sejuani or Maokai or Sion or Nasus. I don't know, there just seem to be a millon tanks with gap closers these days too, and I feel that having a way to kite them as an ADC and continue DPSing is something healthy for the game.

Zone of EndlessJun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ashe already has the Frozen Mallet passive built into her kit, and before her rework she wasn't even that powerful. Honestly, it doesn't give much in the way of offense, and the slow is great for kiting as an ADC. I honestly don't think it would be OP, as it's only good against people that don't have a million gap closers. It wont stop assassins getting you, but you could more easily kite the tanks, say, Sejuani or Maokai or Sion or Nasus. I don't know, there just seem to be a millon tanks with gap closers these days too, and I feel that having a way to kite them as an ADC and continue DPSing is something healthy for the game.

At the same time there's a million adc with some kind of escape.

Ashe's passive only apply perma slow. It doesn't give her 700 health or the extra 30 AD.

It does give a lot in offense especially when you're chasing. With ADC being so mobile now it will be impossible to run away unless you have multiple dashes on low cooldown.

Can you imagine Lucian with it? You trying to escape or catching him but perma slowed while he constantly dashes.

Same apply with Kalista who is already annoying to deal with because of her passive alone. Tack on the on hit slow and you create an abomination.

The reason why champions today have so many dashes and that was because of Ashe's perma slow. So giving already mobile ADC, like Lucian and kalista i mentioned, would make ADC even more OP than before.

If you can't kite as an ADC nowaday then you should practice kiting/positioning. it's insanely easy when you have a team essentially dedicated to protecting you on top of having a lot more mobility/safety. ADC being able to easily kite something while obnoxiously pumping DPS is the most annoying thing in the world.

Lost In TimeJun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ashe already has the Frozen Mallet passive built into her kit, and before her rework she wasn't even that powerful. Honestly, it doesn't give much in the way of offense, and the slow is great for kiting as an ADC. I honestly don't think it would be OP, as it's only good against people that don't have a million gap closers. It wont stop assassins getting you, but you could more easily kite the tanks, say, Sejuani or Maokai or Sion or Nasus. I don't know, there just seem to be a millon tanks with gap closers these days too, and I feel that having a way to kite them as an ADC and continue DPSing is something healthy for the game.

That's because Ashe has no mobility and was THE lowest damage ADC around. Utility was her only saving grace.

She lost some of her early game slow but again, it's been balanced around her kit.

Now imagine champions with far superior bases (most melees), far superior DPS (fighters and ADCS) and far superior CC (fighters) with a permaslow to boot?

That is why Phage lost it's slow and Frozen Mallet got phased out.

I don't disagree that it shouldn't exist, but until it's been tweaked a bit, leave it as it is. I've already seen some resurgence of it, and it's nasty.

Occams RaiserJun 15, 20152 votes

They don't want it to be good. In reality they can't balance it in its current form. I once suggested that it be put on an active so it wouldn't be available all the time. Wasn't met well. If you can afford it you don't need it.

DreadlocksJun 14, 20151 votes

I'm all for a price decrease.. I love the item XD item 3022

SleepyLionCubJun 14, 20151 votes

I brought up this point before, and it all goes back to top lane, and how snowball champions would get infinite free kills with a permaslow like that.

Very Hard EngageJun 14, 20151 votes

because it does offer that single target "you're not getting away without an escape" mechanism. its good for picking out single targets.

RisenDarkKnightJun 14, 20151 votes

Because if everyone started building it it would be no fun. Everyone would be permaslowed. It already makes things really difficult for certain immobile melee champs

Shroom JunkieJun 14, 20151 votes

I get it on tanks a lot, and honestly its worth the money. 700 health? Woo. 30 AD? Nice! Slow on basic attack? GIMMIE!!!

Skia AsteriJun 14, 20151 votes

Because it is one of the strongest items in the game if you are winning lane.

iProbieJun 14, 20151 votes

The problem with the item is that, the slow is irrelevant in late game teamfights where teams burst each other in 3-4 seconds.

You don't need the slow at all when your Kalista just pentakilled the whole team with ori+ali combo

DracidJun 14, 20151 votes

because its a great item. Literally the only problem with it is the build path is so awful. Its like going to a donut store and you can get a box of 6 donuts but you can pick any 6 donuts you want. Just such a random cluster of items to get to it

ErockandrollJun 14, 20151 votes

The item would be OP if it was easy to build. Mostly because the passive is Just that good on it. A passive like that can't be easy to get.

A long time ago, I heard talk about removing Frozen Mallet from the game entirely because it was problematic when it does work. Not actually sure what happened their.

SnakezzyJun 14, 20151 votes

Yeah, whenever I play gnar it feels like forever to finish it for the stats it gives, I mean with that gold I could almost get a triforce.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 14, 20151 votes

Because of how insanely potent it is vs certain champions. There were alot of items like this and the other ones only got knocked down once Rito found a state for the item where it wasn't that situationally strong.

Can't think of any examples at the moment though. My guess is that this probably won't happen until the slow is nerfed more or the passive becomes an active. It'd probly be a good item to build out of item 3751 . Self synergy for when ur sticking to champs and further enforces the whole they don't want ADC's buying it thing. Gnar wouldn't mind tho.

MaximumNinja17Jun 14, 20151 votes

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the item 3022 and item 3044 item combo. You can never escape.

OshGoshBoGoshJun 14, 20151 votes

It would be too strong for the gold cost on many champions with high chase - Vi, Warwick, Xin, and more... its actually currently a reasonable price and is intended to be a mid-late game pickup unless incredibly fed.

It would also unleash the red buff early to team sharing since melee junglers would be slowing opponents way earlier in the game.

Onimus TerlainJun 14, 20151 votes

You need to pay a price for permaslow, since it has very little counterplay, especially for low mobility champions.

It's why Gangplank was nerfed into the ground, it was why Skarner was nerfed into the ground then remade.

It's why Phage was changed from a slow to a MS boost.

AbyssphereJun 15, 20151 votes

Watching a Gnar chasing people from one side of the map to the other with FM and Hyper is kinda disgusting, as is watching Kalista hopping after people and continuously slowing them, making it impossible for her victims to escape a giant Rend nuke (as if she wasn't difficult enough to shake already).

Jungle Lux GodJun 15, 20151 votes

Take Ashe's permaslow, and put it onto a mobile ADC like Kalista or Lucian.

Yeah, I don't think we want a world where Frozen Mallet is a little bit less expensive.

TotalJerkJun 15, 20151 votes

That takes a lot out of their DPS, though, and Kalista already doesn't have particularly strong DPS for an ADC

Dunkrius2gJun 15, 20151 votes

Here is your simple solution to FM being bought at least.

item 3022 2600-2900g

+450 health +25 damage. Passive remains the same.

GorgannanJun 15, 20151 votes

Frozen Mallet is where it should be. The passive is BROKEN on some, and bad on others. I remember they were talking about removing it altogether not too long ago, and even longer before that, if i'm not mistaken, they added the current passive to phage because they thought that a slow on auto was toxic.