All this Kindred hate, jeez.

Squidblimp·Sep 15, 2015·43 votes·4,514 views

People are already calling her boring without even playing her.

Sure, the way that they deal damage is the same as every other ADC out there, since they're an ADC. You can't really make basic attacks all that different. And sure, they deal some %HP damage, but that's to help them kill tanks, just like other ADCs.

So what is interesting?

The zone created by wolf, dealing extra damage to targets inside, and making them more mobile but only inside that zone.
Making an ADC be viable in the JUNGLE.
Their passive, permanently stacking damage on champion and monster kills, that could be anywhere around the map. It's kind of like Veigar's Q mixed with Garen's villain mechanic, but much more interesting, since it has a lot of mind games that could go along with it.
THeir ultimate. Very very unique. It could be used for good, like evening the difference in health between 2 teams or denying dives. Or it could backfire, letting an enemy get away.

I love this new champion.

EDIT: They, not she. ;)

74 Comments

LuggSep 16, 201522 votes

I would rather have a boring champ than another abomination like Ekko.

High5Sep 16, 201510 votes

{quoted}

I would rather have a boring champ than another abomination like Ekko.

Most overrated champ released in recent memory. I thought the Ekko design was super cool and he was fun to play and play against.

He wasn't nearly as broken as the community made him out to be. The community was just to lazy in learning how to play against him. Why learn something new when you can just ban it ... :(

LuggSep 16, 201511 votes

Ekko is fun to play, but he isn't fun to play against. Plus he was pretty broken on release.

FeathermaneSep 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Most overrated champ released in recent memory. I thought the Ekko design was super cool and he was fun to play and play against.

He wasn't nearly as broken as the community made him out to be. The community was just to lazy in learning how to play against him. Why learn something new when you can just ban it ... :(

Ekko is too confusing. Unless you are the one playing him, there is no way to figure out wtf he actually does by observation. A lot of the new champions are like that.

dannykunSep 16, 20158 votes

As an ADC enthusiast I find the ultimate facinating as it can do something a lot of ADC's dream of, save Kindred from the burst diver's who's only objective is to unload and murder the ADC. This ult could singlehandedly counter most assassin and burst caster's. I'm interested in what this champ will yeild for the meta, but I'm sure a lot of the hate comes from the Zed/Fizz mains crying about a champ who can actually deny them kills.

KoKobotoSep 16, 20151 votes

"ADC Enthusiast" sounds constraining, limiting and stupid

dannykunSep 16, 20155 votes

{quoted}

"ADC Enthusiast" sounds constraining, limiting and stupid

Welp maining ADC during a time when you're team isn't building natural peel is not good if you want to climb the ladder. So when another tank meta come's back I'll be an ADC main again. other than that so far you haven't really said much about what the thread is about and kinda look stupid because of it. if you don't have anything to add to the discussion feel free to see yourself out of the thread. no one wants a free-loader.

KoKobotoSep 16, 20151 votes

I'm not saying ADCs are stupid I'm saying this term you made, "ADC Enthusiast" is stupid

AfaSep 16, 20154 votes

not much thats better tbh, ADC admirer, ADC aficionado, ADC believer, ADC addict?

ADC enthusiast : )

KoKobotoSep 16, 20151 votes

I understand saying one loves to play adc and using the term "ADC Enthusiast" (albeit I find it really stupid) to word such feeling, but he called himself directly an "ADC Enthusiast" without making any kind of connection to said love. "ADC Enthusiast" on its lonesome sounds stupid

dannykunSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I understand saying one loves to play adc and using the term "ADC Enthusiast" (albeit I find it really stupid) to word such feeling, but he called himself directly an "ADC Enthusiast" without making any kind of connection to said love. "ADC Enthusiast" on its lonesome sounds stupid

Again it's completely off topic, but if you read my reply you'd know that I'd like to be an ADC main, but the meta makes that hard to do and climb elo with, so for now I'm content with being an enthusiast and waiting for another meta where there's more peel for an ADC to do well with.

High5Sep 16, 20151 votes

I don't disagree, but I can think of plenty of other better ways to counter assassins within the current champ pool.

dannykunSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't disagree, but I can think of plenty of other better ways to counter assassins within the current champ pool.

I just find it to be really interesting, as a lot of our current champion pool rely's on being able to completely unload their kit immediately on the nearest target and then wait for the ADC to cleanup so they can push towers. So being denied that in a way that they can actually completely waste their kit is new and interesting. We do have bard ult, but that stops enemies too if they get caught, so it can stop a zed ult, or some other form of debuff/dot type mechanic. But this ult can stop an annie that starts to walk up to you, you can ult and then auto from inside the safety of your ult. to which she either backs off, and you escape scott free, or she blows her kit, and you can just dps her down and heal up using BT and your healing passives and such.

This ult is powerful in a totally different way than the ones it's being compared to, because it forces a lot of champs to make decisions as to whether they let you go away and save their kit for another time/target, or they release it in hopes that someone else can come around and finish Kindred off, or that at least one or two of their CD's comes back in time for them to finish the job. if you are really good, you'll place wolf in your opponents path and then your ult a short distance away, making it so that if they want to wait for your ult to expire, then you can get a lot of free damage while you are making your escape, or you can even turn on them at this point given that you have a huge safety zone at this point. This champ is a hard zoning one that punishes chasing, and poor positioning.

Daedalus871Sep 16, 20155 votes

To be fair though, Kindred's Kit does read like a bad Boards Joke: Low CD Dash, %HP Damage, a 3 hit mechanic, and some sort of invincibility.

I do agree that it is way to early to tell with her, especially because of reason #2.

SquidblimpSep 16, 20155 votes

Sure, but honestly 3-hits are good design.

Daedalus871Sep 16, 20155 votes

It's not bad design, but it gets a little old.

Of the past 10 champions (counting Kindred, aka Vel'koz and after), 7 have had some sort of 3 hit mechanics (Bard, Azir, Kalista are the only ones that didn't). In the past 2 years, only 3 champions have not had a 3 hit mechanic (I'm counting Jinx minigun). Again, it's not bad design, but it gets old.

SeductiveGrandpaSep 16, 20151 votes

As long as the 3 hits have some cool ass particles attached to them that shine, I'm up for it. Lovin Kindred's it looks cool.

Daedalus871Sep 16, 20152 votes

I'd be happy with having a 3 hit design if it brought something new, but it's 3 hits for a slow and %max hp damage.

AutoreactiveCD4Sep 16, 20151 votes

Slow comes first then 3 hits and damage. Personally I don't like having the slow first because she also has a dash and it may be way to easy to proc. I'm fine with these 3 hit things but its a little too much if they give them every single tool to guarantee procing it.

Of course I haven't played her so ignore me if im completely wrong.

Daedalus871Sep 16, 20151 votes

Even if the slow comes first, it's not anything new on an overused mechanic.

AutoreactiveCD4Sep 16, 20151 votes

True enough. I like tahm and braum's stacking though. The stacks aren't necessarily about damage but CC. Although tahm's w will do a crapton.

SeductiveGrandpaSep 16, 20151 votes

3 hits for a slow, max hp damage, and a pretty sign.

Daedalus871Sep 16, 20151 votes

It would be cooler if the pretty sign did something new though.

XonraSep 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Sure, but honestly 3-hits are good design.

Good design sure, but overdone? Uh yeah. The "3-hit do x" design has been on 5 of the last 9 champs, and some VERY similar ways on certain champs. Even Vi had one. It isn't new, it isn't interesting anymore.

Things like this are why people are pooping on it right now, because it has all the bad jokes that people meme about and complain about, but in one kit. you can't expect that to be well received. People make jokes about the 3-hit thing a lot lately because both Ekko and Tahm had them and were being made fun of on them. So we are supposed to get a "new and unique champion" so said the champion designer in my twitter feed.

What we got was all the bad memes of kits squashed into one kit, and nothing about it is new or unique.

Will it be good?

Sure (I've actually played with it on the PBE) Will it work as a jungler?
Sure Is it doing anything different?
Nope Is that inherently a bad thing?
Not at all Is it bad when more than half of the last few new champs do the same things in their kits?
Very much so

^ that's the issue

MrWasjigSep 16, 20156 votes

3 hits may be a healthy design choice and I can respect that Riot is using it. But holy shit am I getting bored of it now xD I would like to see some other mechanic introduced that triggers something in another way so that Riot can stop beating this over saturated dead horse of game design.

AuryielSep 16, 20154 votes

The very fact that people keep calling them a she shows how much Riot failed to deliver on this champion.

I'm fine with the kit, but not on THAT champion concept. Such a waste of a good idea. Death impersonated by two kindred spirits that are equals and complement each other? Better make it a boring AD carry with a hunter and pet kit.

Just... wtf.

I was so hyped for this champion... I'm honestly done getting excited for new champs. It's much better this way.

SoenSep 16, 20154 votes

When you say "her" you are refereeing to Lamb. If you are referring to Kindred then it's they. Once this champ is released I'm sure people will have a different opinion about their gameplay. Unless you have a PBE account all you can do now is speculate and watch videos.

AIIanSep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When you say "her" you are refereeing to Lamb. If you are referring to Kindred then it's they.

You must use "it", not "her". "They" are genderless. It's written in the preview article. Would be like calling Rek'Sai "he" because she's bulky.

SoenSep 16, 20153 votes

Actually if you look at the ability descriptions you'll see that Wolf is referred to as "him" and Lamb as "she". I figured if they were going with a Yin and Yang theme they would make one male and the other female.

AIIanSep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually if you look at the ability descriptions you'll see that Wolf is referred to as "him" and Lamb as "she". I figured if they were going with a Yin and Yang theme they would make one male and the other female.

Dunno where you saw that. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/champion-reveal-kindred-eternal-hunters

The only part where a gender-related pronoun is used designate Wolf as a he, and the rest of the news use "it" for Lamb.

Wolf temporarily splits from Lamb, creating a large spirit zone around him and attacking whoever Lamb attacks, or his closest enemy.

SoenSep 16, 20153 votes

Oh! My bad. It says her.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-upE3YXfXL7w/VfiIoYK0faI/AAAAAAAAxV0/YUIlhfW_bTw/s1600/W.jpg

AIIanSep 16, 20151 votes

Looks like we're both right. News and game don't accord. We shall see at release.

wfrostySep 16, 20155 votes

Gender-specific pronouns historically override gender-neutral pronouns. Just because one source uses an "it" does not mean that you are somehow "partially right." Lamb is either female or something else. She can't be female and genderless at the same time. Furthermore, the "it" most likely refers to Kindred as a unit rather than either of its members.

Please do proper research before refuting someone's claim. It can be easy to be confused by pronoun usage in a company where the right hand is unaware of what the left hand is doing, so I can easily forgive you this time.

BattleBalladeerSep 16, 20153 votes

The zone created by wolf, dealing extra damage to targets inside, and making her more mobile but only inside that zone.

Trundle already does that exact description, and also gains extra healing like a spirit visage. The only difference (aside from the heal buff) is that it adds to his AS instead of causing 2 different damage sources, and Wolf attacks when Lamb isnt in it. The use of multiple damage sources might make item 3071 an option though.

I really love this character aesthetically despite the kit's similarities to others, and I am also sure that the kit as a whole will bring a fun, new champion after some tweaks. I am going to watch PBE closely.

SquidblimpSep 16, 20152 votes

Wolf doesn't attack when Lamb leaves actually, the zone dissipates when she leaves.

Jeddy017Sep 16, 20152 votes

*They I know,I know.I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this.But when referring to Kindred (which refers to BOTH Lamb & Wolf),the proper pronouns to use is they,their & them.Kindred is 2 characters in 1 champ remember.

SEKAISep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

*They I know,I know.I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this.But when referring to Kindred (which refers to BOTH Lamb & Wolf),the proper pronouns to use is they,their & them.Kindred is 2 characters in 1 champ remember.

Please.

Annie Azir Bard Lulu Nunu Orianna Quinn Sejuani Udyr Yorick

Axis the DragonSep 16, 20156 votes

Of the Champions you mentioned, only Nunu/Willump, Quinn/Valor, and maybe Lulu/Pix could qualify as "they"

Tibbers is a teddy bear brought to life by Annie herself - a summoned golem, so to speak

Azir's soldiers are literally just magical sand

I'm not sure what Meeps are, exactly

Orianna's ball is just an enchanted mechanical ball.

I could give you Sejuani, but honestly Sejuani could've picked any large animal - the boar is not what makes Sejuani Sejuani. Hell, she could've not rode anything at all - her Q could just be herself dashing and knocking people up. It would look funny, but hey, Vi can do it.

Udyr just channels animal/beast spirits into his martial arts, he doesn't actually fight with them

Yorick's ghouls hardly count as sentient, and they aren't specific "beings" - they're spirits of the undead that he brings back to (un?)life.

cool165Sep 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7O7QpAw1,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2015-09-16T04:50:19.305+0000)

Of the Champions you mentioned, only Nunu/Willump, Quinn/Valor, and maybe Lulu/Pix could qualify as "they"

Tibbers is a teddy bear brought to life by Annie herself - a summoned golem, so to speak

Azir's soldiers are literally just magical sand

I'm not sure what Meeps are, exactly

Orianna's ball is just an enchanted mechanical ball.

I could give you Sejuani, but honestly Sejuani could've picked any large animal - the boar is not what makes Sejuani Sejuani. Hell, she could've not rode anything at all - her Q could just be herself dashing and knocking people up. It would look funny, but hey, Vi can do it.

Udyr just channels animal/beast spirits into his martial arts, he doesn't actually fight with them

Yorick's ghouls hardly count as sentient, and they aren't specific "beings" - they're spirits of the undead that he brings back to (un?)life.

didn't it say in her lore that the ball has its own mind? kinda like a pet dog that wants to protect its owner

Axis the DragonSep 16, 20151 votes

Eh, not quite. It's more like the ball is another limb for Orianna - according to her lore they have a "symbiotic relationship" - so it's more than just dog and her master. They're pretty much the same person, is what I'm trying to say - and they're not "split" into two distinct personalities like Kindred is.

HawkefireSep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

People are already calling her boring without even playing her.

Sure, they way that she deals damage is the same as every other ADC out there, since she's an ADC. You can't really make basic attacks all that different. And sure, she does some %HP damage, but that's to help her kill tanks, just like other ADCs.

So what is interesting?

The zone created by wolf, dealing extra damage to targets inside, and making her more mobile but only inside that zone.

Making an ADC be viable in the JUNGLE.

Her passive, permanently stacking damage on champion and monster kills, that could be anywhere around the map. It's kind of like Veigar's Q mixed with Garen's villain mechanic, but much more interesting, since it has a lot of mind games that could go along with it.

Her ultimate. Very very unique. It could be used for good, like evening the difference in health between 2 teams or denying dives. Or it could backfire, letting an enemy get away.

I love this new champion.

I think the reason why they dislike her is because it doesn't really feel like she is the dual champion that Riot made her out to be.

I think people were really looking forward to seeing how riot would actually implement a true dual champion (as in a champion that is, more or less, 2 champions with the combined power of 1).

kirbyzamaSep 16, 20152 votes

I honestly when I heard marksmen and adc I was sold already no matter how bad or good he/she is since those are my favorite positions. When I heard the vo I was more convinced. She/he'll be fine if not op like every champ is on release. My main problem is that the mark basically telegraphs who is getting camped which kinda defeats the purpose but ehh infinite scaling adc is a thing now.

MrWasjigSep 16, 20152 votes

I absolutely adore Kindred's thematic and aesthetic. They're probably among the more unique champions in that regard. In my opinion, first impressions the kits seems a little "standard" (as I've said on another thread). But that's just 1st impressions and I'm really looking forward to and hoping that there's more intricacy to the kit than what's first apparent, along with it being more interesting than it seems.

KatCraftSep 16, 20152 votes

It's not so much that she's THAT boring, just that with the theme and build up for the champion people were expecting a bit more creativity. We thought we were getting a duel champion playstyle with two individuals, instead it's just a humanoid and her pet, i.e Quinn.

You honestly could of given this kit to a champion that wasn't meant to be two characters and it wouldn't of made a difference. Wolf feels very inconsequential.

MarshallBanannaSep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

People are already calling her boring without even playing her.

People complain about a lot of things prior to a champions/rework release. "overloaded", "op", "up" and the like.

Most are complaints regarding power level.

However, this time people are complaining about the blandness of the design itself. It reuses way too many things we keep seeing over and over. It showcases a lack of innovation on Riot's part and a waste of an interesting character concept.

And sure, she does some %HP damage, but that's to help her kill tanks, just like other ADCs.

It's an overused gimmick. Way too many champs have it.

So what is interesting?

The zone created by wolf, dealing extra damage to targets inside, and making her more mobile but only inside that zone.

Zones are not particularly interesting mechanics. Buffs while remaining in a zone have been done before. Making her Q feel like Kalista on item 3085 doesn't help one bit.

Making an ADC be viable in the JUNGLE.

It's just a range change. Kits are more than just melee/ranged. Besides, people have been using some ADCs/rangeds in the jungle from time to time anyway.

Her passive, permanently stacking damage on champion and monster kills, that could be anywhere around the map. It's kind of like Veigar's Q mixed with Garen's villain mechanic,

Yes, it's a been there done that mechanic. Stacking's been done. Marking a champion's been done. Marking a target at random has been done. Mixing these together doesn't create a particularly interesting mechanic.

but much more interesting, since it has a lot of mind games that could go along with it.

How? You can't choose the target. The only mind game i can think of is "Hey, i'm the target. I bet Kindred is gonna waste his time ganking this lane for the 90 seconds instead of helping other lanes"

Her ultimate. Very very unique.

no it's not. Its just Bard 's ult that just happens to work like Tryndamere 's ult. Uninspired but very disruptive.

RisenDarkKnightSep 16, 20151 votes

You pick the target for her passive...

BiffoloSep 16, 20151 votes

First off, you can pick the target for said passive, second off you can just gank somewhere else, while you are expecting the gank up top. that's what he meant by mind games.

SEKAISep 16, 20151 votes

Riot is quite active in shietting out ADCs lately.

Not to mention, making a champ who is a better version of the old ones is literally just asking for fists in the face. Mobility creeps don't help either.

Just sayin'.

**EDIT: **

This is a problem I have with Riot's design since quite some time ago, they seem to design a champ specifically to do something within the meta, and not let the champ change up the meta himself by only giving him a kit that serves his characteristics and just let go, if you get what I mean here.

That's why when they design something like say an ADC who is supposed to be also a top laner, which they were never capable of in the first place, it only introduces horrible balance problems because they effectively HAVE TO make the said champ overloaded to make him/her compete properly in the top where ADCs are not supposed to stand their ground, and this results in the champ being stupid to deal with in their motherland the bot lane also in the top lane.

It's a backwards design philosophy in the end of the day, and it would only serve to the game's detriment.

High5Sep 16, 20152 votes