So let me get this straight....he was a generalist who did too much too well. So you change him in a way that makes him unsuitable to lane, but great for support. And then you nerf the thing about him that made him good for support?
I mean, do you guys really like...ya know, try to think things through and how they might play out before you make rather big changes on a champion?
Seems like you guys really don't
Paquay3 votesNo they never think anything through at all. They don't put changes on PBE or anything. They also don't look at the data they get on changes at all.
You definitely know more than them. It's surprising how terrible every change they ever make is.
/s
DonnieDarkin1 votesIt really is. I see what you are trying to do with the sarcasm, but, they ignore a lot of data for agendas.
Paquay1 votesMaybe, just maybe, there is a bigger picture that they see. You complain about one champ when they just did a tank re-work. Yes, he needs some adjustments, but they are doing that.
Damn, it's like everyone wants everything that they work on to come out 100% perfectly balanced and never need any adjustments. At least they are fixing it.
DonnieDarkin1 votesA bigger picture? What was the bigger picture when they left tank ekko a thing for so long? Do you really assign that much thinking to them?
"Damn, it's like everyone wants everything that they work on to come out 100% perfectly balanced and never need any adjustments. At least they are fixing it."
Yes and here is why. Upon release of many changes, such as poppy rework, the community can instantly, withouth even fucking playing the champion, that that champion is now busted and is going to be nerfed. And of course Riot eventually nerfs the champion. So if so many things are obvious to us, why is so hard for them to see it?
Paquay2 votesData points my dear Watson, data points.
If things are always so easy to see then no game would need to go through Beta and then there would be no rebalancing needed in all games. The world, and more specifically, video games, doesn't work like that.
"Do you really assign that much thinking to them?"
They run the world's most popular video game. I do assign that much thinking to them. Not to say that they don't make mistakes, but to assume they just re-write some code, call it good, then implement the changes is ridiculous.
DonnieDarkin1 votesMcDonalds run the worst most well known fast food chain. Therefore, they are masters of food right? Their product is high quality?
I know it sounds ridiculous, be in any organization you will have people who do the minimum, or get promoted to position that reveals their incompetence. You think that doesn't happen with Riot? You are living in a fantasy world my friend.
Paquay1 votesYou think the executives and managers at McDonalds don't think things through before they enact change? You can't use the minimum wage employees, their job is mostly automated. Remember, we're talking about thinking changes through before implementing them. Even the most minuscule changes they make can cost or make millions of dollars.
You may bash McDonald's for not being low quality, but I'd be willing to bet my house that the majority of restaurants out there would die to achieve the level of sales the McDonald's musters.
Ralanr2 votesThey changed him to make him great in the jungle but people found him very effective as support so they are nerfing that to encourage playing him in the jungle.
He was not reworked to be a support.
DonnieDarkin2 votesYes but with all of their experience, couldn't they see how the changes were going to put him at support? Its not like hes competative right now against top tier junglers
Ralanr2 votesThing about throwing in new stuff is that you can't always predict what will happen. It's possible that they did see it coming but just wanted to see how much better the community will use it over jungle. When it comes to reworks, Riot doesn't expect it to be a "one and done" patch.
Considering how Mundo rose in winrate during the marksmen rework despite there being a very cheap item to counter him (that people just refused to buy), I think it makes sense to wait and see what we as a community of rather insane players come up with before deciding how much they like it and whether or not it's ok.
NinjaGuy692 votesSo let me get this straight....he was a generalist who did too much too well. So you change him in a way that makes him unsuitable to lane, but great for support. And then you nerf the thing about him that made him good for support?
Tired of all these Maokai threads. They're nerfing his saplings because they're toxic and an unintended result of his rework. You're just complaining about what's essentially an exploit in his kit. He was redesigned to be a tank, not a cheesy burst mage. Maybe try reading the Insights posts that Riot posts before making a thread to complain about random stuff.
DonnieDarkin1 votes"They're nerfing his saplings because they're toxic and an unintended result of his rework.
unintended? Its like, does Riot not know the players? Of course they were going to cheese with his saplings at bot. I mean, obviously. Thats what league players do--find the most powerful cheese.
I dont give them a pass for being stupid. Haha insight.
How did their "insight work" when they buff/nerf botrk 2 times a year? OH lets read their insight when they changed Poppy a while back and she was stupid OP for the longest time until finally they nerfed her. OR lets read their insight when they made that crit mastery a long time ago that everyone knew was broken on Trynd and Yas but somehow, Riot couldn't see what was obvious.
Spare me. Their insight can sound good at the time, but historically its shown that their insight is often wrong or misguided, and then they have to reverse what they did.
You give them way too much credit.
Dukues1 votesThey definitely don't think everything through. The maoi thing is a joke. They will fix it eventually but right now enjoy having games ruined because of Maoi support. I feel like it was a pretty obvious this would happen if they just took a sec to think the sapling thing through but...... here we are.
DonnieDarkin1 votesExactly. Why do people hate me for pointing out the obvious?
Erockandroll1 votesFirst of all, keep in mind that the PBE is mainly a place for Testing new abilities, skins, to make sure everything runs smoothly. Actual balance, requires to be tested over several games. More than they can accomplish on PBE, so balancing has to come from live data.
There's isn't much in the way of Thinking, or realistically theory crafting. Basically Riot has to make it's decisions based on the data. If there's error, then it simply comes from incomplete data. This would suggest that the Support Maokai shenanigans never showed up in PBE, or that it's effectiveness was understated. Riot simply doesn't have the man power to test everything in game by themselves. (By definition, beta testing is testing done by someone outside of the original product) But the PBE people can't be feverishly told to abuse test every aspect of the changes because they are effectively volunteers.
Also, too often do I see people theories about certain changes ending up being completely wrong. I would say that even Expecting Riot to be able to predict the outcome of their changes, would be simply ludicrous.
OtterlyLost1 votesHonestly, they destroyed Maokai with his rework. That ult is useless, his CC has been nerfed down majorly, and I don't feel like he's all that particularly tanky. And now they're nerfing the one playstyle and role Maokai has does well now into the ground because a few players don't know how to avoid cheese. :/