Builds Pure Tank

Kivolan·Dec 27, 2015·2 votes·691 views

Gets most damage on team

Fix this abomination so it can stop being permabanned, please.

24 Comments

ModKnightsKemplarDec 27, 20154 votes

Haha what was the enemy comp? And did they build grievous wounds?

I'm okay with Mundo being that dominant when NO ONE EVEN TRIES TO COUNTER HIM. He should be. It's all he has. Because if you counter him, he sucks.

ZephyrDrakeDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Haha what was the enemy comp? And did they build grievous wounds?

I'm okay with Mundo being that dominant when NO ONE EVEN TRIES TO COUNTER HIM. He should be. It's all he has. Because if you counter him, he sucks.

sorry but what? sorry but no, that's a really stupid logic you have right there. He can literally tank entire teams while dealing stupid amounts of damage all while building tank. One of those things needs to go, either he deals a ton of damage or he is able to tank entire teams. Mundo is an issue right now and i have seen him still heal for stupid amounts and tank for such dumb amounts even with grievous wounds. He doesn't suck at all, he is broken right now

ModKnightsKemplarDec 27, 20151 votes

Mobility is part of balance. He has none.

You may not like that argument, and you may not agree with it, but it's it isn't illogical.

ZephyrDrakeDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Mobility is part of balance. He has none.

You may not like that argument, and you may not agree with it, but it's it isn't illogical.

he doesn't need mobility when all he needs is land a single Q on you and you are not going anywhere. Hell all he needs to do is wait for the enemy to engage on his team or just run at you with his team behind him. What are you going to do? focus on the guy who takes next to no damage from your team? good luck blowing everything on him while he laughs and just keeps spamming Qs, one of them is eventually going to hit and unless you are able to dash over a wall then you are dead

TehNACHODec 27, 20151 votes

Or get the ADC who's supposed to be building Tank-Buster to to melt Mundo over time like a normal DPS champ is supposed to do to any Tanky champ.

ZephyrDrakeDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Or get the ADC who's supposed to be building Tank-Buster to to melt Mundo over time like a normal DPS champ is supposed to do to any Tanky champ.

oh right, get the ADC who is going to tickle him since last whisper items suck so much and even if you do get the grievous wounds one early you aren't going to do anything to Mundo since you have no damage whatsoever. All the while Mundo is just happily building armor and health with spirit visage and not caring one bit since now your ADC is forced to build an item that does nothing for them until they get at the bare minimum 2 other items completed and if you get it late then Mundo is just way too tanky and won't give a damn about your team anyways so he just rushes in soaks as much damage as he can while his team is just destroying yours but you cannot simply ignore Mundo since he is still dealing a stupid amount of damage and is going to harass the living hell out of your ADC and there is nothing they can do without someone peeling for them against a Mundo which leaves even less people to deal with his team

TehNACHODec 27, 20151 votes

Lord Dominik's Regards sits at a 55-58% winrate, higher than what Mundo represents as a champion. If you're going to use statistics like Mundo's win rate to try to prove a point, at least do your research before you continue commenting on something else you clearly do not know about.

But oh wait, Dominik's is the health stacking counter. Nacho you're arguing about Grievous Wounds, GG? Mortal Reminder has an identical win rate ranging from 55% to 59.9%.

Complain more that a Tank Buster would do no damage to a champion they are itemizing to counter. Sure is reflected well in the statistics, don't you think?

KivolanDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Mobility is part of balance. He has none.

You may not like that argument, and you may not agree with it, but it's it isn't illogical.

Bonus movement speed on his R, reduced duration of crowd control, slows on his Q...

But anyway, mobility is less of a factor to me than the fact that he literally gets more damage by building more health. Other tanks with little to no mobility are balanced by the fact that, if they build pure tank, they deal small amounts of sustained damage.

Meanwhile... Mundo.

TehNACHODec 27, 20152 votes

Except he's not a tank, he's a Fighter.

And all other Fighters like him, specifically the subclass of Juggernauts, they all share this trait with Mundo. Darius, Garen, Illaoi, and even Juggernauts that predate the official rework like Volibear. All are identical in the standard that Mundo is held to. Hell, the majority of them even have more utility than Mundo.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 27, 20151 votes

Yeah, I kind of agree with TehNACHO on this one... LOTS of tanks have health scaling.

Mundo might be a little strong, but tanks without damage or CC are literally a wasted champ. It has to be one of those (a little of both, in most cases). So the beginning argument isn't sound. If the tank can't hurt you, you ignore him and tanks are worthless.

TehNACHODec 27, 20151 votes

It's perfectly sound logic. If you just sit on your hands all game, the enemy is bound to win. If you're playing against a champion with stupidly obvious strategic weaknesses and do nothing to stop them, their strong points will shine through. Calling him broken does not solve the issue if you will do nothing to try to stop him.

ZephyrDrakeDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's perfectly sound logic. If you just sit on your hands all game, the enemy is bound to win. If you're playing against a champion with stupidly obvious strategic weaknesses and do nothing to stop them, their strong points will shine through. Calling him broken does not solve the issue if you will do nothing to try to stop him.

yeah, that's why he has such a high winrate and banrate. Mundo is broken and you can put him behind all you want he will still tank your entire team. You can build grievous wounds all you want. He doesn't give a single damn about it and will still tank your entire team for a good while, while still healing dumb amounts of HP even with grievous applied on him. Mundo's "strategic weakness" is that he cannot jump into you and needs to run towards you... it's good that he doesn't have a spammable spell that once he hits you ONCE with it you are boned and unable to escape... OH WAIT!

TehNACHODec 27, 20152 votes

Except people don't build Grievous Wounds. Looking specifically at EC and MR, EC has half a percentage of usage and MR sits around 2%, a whopping 2.5% of all games are ADCs remembering to counter the sustain tank on the enemy team. People are (metaphorically) sitting on their hands.

ZephyrDrakeDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except people don't build Grievous Wounds. Looking specifically at EC and MR, EC has half a percentage of usage and MR sits around 2%, a whopping 2.5% of all games are ADCs remembering to counter the sustain tank on the enemy team. People are (metaphorically) sitting on their hands.

i have built grievous wounds against Mundo every single time i am the ADC or AP and he is on the enemy team. It does NOTHING! he still out heals everything, still tanks everything, still gives no damns about anything. I have seen high elo matches in which people build grievous wounds, same result. Grievous wounds does next to nothing against Mundo since he just does not care at all due to how tanky he gets and he can simply run away when he gets low enough, heal himself to full in a manner of seconds (if he doesn't decide to back) and then comeback for more.

TehNACHODec 27, 20152 votes

And who cares about you and your anecdotes. If we were going to eyeball every individual player's experience, we'd have a fucking mess of a balance dealing with champion mains reaching +60% win rates.

Now on the other end of the spectrum, statistics do not lie. Mortal Reminder nearly reaches 60% win rates for the entire population of the game. Consider that for your anecdote.

ZephyrDrakeDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And who cares about you and your anecdotes. If we were going to eyeball every individual player's experience, we'd have a fucking mess of a balance dealing with champion mains reaching +60% win rates.

Now on the other end of the spectrum, statistics do not lie. Mortal Reminder nearly reaches 60% win rates for the entire population of the game. Consider that for your anecdote.

Mundo is broken and nothing you say will change it. One of the most banned champions in the game currently and has over 53% winrate while having a decent enough playrate. Sorry but if you want to talk about statistics, he is broken! don't try to defend him by saying "people don't build this!" Grievous wounds does nothing! like i said i have plenty of people building it against mundo, i have built against mundo nothing changes. Also how many of those wins for mortal reminder were against a mundo? oh that's right you can't tell! how many of them were people just building it for the heck of it since they were so far ahead? oh right, you can't tell!

But sure let's allow mundo to be such a banned broken champion because people refuse to build an useless item against him. It's not like Ignite exists in the game, or Morello's there are more than one choice of grievous wounds in the game you know? and ADCs won't build mortal reminder until they have at least 2~3 items already since it provides nothing for them. Yes they might be able to do something against mundo... which will just laugh at the pitiful damage they are doing to him anyways and laughing even harder since they deal next to no damage against the rest of his team

TehNACHODec 27, 20152 votes

But the statistics prove that Grievous Wounds does do something. People like you are just too stupid to get off their hands and actually use it. Nobody would ever build a Last Whisper upgrade for the hell of it due to its nature, meaning that we can safely assume the only time Mortal Reminder is used is to specifically fight a Drain Tank, especially those of Mundo's nature.

You're arguing against facts that are supported by a population many times larger than your anecdotes can get you. Please do not cover your ears and whine loudly.

TehNACHODec 27, 20152 votes

A Fighter based champion that has played like a Juggernaut for forever is doing damage while being fantastically tanky.

Honestly I'd complain more that in application, he's fantastically simple for all the stuff he can do.

IcyPepperDec 27, 20151 votes

I'm afraid to voice an opinion here.

TehNACHODec 27, 20153 votes

Then voice a fact, they tend to go farther.

"I've seen Mundo be op" vs "On average, the people who counter build towards him win a whole lot more".

IcyPepperDec 27, 20155 votes

I think that's fair, so I'm going to upvote—and somebody already downvoted you :P Talk about a warning sign.

Anyway, I think the main flaw in OP's post is the whole "build pure tank, dealt more damage" thing is flawed. Not all champions deal damage equally, and tanking is more than just build.

Mundo, in all honesty, is not that much of a tank or a bruiser. He's basically a juggernaut, or at the very least some tanky fighter. He doesn't offer as much cc as a pure tank (like Sejuani or Nautilus), and he isn't mobile like Vi or Jarvan.

People seem not to understand this, but when your kit doesn't have a lot of crowd control and mobility, it's usually compensated by damage. It's why Darius deals true damage with his ultimate, but doesn't have any stuns or dashes. It's why Garen has an execute, instead of some sort of stun or powerful crowd control.

Anyway, that's my analysis. If we want to talk about facts, I'll use this as a source: Link. If OP is actually interested in discussion, and isn't pointlessly whining, I gladly extend an invitation to join me in one.

First thing I'm going to say is that Mundo is a bit strong at the moment. No point in denying it. Looking at raw stats, he deals above average damage, dies a lot, gets below average kills, above average assists, and takes a lot of damage.

So far, ignoring that he's probably overtuned, it looks like he's functioning as intended: deals more damage on average, gets focused a lot, but usually isn't the one to finish the enemy off. Basically what a frontline juggernaut should be doing.

His core build includes defensive boots, and two pure tank items that synergize with him. The three other items have tank stats, but offensive passives. Resolve tree is dominant.

My conclusion is that OP's main claim is flawed, but his complaints aren't completely invalid. Mundo appears to be overtuned in some regard, but dealing damage while building tanky is not the issue here.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 27, 20151 votes

This. Upvoted.

LOLegitimateDec 27, 20151 votes

someone who builds pure tank and get damage for it Volibear Malphite TahmKench

TehNACHODec 27, 20151 votes

I'd argue that Garen should also be an honorary member to the list, given that his Passive damage scales near exclusively to how many times he hits the opponent, and this is most commonly done by being too tanky to kill without taking a long while.