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Why is Katarina considered an assasin?

Terozu··1 votes·1,062 views

I get her design is very Assassiny, but if you look at her actual kit; Her Q is an AoE bounce ability, that sets up her W, which is a circle that deals aoe damage when touched. Her E, her ONLY single target ability, is only even a real damage tool when she's building AD, which isn't often. Her Ultimate is a giant AoE burst damage over time. If you look at her kit, she really isn't an assassin.
Edit; After rereading this; http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses DevBlog entry by Riot. She seems to be less an Assassin, and more of an Assassin/Battle Mage hybrid.
Assassins are highly single target focused, melee, bursters who have high mobility, and must get into the thick of a fight to kill their targets. Battle Mages, are near melee range, with the ability to wards off death for a few seconds, while dealing MASSIVE aoe damage. Katarina, is a melee range burster with high mobility, but is able to skirt around fights and kite defensively while dealing massive AoE damage to the enemy team.

44 Comments

AmetDeCrypt3 votes

because she's low ranged (melee anyway, and her only poke is a long cd low damage that's unreliable if you want to poke by bounce) mobile, very bursty, and needs to go in. single target and only burst no dots isn't truly what makes an assassin, when you think of it lots of assassins have some form of aoe and some have a dot. but yeah she's more of a teamfighting assassin than anything so long as she gets a reset.

Terozu2 votes

I'm sorry but isn't kassadin a Mage? And he's very similar just with less aoe.

AmetDeCrypt2 votes

he technically is a mage assassin. more geared towards snowballing against mages and the like. you ever play veigar into a kassadin you're going to be in for some hell as soon as and sometimes before he hits 6 because he can cancel your ult cast and is bullshit amounts of tank with just an RoA.

I dunno he's on the list of champions I desperately wish to never fight against again.

Terozu2 votes

Ok after regoing over the classification updates, she wouldn't be a burst mage, since they're more like Mage assassins, it honestly seems like she's a hybrid Assassin Battle mage based on what Riot classifies them by. She's supposed to be heavily AoE, but is melee and has to get into the enemies face like an assassin, and in exchange for her massive AoE, she gives up traditional battle mage defenses. So I guess she'd be a battle mage who's defense is her mobility.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

this is why classifications are sily imo.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Maybe this is just me, but I feel like she's a burst mage, but without the CC.

And with mobility.

That's the definition of Assassin.

Burst Mages and Assassins tread a lot of similar ground, to the point where Ahri used to be considered an Assassin instead of a Burst Mage. But the main difference is that Assassins have mobility, and Burst Mages have some form of offensive utility.

Assassins are also mostly melee, and Burst Mages are mostly ranged.

Sukishoo1 votes

Yeah, just like LeBlanc was formerly an Assassin but now a Burst Mage.

Terozu1 votes

Ok... but what about Leblanc? Leblanc and Kat both rely on setting up AoE abilities, then putting themselves in danger to make it go off. Their biggest difference is Kat has no CC. And counterwise take Kassadin, another mage, also with mobility, also with utility, but he's melee.
So does that mean if Kat builds Rylai's she's a burst mage? Because an assassin is supposed to set up a kill on a single low durability target, get in, kill them, get out. That is the definition of an Assassin. Kat is instead on a cycle type set up like leblanc, the only difference is a lack of CC. And further more, your argument doesn't make that much sense, most assassins have CC, Talon, Rengar, Kha'Zix, so on and so forth. Basically, I guess she just doesn't fit into either category. Liek AmetDeCrypt said she's like a teamfighting assassin. I just feel like she should be a Specialist character like Azir or Nidalle, or be put into a different slayer subclass. She just doesn't fit the assassin class that well, it's weird. Especially when you read her lore and you KNOW she's an assassin.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

They have CC, but it's conditional and weak. Rengar's is a skillshot, and if he roots, he neuters his damage (And Rengar's been reclassified as a Diver). Kha'Zix has to invest an evolution into a slow. Talon only has a single slow.

Kassadin doesn't have utility. He's an Assassin. The only utility he brings is, again, a conditional slow (Requires spell casts to build up), but he has a lot of mobility. Katarina has mobility and burst, and is an Assassin, not a Burst Mage.

LeBlanc has been reclassified by Riot as a Burst Mage.

Terozu1 votes

Kassadin has a slow and a silence, and he's a burst mage. And I've already realized that she's a Battle Mage/ Assassin hybrid. That's the best description for her.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Kassadin does not have a silence, he hasn't had a silence for a long time now.

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

Here is Riot's list. Both Katarina and Kassadin are under the Assassin moniker.

Terozu1 votes

He has a silence, it's just extremely short, enough to interupt channels. I will admit I was wrong, he's an assassin. Kat should still be classified as a hybrid Battle Mage due to her massive aoe damage, which is what battle mages are known for. But she should be hybrid due to being melee, having high mobility, and having to take greater risks with no death defying skills.

TruelyTrueTrueth1 votes

all assassins have to take risks

The reason why katarina doesn't have a "death defying" skill is because she has like the highest mobility in the class of assassins if you play her right of course. She can E like 10 times in one team fight considering that all things go right Unlike some other assasins katarina can go in and out in and out in and out while other assasins can go in and then out if they choose to and wait for like a couple seconds before they can go in again

Katarina is considered an assassin because she has burst and extremely high mobility; the only thing that makes her different is that she has the most aoe damage out of all the assassins that does not make katarina any less of an assassin

DO YOU EVEN KATARINA BRO?

rtbf2216514122 votes

{quoted}

I get her design is very Assassiny...

What is the question again?

Terozu2 votes

Her appearance is Assassiny. Her kit is not, it's battle magey. But with extra risk.

WzqdQsZwQA1 votes

[deleted]

Terozu1 votes

Leblanc squishy leblanc high damage leblanc high mobility leblanc snowball leblanc is burst mage.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc squishy leblanc high damage leblanc high mobility leblanc snowball leblanc is burst mage.

Leblanc high mobility.

Lol...

You do realize her W is meant to burst in and out, not run away, right?

You are wasting one of her combination skills.

Why their comment was down voted, I have no idea.

But you can't press W then another W. You will just end up back where you were. And her W doesn't bring her very far as an 'escape'.

Terozu1 votes

Yes you literally can press W then another W, it's called her Ultimate ability. And you do know why Leblanc has the meme "Dem Jukes" right? Leblanc is one of the highest mobility characters in the game.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Yes you literally can press W then another W, it's called her Ultimate ability. And you do know why Leblanc has the meme "Dem Jukes" right? Leblanc is one of the highest mobility characters in the game.

You do realize that her Ultimate W W is better used to kill, not to escape right?

That is like saying flash is meant to escape, so burn it faster.

If you are using it primary as an escape with a 30 second cool down and not doing Q + W, we got other issues.

The point is Ezreal, and other champions have mobility. If you want to go by this logic, everyone with mobility is an assassin to you.

And burst mage =/= assassin.

AD assassins exist ya know.

Terozu2 votes

I never said it was better suited to escapes. You got that from your own mind. It's a dash, it has many uses. Furthermore nothing you just said makes sense, I'm specifically saying that kat's only "Assassin" trait is her mobility/melee. But I'm also saying she's not an assassin. Also Leblanc isn't an assassin. I'm not talking about escapes or initiates. I'm talking about mobility. Leblanc is mobile, this is a fact, what you use it for is up to you. You meanwhile are spouting unrelated nonsense. Please decide what you are saying before you type. It's much more coherent that way.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

I never said it was better suited to escapes.

{quoted}

Yes you literally can press W then another W, it's called her Ultimate ability. And you do know why Leblanc has the meme "Dem Jukes" right? Leblanc is one of the highest mobility characters in the game.

k

Terozu2 votes

how is that saying its better for escapes?

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

how is that saying its better for escapes?

You can't have your cake whole while having half of it digested mate.

You responded to a post that was about escapes. Now you a feigning ignorance. Good job?

Terozu2 votes

No I responded to a post that said;

Leblanc high mobility.

Lol...

the rest of it was irrelevant nonsense that had no point.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

No I responded to a post that said;

the rest of it was irrelevant nonsense that had no point.

[{quoted}](name=Lakrosin, realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H3qrR3rP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-06T02:09:03.468+0000)

You do realize her W is meant to burst in and out, not run away, right?

You are wasting one of her combination skills.

You what mate?

Terozu2 votes

Hey look "...irrelevant nonsense that [has] no point"!

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Hey look "...irrelevant nonsense that [has] no point"!

Have fun with your broken logic.

Meanwhile, my point still stands.

Terozu2 votes

Your point is literally non-existent. You got mad I said Leblanc was mobile and said she had no escapes, and I said she was mobile. Even if your point was "She has no escapes" you're still flat out wrong, she can use her W for initiates when she has a lot of health or wants to go in, or she can use it as an escape if she's low and needs to back off, same with flash, they have varied uses depending on the situation. And your complaint that she has no escapes was completely irrelevant to the statement that she is mobile, because even if she doesn't have escapes and only uses it to initiate, that's still mobility.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Something something feigning ignorance something something.

Fixed.

Seriously, you lost the moment you tried to argue Leblanc used her W as an escape. Kalista has high mobility. Doesn't mean it is used as an escape.

Terozu2 votes

At this point you are an obstinate moron stick in a one sided argument. I'm done reading your stupidity. Bye.

Cocho1 votes

Here is what is classified as a burst mage. Using Riot's words. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Burst Mages:

  • Burst Mages aim to single out vulnerable targets by locking them down and following up with a devastating barrage of damage from range. Burst Mages struggle heavily against beefier targets who can shrug off their initial spike of damage._

This doesn't sound like Kat at all. No lockdown. Her abilities are AoE so they have some range if you really want to call it that, but then everyone is ranged lol. She wants to get in and spin in your face :P

Assassin:

  • Assassins specialize in infiltrating enemy lines with their unrivaled mobility to quickly dispatch high-priority targets. Due to their mostly melee nature, Assassins must put them themselves into dangerous positions in order to execute their targets. Luckily, they often have defensive tricks up their sleeves that, if used cleverly, allow them to effectively avoid incoming damage.

I would agree Kat has some pretty unrivaled mobility, she is melee, she does put herself into danger, and she is all about avoiding CC with that mobility.

Leblanc could fit into both obviously, but I think she fits into the first one more with her rework.

Assassin doesn't really fit for Kat because she's AoE, its more like she is committing genocide than an assassination lol. There is no subclass for that

Terozu1 votes

Like I said, her theme is an assassin, but her kit... just isn't.

Cocho1 votes

Sorry about that, I rewrote it :P

Terozu1 votes

I actually reread that entry you posted myself; it seems more like she's a hybrid Assassin battle Mage by their words. She's a Battle mage because they wreak havoc from close range with massive aoe damage on the whole of the enemy team. but she's an assassin because of her high mobility and melee range adding more risk.

Cocho1 votes

I agree with that lmao, I build her tankish half the time anyways lol. I'm playing her as both

TruelyTrueTrueth1 votes

you clearly dont play katarina

right? tell me im right or else its much worse than i think

Terozu1 votes

She's hybrid battle mage, this has been figured out and others agree with this, yes I play her, I main her, and her kit other than mobility isn't assassin like, which is why I was confused on why she was classified as an assassin under the new subclass' descriptions, the reason I called her a burst mage is because I confused and mixed up burst and battle mages, also, don't necropost, it's rude.

TruelyTrueTrueth1 votes

all assassins have to take risks

The reason why katarina doesn't have a "death defying" skill is because she has like the highest mobility in the class of assassins if you play her right of course. She can E like 10 (but you never need to E that many times even though it is possible) times in one team fight considering that all things go right

Unlike some other assasins katarina can go in and out in and out in and out while other assasins can go in and then out if they choose to and wait for like a couple seconds before they can go in again

Katarina is considered an assassin because she has high burst and extremely high mobility; the only thing that makes her different is that she has the most aoe damage out of all the assassins that does not make katarina any less of an assassin

i dont see how she can be a battle mage and if you so strongly believe that she is a battle mage can you explain it instead of just sayign shes a battle mage?

Terozu1 votes

You would already know if you read what was said in this post, multiple times. Battle Mages are very short ranges casters, with massive aoe damage, and abilities you can easily spam, and a focus on zoning the enemy, they are usually with a death defying skill(karthus, anivia). That's Kat in all ways but the death defying part. Assassins are hypermobile, high single target damage, with emphasis on getting in, killing one target and getting out, usually have stealth, and are generally but not always melee range(rengar, talon). Kat' s only assassin traits, are her hypermobilty, and melee range. She focuses on dealing massive aoe damage in small cycles and zoning the enemy team. The only thing she gives up from being a battle mage, is the ability to defy death, which she instead gets her only real assassin component, her mobility. The best classification for her kit is as a niche battle mage who uses mobility for her death defying skill, or as a battle mage/assassin hybrid. But her kit, unless you build onhit for her E, is not that of a proper assassin.

Randomonium1 votes

Assassins are defined by high burst damage, melee range and typically an escape.

Battle mages are traditionally medium ranged and deal DPS damage. Some deal AoE DPS and some deal single target DPS.

Assassins having AoE abilities is not unheard of at all so saying that Katarina having AoE makes her a battle mage is as absurd as saying that because she has a dash that also makes her a Diver. You have to look at what is the CORE defining characteristic of a class, not just some random element that one class has in common with other classes.

Katarina's job is to jump in, delete a high value target, and escape if the enemy team turns on her. That's what assassins do, not battle mages.

Terozu1 votes

Battle Mages are characterised by high aoe, dps and burst, being short ranged and magic damaged focused, who are great at zoning, and have short skill cycles, with death defying skills or passive, they are aoe focused but may have a single target spell thrown in, like Karthus or Anivia.

Assassins are melee with mobility, stealth, and are highly single target with one or two aoe effects, but it is never the focus of their kit and have fairly long skill cycles, like Rengar or Talon.

Katarina has high mobility and is melee. These are the only assassin traits in her kit.

From battle mages she has AoE burst, and DoT, she has extremely short skill cycles, is great at zoning, she is AoE focused with a single single target spell, which is usually only used for mobilty, and rarely as a damage tool.

The only thing she lacks from the battle mage class is the ability to defy death, which she trades for mobility, one of two things she gets from assassins, the other being melee.

Kat doesn't have a dash she has a blink.

Also, don't necropost, it's rude.

Randomonium1 votes

I didnt necro it, i commented because it was at the top of the boards.

You're definitions of battle mages and assassins are all wrong. Only a few battle mages have "death defying abilities" and they do not have the burst of assassins and burst mages.

MANY assassins have AoE in their kit similar to Kat's spin (Talon W, Zed E, Fizz Q and E, etc etc etc.) The only thing that make Katarina different from other assassins is her ult because she's defined as the team fighting assassin.

Like I said, you need to look at what defines a class, not random attributes that a class has. Battle mages are medium range, high DPS, low mobility. Assassins are melee, high mobility, high burst damage, frequently with a way to escape. Kat is not medium ranged, Kat is not high DPS, Kat is not low mobility. Kat is melee, Kat is high mobility, Kat is high burst damage with an escape.

Terozu1 votes

Necroposting is posting on something that isn't active over 10 days old. The reason it was at the top of the recent board is someone else necroposted.

Katrina is the only assassin who has all but one of her abilities be aoe.

My definitions of assassins and battle mages come from Riots own words. There's no arguing with Riots class definitions.

Katrina is to high dps, or at least no less so than Karthus anivia Taliyah or AS.

You're being to vague. Assassins are specifically high burst damage to a single target, Kat doesn't have that.

Battle Mages have average mobility, i.e. cass, AS, taliyah, ryze. And generally ways to defy a death. Cass' stun, AS, Ryze, and Taliyah have huge movements, Swain has spellvamp, Vladimir is vladimir, Rumble is Rumble Malzahar has suppression.

All of these characters have ways to escape.

The fact is Kat guys better into the Battle Mage class than the assassin, so she should at least be considered hybrid.

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