Riven can Q after Q forever. Can her cd starts after 3rd Q not after 1st?

dEAdbUs·Aug 19, 2015·5 votes·1,425 views

Most guides saying: don't fight Riven when she has her Q. Riven waste her Q, I jumped on her, and she already has Q. Riot, what kind of counter play Riven has in this situation? She simply keep her Q charges zoning any melee champion on lane, and she can do it forever. Because this is how her Q made. Longer cooldowns, or something else. There is must be window to attack her, because without resources endless spamming doesnt give any chances to enemy.

edit: Riven mains pls write an answer before minus, or don't minus.

46 Comments

Radnar the boldAug 19, 20154 votes

thats why I like Garen.......she can q me once, shame on me, q me twice, silence on her.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Ok, but there must be way to play other champions, not only counterpicks.

redniwediSAug 19, 20152 votes

There are many champions who can be played against her effectively, and most of them are skill matchups. With that said you should not be able to play every champion against her, as some of those matchups you will be countering yourself.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Man you're talking about matchup, while this topic is about how Riven can use Q without any chances to answer. If you have some nice examples, then say what champions can outplay this Riven's Q mechanics.

redniwediSAug 19, 20151 votes

You brought it up... And matchups have everything to do with which champions can handle the Q.

Radnar the boldAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok, but there must be way to play other champions, not only counterpicks.

list me some champs and ill tell ya how. Also counterpicking is a great way to deal with riven, as for counterplays you can do alot depending on the champion.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Wukong. Me and Riven level 4. Riven used her first Q charge. I know she can outtrade me with her CC and shield, so I'm waiting till she waste her Q. She used 2nd charge and later 3rd. I went E-Q-AA-W, just to move her away from minions so I could farm a bit. But she went full in with her Q again and killed me. What I did wrong and what counterplay I could have?

nordkingAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wukong. Me and Riven level 4. Riven used her first Q charge. I know she can outtrade me with her CC and shield, so I'm waiting till she waste her Q. She used 2nd charge and later 3rd. I went E-Q-AA-W, just to move her away from minions so I could farm a bit. But she went full in with her Q again and killed me. What I did wrong and what counterplay I could have?

Id like to help but i dont play whit wukong, have you cheked youre runes or what runes she has ? Do you always play whit wukong is he youre main

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

I'm playing many champions, but does it matter? Any champion can be in this situation. Image your main in this situation.

Project RivenAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wukong. Me and Riven level 4. Riven used her first Q charge. I know she can outtrade me with her CC and shield, so I'm waiting till she waste her Q. She used 2nd charge and later 3rd. I went E-Q-AA-W, just to move her away from minions so I could farm a bit. But she went full in with her Q again and killed me. What I did wrong and what counterplay I could have?

As Wukong, you won't be able to 1v1 Riven at any level. Best to wait for your jungler to come help you get a lead then you will have a chance to beat her once you get that lead.

Also, if you're using EQ AA W all in one trade, you're just bad.

Try last hitting a minion and if she comes at you, step back a little bit and Q AA her so she takes minion damage once she Q AA you. If you have less than 4 minions in lane at the time, you should not trade with her unless you have a lead.

You can use E for like a strategic dash away from her Q3. Bait her away from minion and if she tries to knock you up, just E to a minion.

When you W, run in a direction she won't guess. Your W won't save you as much as you think it can. It'll probably take one auto attack and she'll realize you W'd and try to follow you. If you can figure out her rhythm, like when does she like to W, you can use W to absorb her stun.

All of this is when you have the lead. Don't be afraid to trade with her effectively and by that I mean, watch minion aggro. Save your CD's. Q her, auto her, if she's going aggressive with you at this point, W to buy time, E her and Q her again. If you span out your CD's, you can Q her twice in one trade and Wukong's Q does a bit of damage if she doesn't absorb it with E.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

It's a soloQ, sometimes ganks don't happen at all. So no counterplay then? Instalose?

Project RivenAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's a soloQ, sometimes ganks don't happen at all. So no counterplay then? Instalose?

Ask for one early. Top lane is the most neglected lane to gank until dragon is down so asking for it early on is better than later when your jungler have to watch dragon.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Read what junglers think about situation that you described: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/WIoEELvv-i-dont-think-toxicity-can-be-justified

TL;DR: win your lane yourself

Project RivenAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Read what junglers think about situation that you described: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/WIoEELvv-i-dont-think-toxicity-can-be-justified

TL;DR: win your lane yourself

Winning your lane by yourself is indeed expected but there are times when you are up against your counter and winning lane isn't an option.

Read what I said, "ask jungler for a gank", not demand. Remember, League is a team game and if a gank is not imminent, then play safe.

Ganking top lane where Wu versus Riven is beneficial because a fed Wukong contributes a lot to the team and in addition, you're shutting down a Riven. Once a Riven is shut down, it's hard for her to get back up.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Project Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H2UKn1e3,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2015-08-19T18:32:50.033+0000) Also, if you're using EQ AA W all in one trade, you're just bad.

Kind words!

Try last hitting a minion and if she comes at you, step back a little bit and Q AA her so she takes minion damage once she Q AA you. If you have less than 4 minions in lane at the time, you should not trade with her unless you have a lead.

How I can Q-AA, if she'll Q-Q-W-AA-Q-AA-E then? I said, Riven has Q up always, thx to her cooldown mechanics.

You can use E for like a strategic dash away from her Q3. Bait her away from minion and if she tries to knock you up, just E to a minion.

Dash where? Usually I have enemy minions in front of me, not behind me. Or your suggestion is to Q-AA Riven, and then to E into her minions to get some more damage from them, and totally lose possibilities to run back to tower? Maybe I'm not understanding, please try to explain this trick.

When you W, run in a direction she won't guess. Your W won't save you as much as you think it can.

W has very low range, so she hits me with her AOE anyway. It helps to run away from her, but doesn't help to win trades.

It'll probably take one auto attack and she'll realize you W'd and try to follow you. If you can figure out her rhythm, like when does she like to W, you can use W to absorb her stun.

So you using my W here like last chance to run away from her? Or I can outsmart her, so she'll waste her stun and I will be able to outtrade her? Don't forget that Riven may use her W after 3rd Q, so my invis won't help much. And don't forget that my W cost lots of mana, while Riven's W cost... wait, it's free, and costs nothing. So I can't do it everytime.

All of this is when you have the lead. Don't be afraid to trade with her effectively and by that I mean, watch minion aggro. Save your CD's. Q her, auto her, if she's going aggressive with you at this point, W to buy time, E her and Q her again. If you span out your CD's, you can Q her twice in one trade and Wukong's Q does a bit of damage if she doesn't absorb it with E.

What if I don't have lead?

Project RivenAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kind words!

How I can Q-AA, if she'll Q-Q-W-AA-Q-AA-E then? I said, Riven has Q up always, thx to her cooldown mechanics.

At this point, you're talking level 3. Q and possibly AA her if you see her tries to punish your last hit. If she was to burn all that CD on you for trying to last hit a minion, she should be taken a lot of minion damage as you retreat while throwing in a Q from this combo. I'm not saying you'll win the trade but if she is to unload a full combo on you, you can't just sit there and take it and not do anything back. The point of trading is the get the most out of your enemy's attacks for yours. Just remember, don't try to last hit minion when there is like 2 - 3 of yours in lane versus 2 - 3 of her in lane, just let her push or wait for the next wave. that 2 - 3 minion equaling about 45g is not worth losing 50% hp for.

It's important to know the basics of last hitting too, to compete against Riven. If she goes to last hit a minion and kills it before you can kill yours, she'll combo you. If you can kill your last hit minion before she does, you can Q her when she last hit hers.

As Wukong, Riven's most threatening ability is not her Q's but her W. Always let her burn her CD first before you do anything to her. If you can use W only in the duration of her combo, you can win trade with her once she is done. Focus on her buffs, and you'll know if her Q is on CD or not.

Dash where? Usually I have enemy minions in front of me, not behind me. Or your suggestion is to Q-AA Riven, and then to E into her minions to get some more damage from them, and totally lose possibilities to run back to tower? Maybe I'm not understanding, please try to explain this trick.

Run to a brush and E to minion? Just saying that your E is a potential dodge to her Q3. If at this point, you're behind, run to brush and E to minion then W will be a better escape than just W and run to turret.

W has very low range, so she hits me with her AOE anyway. It helps to run away from her, but doesn't help to win trades.

So you using my W here like last chance to run away from her? Or I can outsmart her, so she'll waste her stun and I will be able to outtrade her? Don't forget that Riven may use her W after 3rd Q, so my invis won't help much. And don't forget that my W cost lots of mana, while Riven's W cost... wait, it's free, and costs nothing. So I can't do it everytime.

Using W straight up as an escape is not smart versus Riven because of mobility. Your W can

Absorb a stun.
Absorb an auto, which is where Riven's most damage comes from.
Juke a R2 if you have enough health. W and run behind her.

It's more effective if you use it offensively. For example if both of you are level 6 and she ults (most likely she'll E R to start). If you W right away when she Q W, absorbing her W, you just prevented a 0.75 sec stun where you're vulnerable. Then just R her. E auto Q after and just keep auto'ing until you feel it's too dangerous to keep going.

What if I don't have lead?

No lead, no fight. Play safe under turret. Learn to freeze lane. Wait for jungler's gank. However if you get a tiamat before she does and you're both equally farmed and level, you can possibly beat her in trades 1v1 depend if you can track her CD's.

The thing about some Wukong players that I find is that they like to E Q R or E R, totally not understanding the buff behind their E. When they E R, their E (attack speed) will expire by the time R is done.

Also, bad Wukong players always always always E and Q right away. This is bad against Riven because one of her E will absorb 75% of those damage. E, auto, and Q would hurt her more.

It takes more than just this post to beat a Riven and she is beat-able as Wukong.

Radnar the boldAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wukong. Me and Riven level 4. Riven used her first Q charge. I know she can outtrade me with her CC and shield, so I'm waiting till she waste her Q. She used 2nd charge and later 3rd. I went E-Q-AA-W, just to move her away from minions so I could farm a bit. But she went full in with her Q again and killed me. What I did wrong and what counterplay I could have?

Use the W for when she is going in for the stun or for the third Q. You would think to use it to last, but wrong. She ahs low cooldowns and the W is a high cooldown, so trick her into using her stuff on the decoy. Then Q and AA her. Use the jump only if you know you can do damage, dont use it to go in all the time! she wants that so she can easily stun and Q,Q,Q. You have to trick her into using her abilties before you use yours. plus when she wastes her Q you can do a poop ton of damage when she can do anything.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Her Q is an AOE, I'll take damage and be knockuped anyway. Whole this topic is about why Riven can't waste her Q. But overall it has a sense, thx for advice!

Radnar the boldAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Her Q is an AOE, I'll take damage and be knockuped anyway. Whole this topic is about why Riven can't waste her Q. But overall it has a sense, thx for advice!

if you need to, you can also dodge the final Q with a smart E jump to minons. It is an aoe, but you can aslo move in a direction to counterdirect where she is going.Sadly a smart riven main can cancel Q.

Project RivenAug 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Her Q is an AOE, I'll take damage and be knockuped anyway. Whole this topic is about why Riven can't waste her Q. But overall it has a sense, thx for advice!

Her Q doesn't do as much damage as you think at level 3 or 4. It's her auto's. When she's retreating, track her buff. If her passive is still up, don't trade.

nordkingAug 19, 20152 votes

Just play whit jax

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

What Jax can do vs this Q mechanics?

nordkingAug 19, 20152 votes

her q isnt that big of a deal if you know how to play against her and are sure of youre champs abilitys

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

So how to act when she used her 1st Q charge and still has 2 more, but dont use them? Lose farm? And then she'll use them, and will have another Q. Still lose farm, and wait till I'll be able to farm under tower?

If her Q isn't big deal, then write how to act in this situation.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Minuses without reasons, without answers. Thats why ppl love players who main Riven.

Lord DusteonAug 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Minuses without reasons, without answers. Thats why ppl love players who main Riven.

Because doing that adds 4-12 seconds cooldown to her bread and butter skill. It would be akin to making Karthus's Q have a 3 second cooldown, or making Talon's W and R have 2 second delays. It would utterly break the champions with how bad a nerf it would be.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Then Riven needs rework, right?

ScreamPasteAug 19, 20153 votes

Actually, no, she's one of the best designs in the game, and even if she weren't "destroy this champion, I don't like it", is not a valid suggestion.

Are you so entitled that you want her ruined for the people who play her because you have room to improve against her?

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

If she has so nice design, then it means she has healthy counterplay, right? Then please answer how to act in this situation:

I'm Wukong. Me and Riven level 4. Riven used her first Q charge. I know she can outtrade me with her CC and shield, so I'm waiting till she waste her Q. She used 2nd charge and later 3rd. I went E-Q-AA-W, just to move her away from minions so I could farm a bit. But she went full in with her Q again and killed me. What I did wrong and what counterplay I could have?

redniwediSAug 19, 20152 votes

That's not nearly enough information to figure out what you did wrong... Honestly practice will help you more than a few tips will.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

More than enough. I know her cooldowns, and Wukong cooldowns too. We both have start items, summs, but probably no potions. What else you need too know? How practice can help me in this situation? So many people wrote here but I still didnt get any answer except "instalose", but this just shows how bad Riven's design is.

redniwediSAug 19, 20152 votes

We don't know your runes/masteries, her runes/masteries, the number of minions on either side, what types of minions they were, and how much damage they added to the fight. Were any summoner spells used? Were either you or her attempting to manage the minion wave by freezing or pushing? How skilled are you at playing safely? How skilled are you at playing from behind? How well did the Riven know the Riven/Wukong matchup? Do you know how to properly respect power spikes?

A lane isn't lost during the first engagement, which is lucky because Riven gets a very high damage power spike early on. It's possible the knowledge difference between you and here was much higher than normal, and so what might look like Riven simply being strong to you could easily be Riven knowing exactly how to control the lane so it favors her.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

This is a nice theory, but I described situation pretty nice. I'm zoned, Riven has her Q always, she outtrades me anytime I'm trying to attack her (thx to shield and CC). Minions and summs won't help, because I'm zoned, so no minions. Summs cant be casted in stun or knock up. Anything else? I can farm safe, yes, but I'll be behind anyway (I'm zoned, and she freezes).

But this doesn't matter because topic is about her Q! Does it mean she can zone any champion who doesn't have silence?

redniwediSAug 19, 20152 votes

It's not a theory. It's barely a hypothesis. If you don't want to answer additional questions that's fine, just don't expect any in depth answers helping you with your problem.

And yes, it's your problem. Other people can handle Riven and her "OP" Q, why can't you?

Yosuke ApperuAug 19, 20151 votes

The problem with riven is her overloaded kit, and lack of being punished if you screw up your engage. Give everyone in the game an ad steroid, shield, 2+ gap closers, 2 forms of cc, an ultimate that deals execute aoe damage, crazy hard scaling, low cool downs, and no mana. I'm probably gonna just get downvoted even though i'm not trying to. But if you do, I want you to tell me what is health about a kit like that. For the record I know a few riven players who say that she is broken, so I want to hear your thoughts =] Also do you think she could work off of mana? why or why not? Thanks for your time!

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

My brother is D1 and when he talks with Riven mains there, they all say that they can beat any champion on lane. Even Garen, who must be hard counter to her.

redniwediSAug 19, 20152 votes

Stuff like this is why you got my downvote, and I haven't played Riven outside of ARAM since season 2.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Stuff like what? Can't read your mind, sorry.

redniwediSAug 19, 20152 votes

Apparently you don't understand when you're making generalizations intended to insult others either. More people have replied to you than have downvoted you, and you still felt the need to insult Riven players.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

What? I wrote about downvoting when there was just 1 answer, and I already had -3.

redniwediSAug 19, 20151 votes

Even so, what you wrote was intended as an insult. You can't ignore that part.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Sure I had to react like "wow, minuses great, lets ignore them! but thats ok, because I wrote this topic just because I was bored."

redniwediSAug 19, 20151 votes

Nice and mature... That's G&B though, just a collection of mature QQ threads.

dEAdbUsAug 19, 20151 votes

Ok old mister, tell me how will you react, when you had 1 answer and -3 topic. Some people that I dont know, and can't see minused me, and I don't know why. And I can't do anything with that. I could create better topic, with more explanation of problem, or with video or pics, but I'm not sure thats the reason why someone minused me. And pls write about topic, not about me.

redniwediSAug 19, 20151 votes

I would ignore it and wait for other replies, rather than insult another human being.

Also you don't get to write a completely off topic reply and end it with "please stay on topic". That's not how it works.

NessTyreAug 19, 20151 votes

Kennen Nerfs Riven only by his presence in lane.

But seriously though, you have a safe laning phase if you're not stupid and greedy like a Wood 10. You max out your W and every time she jumps on you, you stun her with your passive and run away to your tower. Try to hit 6 before her and it's gg.

You know how Riven mains love to make their opponent ragequit and cry in a corner? Well now you can give them a taste of their own medicine.

Insane burst, amazing steroid in MS and defensive stats, stun and annoying poke that can shut her down easily if you do it constantly.

Kennen main talking here. :)