Kayn's passive needs serious QoL and Clarity improvements

Jbels··42 votes·1,417 views

Kayn's passive is one of the coolest designs in the game, but when it comes to playing around the passive, it falls incredibly short.

One of if not the biggest issue is that you have no idea what you have more of in games where the enemy team has a more even split of ranged /melee champions. You get a white progress bar with no indication of how much of each type you have. I used to think the tiny circle in the middle had a small blue or red tinge to it based on who was stronger at the time, but no, it's actually a mottled purple that never changes from game to game. This is HORRIBLE for clarity. What I suggest is a split in half circle with two bars that fill up independently of each other. One Blue, one red. Simple, easy to do, and doesn't take away from his theme at all.

The next issue, the algorithm that decides which form is unlocked makes no sense. I have played games where the enemy team had 3 melees and 2 ranged, and after doing nothing but smacking melees most of the game, I decide to edge out the last of my progress on the ADC and finally fill it out. I unlock Assassin Kayn first. What? How the hell am I getting assassin form when the majority of my points SHOULD be melee? This needs to be fixed like crazy. It's super frustrating to do everything you're supposed to to try and get the specific form you want only to somehow get locked out of it for the next 4 minutes. Speaking of....

THE LOCK OUT PERIOD IS BAD. This is the last issue I have with Kayn's passive. I understand that there's a reason why the other form is locked out. Kayn or Rhaas has gained enough spiritual fortitude to completely conquer Rhaast or Kayn. That makes sense thematically. But...why does that mean Rhaast or Kayn just give up on trying for the next 4 minutes? You know what would make this waiting period smoother? Let us ACTIVELY reduce it by hitting more melees or ranged champs. You can still collect melee or ranged orbs, but instead of making progress towards the bar now, they hasten the timer and give you access to the form you need sooner.

I seriously hope you consider doing any of these three things if not all of them.

15 Comments

Maligaro Spike4 votes

Imho they should just make you able to decide both forms when bar is filled, actually, you have no control at all on your forms since you can't really decide to ignore a lane because you need different stacks.

My idea is just to make stacking a bit harder/longer but you can decide what form you need instead of having to pray god the only melee lane isn't a Darius

davmackinhos1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pants are Jinx,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GyZysEN4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-11-11T12:14:27.074+0000)

Imho they should just make you able to decide both forms when bar is filled, actually, you have no control at all on your forms since you can't really decide to ignore a lane because you need different stacks.

My idea is just to make stacking a bit harder/longer but you can decide what form you need instead of having to pray god the only melee lane isn't a Darius

Its funny you say that because I ALWAYS picture a Darius when thinking abt his passive when going for Rhaast, idk why but its Darius specifically. Hell even the cinematic splash thing has him going for the axe man, maybe its just all the red... and the spin 2 win.

Zephyrous X3 votes

And Darkin form should say Rhaast in chat don't forgetty

davmackinhos3 votes

Yo so while you are right about his passive needing to be visually redone I'll give you a lil piece of info that ironically is hard to learn because of the bad passive clarity is.

(a) So when you gain essence it actually goes into two separate pools, one for rhaast and one for blue man, so when you attacked the adc and got blue its because your blue meter hit 100%.

(b)The amount of orbs you gain is artificially gated by time. This is done to reassure that you dont gain access to one of the forms too early but ends up backfiring because you end up gaining a minuscule amount pre 10 mins and a massive amount post 10 mins, easily testable in the practice tool using a dummy.

(ab) What ended up happening is that you gained a moderate amount of rhaast orbs pre ten mins, then you attacked the adc post ten mins netting you a larger amount because of the time gating, getting you blue kayne instead.

(using imaginary numbers) If attacking a melee 7 times gives you enough orbs to gain 60% at 3-7 mins, than attacking and adc twice would give you 100% at 11.

The growth of the orb gain seems to increase dramatically every 10 mins or so. It has a purpose but the whole passive interaction is half baked and completely vague. I just hope that more ppl see this because it is GENUINELY hard to understand without workshopping it out of burning frustration and curiosity, simply because so many ppl (understandably) dont fully understand how it works

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

Yo so while you are right about his passive needing to be visually redone I'll give you a lil piece of info that ironically is hard to learn because of the bad passive clarity is.

(a) So when you gain essence it actually goes into two separate pools, one for rhaast and one for blue man, so when you attacked the adc and got blue its because your blue meter hit 100%.

(b)The amount of orbs you gain is artificially gated by time. This is done to reassure that you dont gain access to one of the forms too early but ends up backfiring because you end up gaining a minuscule amount pre 10 mins and a massive amount post 10 mins, easily testable in the practice tool using a dummy.

(ab) What ended up happening is that you gained a moderate amount of rhaast orbs pre ten mins, then you attacked the adc post ten mins netting you a larger amount because of the time gating, getting you blue kayne instead.

(using imaginary numbers) If attacking a melee 7 times gives you enough orbs to gain 60% at 3-7 mins, than attacking and adc twice would give you 100% at 11.

The growth of the orb gain seems to increase dramatically every 10 mins or so. It has a purpose but the whole passive interaction is half baked and completely vague. I just hope that more ppl see this because it is GENUINELY hard to understand without workshopping it out of burning frustration and curiosity, simply because so many ppl (understandably) dont fully understand how it works

Seriously? That's pretty shitty. That basically means you have to walk on broken glass as far as getting the form you want. Accidentally tip the ADC with your W and get locked out of Rhaast for 4 minutes? Jesus

davmackinhos1 votes

Yea Its pretty bad but on the bright side once you know how it works its much easier to work around. Still bad tho

davmackinhos1 votes

{quoted}

Seriously? That's pretty shitty. That basically means you have to walk on broken glass as far as getting the form you want. Accidentally tip the ADC with your W and get locked out of Rhaast for 4 minutes? Jesus

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Blåbæret2 votes

Kayne needs nerfs before any QoL should be considered.

Remlap12231 votes

You say that, but remember the last time a champ got nerfed before they improved his QOL? He had a winrate of 38% for three patches.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

To be honest he doesn't say they should nerf him due to that QoL change, he says he needs nerf first, THEN QoL change.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Stop giving his name a E. He is not Kanye

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Kayne needs nerfs before any QoL should be considered.

You might as well nerf Zed too then, because just like Kayn, he's only good when he's ahead.

Subject 51 votes

It might as well just be timed at 15 minutes and offer you the chance at choosing either or: the game prevents you from sling-shotting from a good gank and if you do poorly, it doesn't matter - you just get 1 kill at 15 minutes and BOOM - instant transformation. It doesn't feel like a race at all tbh, more like . . . jeez I don't even know. I practically main Kayn at this point - and I choose almost always blue Kayn.

SlashStriker1 votes

the problem for me is that I wanna play Assassin Kayn but i have to wait 4 minutes because I was able to damage only melee champions

Tacosrock1 votes

He should not receive any further changes without nerfs. The idea of making his kit even easier and more clear to play is seriously terrifying with how strong he is already. I'd be okay with this if there were some sort of reprimand.

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