As a mage why would you ever not buy morellonomicon?

Subject 5··8 votes·4,727 views

item 3165 -It's cheap -Gives CDR -Gives Mana -Gives mana on kills and assists -Shuts down healing

Literally, the perfect starting item is this. Even if you are a champion that requires item 3100 it is better because you can build it second and get even higher ratios on the thing.

63 Comments

Astôlfo8 votes

Some like Tear (cough Cass infinite E). Some needed old Rylai's ASAP.

khorney2 votes

generally you should buy tear then moro.

Astôlfo1 votes

I meant as the first back item.

Oelyk1 votes

Cough Ryze Cough

dunder kill6 votes

If you dont have mana lol

Abyssphere5 votes

Why is it a problem if Morellonomicon is the dominant starting item for mages? It's clearly because of a lack of other options - it's the only item for APCs that offers both CDR and mana sustain. Morello would still be the dominant starting item if it was brought back to its pre-update status because the defining trait in its popularity is the absence of Athene's Unholy Grail in the mid lane.

The reason Morello is even so strong right now is because Riot knew it would be the only option for most mages after the MYMU and they wanted mages to feel good about an item they had basically no choice about buying. In addition, it's a crutch for AP item totals because they took a ton off of Hourglass and Abyssal. Morello is perfectly fine right now when you consider the environment that it's in, and I don't expect Riot to take a look at it until they make an alternative to it.

LankPants2 votes

They should have done to Morello's the same thing they did to Phantom Dancer. Its statline is too good to ever give up, that's obvious, what would you give Morello's up for? Something with the same or a similar stat line with a different effect. Riot had this with the BMB Morello clones, they probably wouldn't port 1:1 into the game, but the effects are a good starting point for what Morello's like items could look like.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Well, It's also pretty overtuned. Even if we revert Athene's to S5 status, morellos would still be the go to because 100ap+20%cdr on it's own are already massive for that cost, getting sufficient mana for most mages on top of that just makes it rather stupid. However, it's ok to have that 1 overtuned item as a go to, it allows mages to be somewhat gated in lane and then transition fast into midgame, and it somewhat makes up for most other ap-items beeing a bit on the weakside atm.

Abyssphere1 votes

It is overtuned, I admit that in my post. My points are that a) it would also be dominant if it wasn't overtuned (see all of season 5 + first half of season 6, when even a stupidly over the top Rod of Ages played second fiddle) and that b) it is intended for it to be overtuned right now as it is such an essential item to the class it serves.

S5 Athene's would lose to Morello in S6 but it also lost to Morello in S5, as did every other mana item. When I say Grail's absence from the mid lane causes Morello's dominance, I don't just mean post-MYMU. Pre-MYMU Grail was really unpopular and very much a "buy it if you have to" item for a few reasons, and Morello was very dominant back then too. If Grail was brought back to mid as a more attractive item than it was in its final pre-rework iteration then there would be competition, and if there wasn't then Riot could nerf Morello to induce competition. But Grail in S5 was a poor item, and of course it couldn't compete with a purposefully over the top one like S6 Morellonomicon.

By the way, 100 AP + 20% CDR isn't that crazy in terms of gold efficiency. 100 AP is worth 2175g, then 20% CDR is 600g. So without the mana it would be an almost efficient item with two... fairly decent passives and kind of amazing/kind of meh slot efficiency. Not objectively terrible without the mana for sure, which is crazy but there you go.

Re: other AP items being on the weak side, that's both a reason why it's as strong as it is and a reason why it can't really be nerfed. When MYMU went on PBE, AP item totals were too low because of Abyss and Hourglass. Riot put +20 AP on Morello to fix the issue and that was that. Riot chose to put a strangely high amount of AP on Morello because it was the only way they could justify their nerfs to the AP on other items. It creates a strange issue where in a 6 item mage build, certain items are pulling much more weight than the others (and the Rylai's nerf will make this issue even worse) and Morello is one of the items putting in too much work because other items aren't.

To be frank it is a really stupid situation but as long as Riot are going with their "utility AP items have to be slot-inefficient and contribute no damage!" thing then Morello will have to be over the top, and that's especially true while there's no Mana + CDR alternative for mages.

Eedat1 votes

It kind of fills the 'stat stick' role for mages. Junglers get warriors, AD champs had item 3142 except it got nerfed hard, and mages get Morello

L0ve Is Blue4 votes

item 3001 item 3157 item 3027 item 3151 item 3020 item 3102 /item 3143 For my bae Lissandra

dakota saturn3 votes

No resistances.

If you are losing lane and dying over and over, morello's wont help you.

Subject 51 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GtGaKgwl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-01T20:27:15.377+0000)

No resistances.

If you are losing lane and dying over and over, morello's wont help you.

So if you are expecting to lose build: item 3001 If you are expecting to win build: item 3165

khorney2 votes

100 ap 20%cdr how would that not help u

deadeye19991 votes

because if your opponent has a lead over you you don't want to fight, you want to cs. If you build item 3001 / item 3102 against an AP opponent or item 3157 against an AD opponent you can survive longer as well as have some sort of defense against an all in.

serenity73 votes

item 3070 Anivia item 3070

Borbland2 votes

Why not both ?

Quepha2 votes

You want to start stacking a RoA or Tear. The Lost Chapter passive is more useful to you than gaining mana on kills/assists. You want defensive stats. You don't have any mana problems.

SwiftKitten881 votes

Zed , Yasuo, Talon (if he can mid now)

and that's about it...

Escheton7 votes

{quoted}

Zed , Yasuo

and that's about it...

"as a mage"

What is this? Has Wizard Garen started a mageguild?

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

"as a mage"

What is this? Has Wizard Garen started a mageguild?

... well when u face Zed or Yasuo ... you rush item 3191 into item 3157 ... not item 3165 ...

you would get item 3165 2nd

Z Statistic2 votes

But then you buy item 3165

You just buy it second [slayer-jinx-wink]

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GtGaKgwl,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-01T20:43:13.118+0000)

But then you buy item 3165

You just buy it second [slayer-jinx-wink]

well yeah, of course XD. and you pray that they aren't 5/0 by the time you complete it

Off Meta Evan1 votes

or you could just not... and you know... outplay the opponent like you're actually worth something.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

AP Zed, Yasuo and Talon OP lul

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

AP Zed, Yasuo and Talon OP lul

how stupid are you... obviously i meant when FACING them, NOT "playing" them...

Purpl3Jungl31 votes

I'm a Diana main, I tend to buy item 3165 item 3020 item 3115 item 3116 item 3285 item 3089

However Diana is a Diver and RoA is Effective on her. So if I'm having a hard lane & I know I won't be able to one-shot someone, I'll build item 3027item 3158 item 3115 item 3157 item 3116 item 3089

Also, if there are too many tanks on their team My build goes item 3027 item 3020 item 3115 item 3025 item 3116 item 3089

SlashStriker1 votes

You wont always need Morello I play AP Shaco and my mana item is either this item 3100 or this item 3025

I also got mana regen runes so i am kinda fine on mana side item 2033 this also gives decent mana regen along with health regen

without these items item 3057 item 3152 Shaco cannot farm

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

You wont always need Morello I play AP Shaco and my mana item is either this item 3100 or this item 3025

I also got mana regen runes so i am kinda fine on mana side item 2033 this also gives decent mana regen along with health regen

Shaco isn't a mage he is an assassin.

just because you use AP doesn't make u a "mage"

Nidalee is an assasin Diana is a diver Evelynn i don't even know what she is but i woudln't call her a mage

and then we have Janna who is a "support" not a "mage"

SlashStriker1 votes

Shaco is not a mage but when i build him i build AP items

barely any Janna players build AP or at least in very small amount

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

time constraints, you only have so long to get what you need and morellonomnomcon doesn't give everything. if the game was 1v1 it might be more practical

WalkingInACircle1 votes

The only thing I feel competes with it is Ludens, which is of course burstier and helps you roam faster.

catastrophicSkil1 votes

Early defensive items are generally stronger than a full offensive item like morello. In losing AP vs AP matchups item 3001 is super important or at least the item 1057 is. item 3116 is really nice to slow + HP + AP honestly i know people are crying about its rework but champs like eve and viktor and others who have Dots/ Spammable abilities are going to LOVE this item. Its cheaper meaning earlier power spikes still gives some AP and HP yes obviously late game its going to be weaker but that is the trade off

Swiftstrike41 votes

I play Brand in the mid lane and I build item 3165 really late. It doesn't really help me too much since brand actually doesn't need too much ability power to do damage. He actually needs some tankiness.

I build item 3027 first item, thenitem 3116 and item 3151. I will sometimes build item 3108 early but delay its completion until the end of the game.

My final builds look like this: item 3027 item 3116 item 3151 item 3158 item 3165 item 3135

or item 3157 or item 3001 instead of item 3165.

I almost never build item 3089 unless I am crazy ahead. Brand really doesn't need it.

Scoroct1 votes

Because Hex-cores are better than books :p Viktor

Unlucky471 votes

It's really good on azir. I used to main him before the gutting and I'd build stinger (back when it still had 50% AS) and then rush morello so I could freely spam my abilities in lane. It really is a good item.

RisenDarkKnight1 votes

If you don't need the mana there are better options. Like Abyssal/Zhonyas to give you the resists against your lane opponent, or Luden's if you want waveclear/more damage.

I agree Morellonomicon is too general right now, but you don't have to build it everygame. Also, people who build Rod of Ages will just get that instead, since they don't want to delay the 10 mins of stacking and there are better options for 2nd items.

Just Blame Jenny1 votes

Other possible starters:

item 3001 against burst mages. item 3027 for tankiness and mana. (Synergizes well with item 3191 against matchups like Zed .) item 3116 for tankiness, lockdown and kiting. item 3285 for early burst and waveclear, roaming and snowball potential. item 3003 for mana efficiency.

Most mages will still want the item 3165 eventually, of course; they do need the mana. However, some may opt for item 3027 or item 3003 instead.

Divewing1 votes

When you don't have mana

Welcome to Mage item diversity ladies and gentlemen, ADCs can deal all the damage they like with no trade off, but god fobid a Mage has the same

deadeye19991 votes

The trade off is that an ADC deals sustained damage but not much burst (With a few exceptions like Graves and Draven but they do have a trade off. Draven needs to catch his axes to keep it up, Graves has slow attack speed, has skill shots for attacks, and needs to reload. Jhin also has high burst but has the trade off that he needs to wait till hos 4th attack and needs to reload) till late game where as a mage can delete an ADC and will usually have more cc. The first part of this changes late game but by that point mana is not as big a deal any more even for the mages unless they plan on fighting multiple team fights w/o backing.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

Most mages it comes down to do you want CDR or HP (Morello's or RoA).

that's not that weird though, most adcs pick between IE or ER basically.

Catastrop1 votes

Because some prefer item 3027 like my darling Lissandra.

Sire Hippington1 votes

well, some champs prefer the tankiness from item 3001 +item 3157 + either item 3100 If they don't need much mana, or item 3027 if they do.

But yea, for anyone that can afford going glasscannon(or wants to risk it anyway), morellos is a no brainer as first item.

LankPants1 votes

Morello's has to be the perfect item right now because of the abysmal state of the majority of other AP items. Past Morello's, Void and Rylai's AP items are super niche, inefficient or just straight up bad.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

Kennen Rumble you have no idea how much i wish i could.

Seenan1 votes

Don't need it on, let's say, Annie, imo.

agbudar1 votes

depends if im on Malzahar an early rod gives me much needed HP to deal with constant poke also item 3027 after its fully stacked gives 100 ap and is 200 gold cheaper then item 3165

Ackelope1 votes

I think there is at least one special case here, that being AP Ezreal . I did a small bit of calculation assuming Ezreal is level 9 and has maxed Q and has 2 points in W, with a small poke combo of Q + W. I didn't account for AP from runes and masteries, but if I did, it would just make the difference between Lich Bane's damage and Morello's greater, because while they'd get the same amount of proportional damage increase from that added AP, Lich Bane benefits more from it due to the Spellblade passive scaling with AP as well. I didn't see the need to calculate that since Lich Bane already outdamages Morello in a small burst scenario. If you gave enough time, only using these two items, Morello would eventually reach a higher DPS since it has a higher amount of CDR given, though I believe it would take a good bit of time for that to occur, because the sheer amount of dmg that Lich Bane's Spellblade passive gives is so massive.

item 3165 : Q = 115 + 1.1(71.9) + .4(100) = 119.09

W = 115 + .8(100) = 195

Q + W = 314.09

item 3100 : Q = 115 + 1.1(71.9) + .4(80) = 111.09

W = 115 + .8(80) = 179

Spellblade = .75(71.9) + .5(80) = 93.925

Q + W + Spellblade = 384.015

After doing this, I think it is still more beneficial to get Lich Bane first on Ezreal as well as any champions that can easily apply Lich Bane and excel in smaller trades and poke combos, like a TwistedFate or something else similar, since they flat out get more damage from the item when used correctly, it would be better to build Morello after Lich if you're just talking about dmg efficienty. Meanwhile, DPS mages that cast frequently and often don't include auto attacks in combos would probably benefit more from Morello first.

tl;dr It's still a debatable thing, really, just pay attention to who you're playing and try to identify your strengths/trading style.

PS: I didn't think this would format as large as it did, my bad for not using the preview function to make this a little easier on the eyes...

Sagan Forever1 votes

Um if you don't have mana, because then it is highly inefficient, because otherwise I get it first.

Fairyfleur1 votes

AurelionSol KennenKatarina Kassadin Rumble Vladimir Ezreal (AP Ezreal)

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