Similar to what was done to the frostfang line to tone down champ being able to almost instantly get all the procs at once. I think it would be a good way to tone it down for most of the outlier champs with it without hurting the weaker/balanced champs.
YokoNomi3 votesThen I wonder if there'd ever be a point to get Black Cleaver on illaoi anymore.
DunkinNoobs2 votesBecause then it would be pointless.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesBecause then it would be pointless.
It would let you take down tanky targets slowly, instead of bursting them.
1 stack every .5 seconds or .33 seconds would be good.
DunkinNoobs2 votesYou do know that armor is balanced around Cleaver being the way it is, right?
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-23T22:40:03.233+0000)
It would let you take down tanky targets slowly, instead of bursting them.
1 stack every .5 seconds or .33 seconds would be good.
it would defeat the entire purpose of the item.
champions like 
are supposed to be able to rapidly apply the stacks by dealing physical damage in small separate instances. the entire reason it applies on spell effects was that the item is more efficient on ad caster type champions than marksmen, who would have to stack up the armor shred much slower with auto attacks.
problem is, that since cleavers introduction, theyve made marksmen like 
and 
who can use the stack mechanic just as well as bruisers, but at range.
better solution would be to give it the same treatment as mallet, and as theyve had planned for bork.
make it half effective on ranged champions.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-05-23T22:50:14.911+0000)
it would defeat the entire purpose of the item.
champions like
problem is, that since cleavers introduction, theyve made marksmen like
better solution would be to give it the same treatment as mallet, and as theyve had planned for bork.
make it half effective on ranged champions.
Stack half as quickly for ranged or pen half the armor? Because I'd much rather have the first one. Although that'd still be annoying as fuck because it would really hurt my Quinn's tankbusting abilities.
Also I'm pretty sure Darius isn't supposed to kill all your armor with one auto, there's a reason he gets passive armorpen on his E.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2017-05-23T23:15:30.311+0000)
Stack half as quickly for ranged or pen half the armor? Because I'd much rather have the first one. Although that'd still be annoying as fuck because it would really hurt my Quinn's tankbusting abilities.
Also I'm pretty sure Darius isn't supposed to kill all your armor with one auto, there's a reason he gets passive armorpen on his E.
they deliberately turned his passive to physical damage to allow him to synergize better with cleaver.
so yea, hes kinda supposed to get that 25% shred easily.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-23T23:18:10.458+0000)
they deliberately turned his passive to physical damage to allow him to synergize better with cleaver.
so yea, hes kinda supposed to get that 25% shred easily.
I don't believe you, because Darius's kit is already very good against tanks (Q is a lot easier to hit, opportunity to spam Q's, 5 stacks are more likely because you won't die before you get them and tanks usually can't outmaneuver you, massive true damage), and he already gets armor pen on E. There's no way someone looked at Darius and said, 'ok, this guy needs to shred armor and kill tanks better'.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-23T23:22:04.072+0000)
I don't believe you, because Darius's kit is already very good against tanks (Q is a lot easier to hit, opportunity to spam Q's, 5 stacks are more likely because you won't die before you get them and tanks usually can't outmaneuver you, massive true damage), and he already gets armor pen on E. There's no way someone looked at Darius and said, 'ok, this guy needs to shred armor and kill tanks better'.
just do a little bit of research. they came out and said this during the juggernaut update.
just like they increased the damage ticks on garens spin from 6 flat to scaling up from 5 to 10 so he synergizes better with cleaver.
they even reverted cleavers recipe from 
back to 
to make the item more useful on bruisers than adc and assassins, since bruisers value the health they put on the item just as much as the ad they removed, but for adc and assassins this build path and the reduced ad is a nerf, since they cant stack triple longsword into cleaver anymore.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-26T16:28:54.355+0000)
just do a little bit of research. they came out and said this during the juggernaut update.
But... why would they do that D: It really sucks that Darius hits you with a single auto and bam there goes your armor. Plus, Darius isn't the one who needs help dealing with tanks. Give that shit to Illaoi, make her W DoT or something because Illaoi gets stomped by armor stackers.
just like they increased the damage ticks on garens spin from 6 flat to scaling up from 5 to 10 so he synergizes better with cleaver.
Has nothing to do with Darius?
they even reverted cleavers recipe from
Honestly that change was a flat out buff to pretty much everyone, seeing has 100 health almost always > 10 AD. Assassins still use it, and are even tankier than before.
Erockandroll1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GrRyAQ7i,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-05-23T22:50:14.911+0000)
it would defeat the entire purpose of the item.
champions like
problem is, that since cleavers introduction, theyve made marksmen like
better solution would be to give it the same treatment as mallet, and as theyve had planned for bork.
make it half effective on ranged champions.
Not sure why they backed out of their original play with BotRK. But based on Riot's history, just about anything in regards to Melee/Ranges specific balancing is around utility and not stats, so I doubt they will consider such an effect.
But since You mentioned those two item, I should point out that Ranged still get 30% Slow from Mallet while Melee gets only 40%, and BotRK was adjusted to 6% for Ranged and 8% for melee before scrapping that option. So it seems as if Riot holds that ratio closer to 4:3 than 2:1, in the event that an item needs range specific balancing.
