Riot why didnt you just stick with the obvious midlane FQC fix of not being able to farm and proc it

RedCyclone·Jan 16, 2016·29 votes·1,736 views

Instead of continually raping the item THEN more then likely tacking this change on so we are left with a AP support item no one uses?

28 Comments

MisterHealYoGirlJan 16, 201611 votes

I mean, it was also objectively stronger than the other support items, and was pushing them out. For example, I've seen Sorakas, Jannas, and TThreshes building it more often than Coin or Shield, respectively.

RedCycloneJan 16, 20161 votes

well both of the actives got nerfed for whatever reason in the preseason patch, Talisman and FOTM should have kept the same effective active

MisterHealYoGirlJan 16, 20161 votes

I guess this was a 'two birds with one stone' approach. None of the tier 3 support items have the gold passive disabled on getting CS, so it would be weird to add that exclusively to discourage midlaners.

RedCycloneJan 16, 20161 votes

It used to, and for a good reason, and the 2 smaller frost blades have the disabled gold gain on getting CS on them

MisterHealYoGirlJan 16, 20161 votes

Well, it's the only one that doesn't interact with minions in some way (making the green item line disabled on getting CS would be stupid, obviously, and if you're CSing and have a yellow support item, it's not giving you anything). I don't necessarily support the change to it not being disabled, but I would guess that supports with AoE abilities or skillshot poke were having trouble with their spells killing minions and disabling their gold item; at the two lower levels, it's unlikely to do much unless you're deliberately last-hitting, but FQC and the levels you'll have by the time you get it make it a distinct possibility.

ErockandrollJan 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I guess this was a 'two birds with one stone' approach. None of the tier 3 support items have the gold passive disabled on getting CS, so it would be weird to add that exclusively to discourage midlaners.

Really the other items don't need it. Coin only gives you money when a minion dies that you didn't kill. and Shield actually requires you to CS, but only a few times using an ammo system.

FQC's gold is tied to enemy harass, not minions.

{quoted}

I can get that it's a little powerful right now even in supports hands, however the angle they took on fixing the problem is just laughable

1 they nerfed both Talisman and FOTM in the preseason update, some small buffs or restoration to these items would probably make them favorable for the champions who are meant to buy them 2 they are nerfing FQC in the wrong ways, midlaners are abusing it but they are not fixing why it's so abusable in midlane, such as the easy gold gain, the fact that it's a AP cdr item what are stupidly rare right now

As a support main, I would be more bummed about losing the easy gold gen. You lose flexibility about what your support can do. (And force them to stay support with support gold.) And even if that wasn't the case, your still prone to the problem if you Accidentally CS. Which is a big problem for the poke supports this items was meant to support. Yet something tells me that the GP10 isn't what Midlaners are abusing.

Also, Riot has no problem with FQC in the mid lane as long as it doesn't drown out other items. I don't think they have any plans on simply ripping it out of midlaner's hands. (And I don't think they should.) And yet it's still a bit powerful as a support item. They should balance it in the support role, and then reevaluate it's position in mid.

ZephyrDrakeJan 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Really the other items don't need it. Coin only gives you money when a minion dies that you didn't kill. and Shield actually requires you to CS, but only a few times using an ammo system.

FQC's gold is tied to enemy harass, not minions.

As a support main, I would be more bummed about losing the easy gold gen. You lose flexibility about what your support can do. (And force them to stay support with support gold.) And even if that wasn't the case, your still prone to the problem if you Accidentally CS. Which is a big problem for the poke supports this items was meant to support. Yet something tells me that the GP10 isn't what Midlaners are abusing.

Also, Riot has no problem with FQC in the mid lane as long as it doesn't drown out other items. I don't think they have any plans on simply ripping it out of midlaner's hands. (And I don't think they should.) And yet it's still a bit powerful as a support item. They should balance it in the support role, and then reevaluate it's position in mid.

well considering that the competition for FQC for midlaners is Athene's which has been a joke item ever since it got it's nerfs and Morello's who became pointless when Grievous Wounds became a niche stat there isn't much competition to it. All other Gold items got NERFED in the preseason with the coin line being hit the hardest, while FQC was the only one that actually got buffed. There is little surprise about FQC being the dominant support item when it got buffed significantly while the rest got nerfed. You lose the passive when you accidentally cs with the rest of the spellthief items with FQC being the only one who doesn't get it's passive disabled, I doubt there will be much issue if FQC also got it's passive disabled when you cs. Supports aren't getting much cs and if they do a few seconds without proccing the passive isn't going to be the end of the world

BarelyPaulaJan 16, 20162 votes

I almost want to build it on ALL supports. Excellent engage, free vision, good gold procs. It's way beyond better than every other support item.

Vistha KaiJan 16, 20162 votes

Soraka should be building Targon's.

You heard it here first, folks.

KaipopJan 16, 20162 votes

As a champion that doesn't benefit from health, no.

AbyssphereJan 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I mean, it was also objectively stronger than the other support items, and was pushing them out. For example, I've seen Sorakas, Jannas, and TThreshes building it more often than Coin or Shield, respectively.

Well the main reason nobody is building Talisman anymore is because it's trash. They gutted it in the pre-season.

OdinakosJan 17, 20161 votes

The active was the best especially for teamfighting so i was ok with having terrible stats. But now that FCQ's active is comparable in strength. Or sometimes stronger. So now either FCQ needs to be toned down or both the coin and fotm buffed. I would go with the former since i dont want to see fotm abused by bruisers/tanks. Or Ezreal. Dont ask why and how for her, she abuses every item not intended for him!

YumaS2AstralJan 16, 20164 votes

Then Riot decides to finally add the "not being able to farm" passive, then they refuse to revert previous nerfs, and after months of asking why, they give to use the same reason to why they didn't reverted Sejuani 's nerfs

KeevalroyJan 16, 20163 votes

Riot why didnt you just stick with the obvious midlane FQC fix of not being able to farm and proc it

Easy - because that would be the intelligent thing to do. But here in the balance team, we seek to promote frustration in your games by nerfing everything but the problems and buffing things that don't need it. Have fun this season guys, we're confident it's gonna be great!

PennsJan 16, 20162 votes

Because its just as broken and frustrating on supports... I mean, if even champs like Thresh or Blitz buy it pretty often, theres something wrong with it lol

RedCycloneJan 16, 20161 votes

I can get that it's a little powerful right now even in supports hands, however the angle they took on fixing the problem is just laughable

1 they nerfed both Talisman and FOTM in the preseason update, some small buffs or restoration to these items would probably make them favorable for the champions who are meant to buy them 2 they are nerfing FQC in the wrong ways, midlaners are abusing it but they are not fixing why it's so abusable in midlane, such as the easy gold gain, the fact that it's a AP cdr item what are stupidly rare right now

ZephyrDrakeJan 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because its just as broken and frustrating on supports... I mean, if even champs like Thresh or Blitz buy it pretty often, theres something wrong with it lol

you mean to say that the coin line being butchered in preseason and FotM having it's active nerfed for no reason made FQC with it's BUFFS be good? you don't say!?

the entire coin line is just laughable, it's just pure regen with an active that isn't really all that strong. Good but not worth all that gold, and more people are getting the sightstone item over FotM since it got nerfed. The only support item that actually got buffed in the preseason was FQC

OdinakosJan 17, 20161 votes

The active is great, one of the best actually. But even so the coin needs some buffs. Or FCQ toned down. I would love to see a stronger active on fotm as well.

ZephyrDrakeJan 16, 20161 votes

well coin got murdered in the preseason just for being able to generate more gold... thanks Riot and FotM got it's active nerfed for no reason in the preseason while FQC actually got much needed buffs since it was worthless before the preseason

Lucky IccyJan 16, 20161 votes

DunkinNoobsJan 16, 20161 votes

It's too good even on supports only. I've seen literally every single support champion start spellthiefs just so they could get FQC when they should really be building the other support items. Blitzcrank and Alistar should not be starting spellthiefs but FQC is so attractive that they just don't care that spellthiefs is bad on them.

Dominick DestineJan 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Instead of continually raping the item THEN more then likely tacking this change on so we are left with a AP support item no one uses?

Yeah I stopped playing Sona because FCQ is so much worse than it used to be.

Taric ftw.

QuephaJan 17, 20161 votes

disabling the passive on cs felt weird and really annoying.

JasiwelJan 17, 20161 votes

It's a super powerful item and there is little drawback to it as a midlaning immobile AP champion PURELY because it has everything you'd ever want. CDR? Check. Mana regen? Check. Disengage? Spooooky check. FREE FARM FROM HARASSING YOUR OPPONENT? Uh, why the hell wouldn't you buy it?

The problem is that it does too much for the wrong class. For Supports it makes sense because they have to push pennies. For Midlaners who have regular access to CS and already harass their opponent by default, this item is arguably the best AP item within the first 20 minutes of the game.

Athenes LuluJan 17, 20161 votes

Even with that fix, FQC as any item would still be too OP. At least compared to other AP mid items.

It's mainly the active that needs a hard nerf, the CD nerf alone is actually good, though the slowing effects should be greatly reduced to a flat 2 second 30% slow and it would still be good enough as a scouting item.

Vellich0rJan 17, 20161 votes

The point of not stopping the gold generation once you hit FQC was for the AP support mages whose poke would hit enemy champs AND kill half the minions.

RedCycloneJan 17, 20161 votes

I don't think that's much of a big deal as the game gets later on, the item still grants the most gold gain over the other support items and it was proven that it did this before the preseason patch anyway

KamaiJan 17, 20161 votes

I actually wonder if part of it is a UI issue. If you notice, the only item that Riot has running around with 2 different cooldowns is Muramana, and the second cooldown isn't a meaningful one. In this case FQC would have 2 meaningful cooldowns, and at this point, not a good way that's immediately obvious to show both cooldowns.