These fake Zoe nerfs aren't going to stop her from being permabanned.

PapaGreg21··40 votes·2,220 views

When did the balance team just stop trying?

51 Comments

DestructoDave37 votes

I dont know why they would create a champ, built on premises PREVIOUS champs have been nerfed for. Like Nidalee. She was reworked because of spear spam being annoying. Throw 100 spears at an objective, land 1, win teamfight or force enemy off objective becuase someone died or was chunked 70% from that. So why create a champ based around the same principle you have reworked champs for?

Couple that with just added junk. Like, is there really any real reason she should leave an AoE bubble on the ground after missing her CC? Why even add that to an already good ability? Should Morg Q leave a puddle after it misses? These fail-safe design decisions are terrible. You should not be rewarded for missing things.

ZapMyHeart2 votes

{quoted}

I dont know why they would create a champ, built on premises PREVIOUS champs have been nerfed for. Like Nidalee. She was reworked because of spear spam being annoying. Throw 100 spears at an objective, land 1, win teamfight or force enemy off objective becuase someone died or was chunked 70% from that. So why create a champ based around the same principle you have reworked champs for?

Couple that with just added junk. Like, is there really any real reason she should leave an AoE bubble on the ground after missing her CC? Why even add that to an already good ability? Should Morg Q leave a puddle after it misses? These fail-safe design decisions are terrible. You should not be rewarded for missing things.

I don't mind the AoE bubble IF it lasted like maybe tops of 2 seconds at max rank. She has Yasuo syndrome where the AoE lasts 4 seconds at rank 1, where she gains full benefit of zoning for fucking up to cover her ass.

Azadethe1 votes

why do you care about a ground bubble you can walk around?

Faceroll Tactics6 votes

Hmm I don't know, maybe because there's areas of the map that the bubble can reach wall to wall?

Why do we care about Viktor W when we can walk around it?

SweedishGunner2 votes

To be fair Viktor's so bad at the moment people have stopped caring about my W's. :(

Azadethe1 votes

The area was reduced in the last nerf as well as its duration. The distance after a wall was also significantly dropped. If you're walking close enough to a wall to get bubbled, you deserve the sleep. Ofc you can just have Mercurial Boots atm and her sleep will be over before she even gets the chance to Ult Q you.....

Verxint1 votes

I personally think it's fucking stupid that if you just barely dodge the ball itself the trap arms so fast you still get hit. Though the changes in the patch should at least help that

Daunt2 votes

Why should she have such a good zoning tool mashed in an already really good ability.

General Esdeath 11 votes

Because CT is an absolute moron who wants to be the guy who makes that super unique champ nobody will ever forget, even at the cost of balance.

Between the balance team and his champ designs still getting the green light, I'm not feeling this season at all.

Azadethe1 votes

News flash: Nidalee still does that, and with great success. Except Nidalee's Q doesn't take a complex setup. It just takes geometry on one skill (don't aim from the side.... aim from behind or in front, so the path opponents take is linear).

Zoe almost never even hits anymore due to the major E nerf, unless she's getting in deep where she can die. I really don't understand crying about sleep when it's now dispellable, and also gives you time to run away. She might hit her E, but by the time she needs to Paddle star, you're about 100 units out of her Q's R range.

In the meantime...... Leblanc just dominates you 3 times as often and pulls 25 kill games without some tough skill setup.

HongChongDong24 votes

There's actually 3 different "design philosophies" that they broke with Zoe. The first one is that they specifically stated that they never wanted a champion design that allowed players to make 100 mistakes but 1 success and get massive profit (Nidalee), 1 Shot level burst with no interaction (Technically this covers a large amount of champions in this meta but this came from the Assassin Update), And they stated that if possible they wanted to remove RNG from the game completely (Sion rework).

Sire Hippington1 votes

Yea, they stated that they are against RNG, yet they failed to do anything about crit, even in the adc-update which would have been the by far best opportunity, and instead they managed to add new RNG with dragons, Klepto and Zoe...Riot states alot of things just to go the other way soon after.

Arakadia1 votes

Dragons are good type of RNG. They don't suddenly change and effect the game in a way you couldn't have known seconds before.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

And they stated that if possible they wanted to remove RNG from the game completely

But then they decided not all RNG is bad and when you get fucked or elevated purely based on RNG, it is good RNG as long as there is huge icon pronouncing whether you got fucked or elevated purely based on RNG.

dunder kill21 votes

BRUH do you really think she's going to get real nerfs before she can pull off some sick #LC$BIGPLAYZZZZZ? This is your reality check

rtbf761092717 votes

{quoted}

BRUH do you really think she's going to get real nerfs before she can pull off some sick #LC$BIGPLAYZZZZZ? This is your reality check

faker is already player her a ton on stream... lcs big money incoming

Azadethe1 votes

And Faker's not pulling 25 kill games. His KDA has dropped from about 13/5/8 to about 8/4/10 since the last nerf. If he was playing Ahri or LB, he'd have 25 kill games at challenger level.

Faceroll Tactics4 votes

25 kill games in challenger Korea [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Daunt7 votes

She's not gonna leave banning phase in competitive.

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

Zoe gets an actually decent number and quality of nerfs, including removing the Gunblade drops

"Zoe nerfs are fake news spread by the evil, lying Riot!"

Hexs Fortune3 votes

Another example in the misuse of the word "Fake".

General Esdeath 6 votes

Not at all, these changes don't cover her real problem. It's only a nerf in the sense of numbers being lowered. If we recude Ahri's Q damage by 1, it's a nerf. But is it really going to make an impact?

xelaker3 votes

1+ here. I got all excited that Zoe would be decent, but not disgusting in skilled hands, but nope!

Azadethe1 votes

She's decent in skilled hands, mediocre in average hands. Try to play her instead of acting like a victim.

xelaker1 votes

I've played her kiddo, the vo is like running a angry cat across a chalkboard and I'm not a fan of stuff that spams spells like a madman (Cassiopeia Karthus Zoe ect ect.)

T4underbolt3 votes

Not enough cyber zoe skins has been sold so they just wanted to say to those who think about buying it "Dont worry this patch she is still broken as hell, we just adjust some unrelated bullsht that doesnt fix the problem of oneshoting you at lvl 3"

And that W change with no gunblade. Her W shouldnt give her any item actives so early not mentioning some of the summoner spells like tp.

Azadethe3 votes

You keep banning the champ with the lowest damage, win rate, and easiest counterplay. You keep doing that. While Nasus steamrolls your top, or Yasuo begins 1v4ing you, or Katarina or Akali or Zed go 20+ kills. That's okay. Ban someone who literally doesn't get her power spike until TWENTY FIVE MINUTES..... (You can claim she's annoying all you want, but stats don't lie: At 20 minutes, Zoe's win rate falls off a cliff until about 28-29 minutes, because that's the point in the game where team play absolutely destroys her).

greekvandaL3 votes

{quoted}

You keep banning the champ with the lowest damage, win rate, and easiest counterplay. You keep doing that. While Nasus steamrolls your top, or Yasuo begins 1v4ing you, or Katarina or Akali or Zed go 20+ kills. That's okay. Ban someone who literally doesn't get her power spike until TWENTY FIVE MINUTES..... (You can claim she's annoying all you want, but stats don't lie: At 20 minutes, Zoe's win rate falls off a cliff until about 28-29 minutes, because that's the point in the game where team play absolutely destroys her).

she spikes at one ap component just like every mage.

Azadethe1 votes

No. No she doesn't. Kits impact power spikes, and Zoe's kit doesn't just "take off" because she has a Morellonomicon or a Lich Bane. it pops off when she begins leveling W, or can use her R reliably enough to zoom in and auto attack for a 700 damage lich bane proc (which isn't early game).

Her Q is the most unreliable execute in the game (doesn't bypass minions, small aoe, MUCH shorter range than her E, meaning that most E sleeps cannot actually land self kills).

Before 25 minutes, she's basically Zigg's Q without his mines, or his bomb, or a damaging ult. After 25 minutes her AP is strong enough to get her Passive damage and W into the game reliably. Once she can short range nuke..... that's when she begins to snowball. Before that, she's easy to shut down between Q's, as long as you're not running a melee team. Before 25 minutes, she's just "annoying."

Plus, now her cc is trivial, and most assassins and AD brawlers are taking dual Magic shields through Maw and Nullifying orb, and even if they do get caught, they get tickled. Furthermore, Mercurial Scimitars are no on the rise, and it works on her now.

Her level 1 W is garbage, but that's what people keep it at until about level 13. It starts off at a 10% move speed. Tier 5 is 70% move speed! That also plays a huge role in her late game snowball. A summoner's = a very fast ghost, which allows her to do more short range harass. 10% is a joke, and yet that's where it is most of the game.

Daedric Etwahl4 votes

I ban her because she's miserable as fucking shit to play against. The RNG spell drops, the Q doing ridiculous amounts of damage with barely any items, the fucking sleep bubble.

Never once have I enjoyed playing vs a Zoe. Not once. Even when the enemy Zoe is shit it's still miserable because she hits you with ONE spell and you're done, doesn't matter how many she's missed in game already.

LF Annie3 votes

they stopped trying when they let the design team re-instate the toxic playstyle of old nidalee.

Arakadia1 votes

The balance team themselves doesn't dictate everything the design team does.

LF Annie1 votes

{quoted}

The balance team themselves doesn't dictate everything the design team does.

i had meant it as rot as a whole stopped trying when the decision for nidalee's renamed return was accepted.

Verwing1 votes

My problem is, those nerfs they did before Christmas, the ones everyone is basing her current win rate on, never actually went into the game. But with current PBE testing, they plus the new nerfs seem to be in, so I'm betting on a big win rate drop.

Azadethe1 votes

They absolutely went into the game.

E is prone to Cleanse, Spell shields, and QSS, and shortened by Mercurials.

E's windup to Sleep from Drowsy was increased from 2 secs to 2.2 seconds (I miss so damn much because of it)

E has a shorter distance after walls.

W orbs last half as long.

I don't know where you get off saying they weren't put in. Maybe you ban her every game and are blind.

7.24 Notes:

Paddle Star Paddle Star Cooldown now begins after Q cast completes, not when it begins. BUG FIX: Fixed a bug where the recast indicator would sometimes disappear when Sleepy Trouble Bubble Sleepy Trouble Bubble was cast immediately after Paddle Star. BUG FIX: Fixed a bug where the recast indicator would linger when it was recast quickly. BUG FIX: Fixed a bug where the recast indicator would sometimes experience graphical bugs as the missile reached its max lifetime. BUG FIX: Fixed a bug where Portal Jump Portal Jump occasionally failed to properly extend the range of Paddle Star. Spell Thief Spell Thief Duration of spell pick-ups from minions reduced to 20 seconds from 40. Sleepy Trouble Bubble Sleepy Trouble Bubble Cooldown refunds on champion hit, rather than against all targets. Drowsy duration increased to 2.2 seconds from 2. Drowsy maximum slow duration reduced by 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% from 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70%. Maximum travel distance after passing over a wall reduced to 650 from 800. Trap radius reduced to 250 from 290. Mikael's Crucible item Mikael's Crucible can now properly remove Sleep. BUG FIX: Fixed a bug where it occasionally stopped short when cast directly next to a wall.

Actual link: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-724-notes

Sp33d Zer01 votes

I'm confused, where is the nerf on Zoe that isn't getting patched into the game?

Daunt1 votes

I'm really not sure why they're being so careful with Zoe nerfs since every other champion was never left to be this broken for so long without any nerfs at all. I'm telling myself that it's because it's preseason so it doesn't really matter as much as it would in an actual season but it's still a joke. How does Heimer get a nerf before Zoe does? Hello?

Potchikir4 votes

ornn

Daunt1 votes

Ornn was underwhelming on release though. Zoe is just stupid with what she can bring in a game. They didn't hesitate to nerf other champions that were overperforming.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Azir reigned nearly a full season in proplay and high elo, same with the GP rework...Riot often takes their time then it comes to adressing real issues.

HR5OdeMImE1 votes

They are leaving her in this state on purpose because they want to see her in LC$.

Arakadia1 votes

Or they just disagree and think this will be enough? Even if they are wrong, there is no need for this dumb copy pasta.

Consider bringing some original ideas to the table.

lil koda1 votes

if the balance team disagrees with the whole community, i think somethings wrong

Daunt2 votes

I don't understand where people get the idea that boards are a big community. It's true that a lot of other communities want Zoe nerfs as well but i think people need to remember that boards has a very small number of people if you look at the big picture. And i can safely say that at least 95% of those people on boards have no idea about balancing the game myself included.

lil koda1 votes

where did i say anything about the boards being the entire community. the majority of players, high elo pros, low elo not so pros are complaining about damage being way too high, but not only damage, mastery trees suck, certain champs are fucked out of a tree while giving other champs too much damage. if you look at after shock and tanks doing 3/4 of peoples Hps because of it youd understand..

Arakadia2 votes

Can you show me where the entire community disagrees with the balance team? Because the boards are not at all a solid representation of the community.

Daunt1 votes

She won't make it past banning phase in LCS, at least in her current state.

Audiomancy1 votes

Ezreal.

ShaftyMegee1 votes

Is Zoe really perma banned? From what I can tell she isn't, though Leona is xD

Parmigiano1 votes

As a avid Zoe player/abuser, I am in total agreement she needs nerfs: the E was a small step in the right direction, but the extension of her star only occuring when she has fully emerged from her portal is incredibly clunky and frustrating and it's making me not want to play a champ that I have so enjoyed recently. I'd so much rather her do 1/2 to 2/3rds of her current damage than have them make her clunky as they have...

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