http://i.imgur.com/yHuZJfj.jpg
This need to be stopped. There is no way that I am going to carry 2 unranked players with LITERALLY 0% win rate in ranked.
Edit: the lv27 is a delay bug, because no one looked this person up on op.gg so the site doesn't waste resource to update this person's portfolio until someone searches him.
RogueWill3 votesUnranked people are always placed in high silver to low gold on their first game simply because that's where most of the players are. If you win or lose that game then the matchmaking is adjusted. Is nothing wrong with that mmr. I remind you that in the old days you started woth 1,200 MMR and bronze was 1300 the new tier system place everyone at least bronze so it was adjusted that you still started around that level
The Deckowner3 votesThe problem right now is these unranked players don't have the skill to match their mmr. Why does silver players need to suffer unnegatable losses because the system matches these unranked newbies with them? These players with less than 50 games played on their account shouldn't be in the games of silver veterans who climbed out of bronze.
(the exp change was stupid and greedy on rito's part, I have seem newbies with 31 normal games in my ranked games, that just shouldn't happen.)
RogueWill1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gl29mct4,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-08T23:47:12.092+0000)
The problem right now is these unranked players don't have the skill to match their mmr. Why does silver players need to suffer unnegatable losses because the system matches these unranked newbies with them? These players with less than 50 games played on their account shouldn't be in the games of silver veterans who climbed out of bronze.
(the exp change was stupid and greedy on rito's part, I have seem newbies with 31 normal games in my ranked games, that just shouldn't happen.)
Because the only way to solve it completely would be to do a hard reset, place everyone on bronze and let them climb up. At the end of each season see what was their peak and give rewards from that similarly of how it was on the beginning. You got to accept that High/mid silver is actually the average player so if you climbed out of bronze it only means that at the beginning you were below the average (what would be unranked on the old system) if you are truly a silver one lose won't change much and if they are truly bronze newbies they would keep getting demoted. Is just the easiest way to minimize loses, since if you put a truly good player on bronze 5 just because it is on a unranked account is going to make the games unfun for all people on his way to climb back to his real MMR, starting at the middle point just minimize this.
The Deckowner3 votesHigh silver is NOT the average, I am silver 2 and I am already in the top 40% of the population in the ldder. I am not saying we should throw these unranked players in bronse V, but instead in their placement they should start low with around mid bronze mmr and gain mmr while they play their placement, and at the end of their placement they get place where their mmr says. doesn't it make more sense to start at low and get placed higher after placemebt than just start at the average?
RogueWill1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gl29mct4,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-09T00:06:22.258+0000)
High silver is NOT the average, I am silver 2 and I am already in the top 40% of the population in the ldder. I am not saying we should throw these unranked players in bronse V, but instead in their placement they should start low with around mid bronze mmr and gain mmr while they play their placement, and at the end of their placement they get place where their mmr says. doesn't it make more sense to start at low and get placed higher after placemebt than just start at the average?
No... Let me make an eample, let's assume 45% of the playerbase is on silver, 35% on bronze, 15% on gold and 5% above that. It shoudl be close to actual playerbase distribution. So if people start on bronze only 35% of the population is on their respective ranking while 65% have to climb out and out of that 65%, 20% would have to climb at least a whole tier to get to their respective MMR. Instead if you start silver only 55% woudl be out of those position and only 5% woudl have to climb more than a whole tier. So, which one makes more sense to you?
Those of course aren't the real distribution but here is the real one, you can check, is somewhat accurate since only Riot has official numbers but it shoudl have some credibility.
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution
As you can see 29.2% is on bronze, 38.7% is on silver, 22.4% is on gold and 9.7% is above that....the 50% mark is on Silver 3 (mid silver) so like I said you are on the average playerbase and from an statistical point of view it makes sense for players to start their placement around your level, it sucks when you are matched with someone of lower ability than you but like I said is to minimize the damage
SwiftKitten883 votesNo... Let me make an eample, let's assume 45% of the playerbase is on silver, 35% on bronze, 15% on gold and 5% above that. It shoudl be close to actual playerbase distribution. So if people start on bronze only 35% of the population is on their respective ranking while 65% have to climb out and out of that 65%, 20% would have to climb at least a whole tier to get to their respective MMR. Instead if you start silver only 55% woudl be out of those position and only 5% woudl have to climb more than a whole tier. So, which one makes more sense to you?
Those of course aren't the real distribution but here is the real one, you can check, is somewhat accurate since only Riot has official numbers but it shoudl have some credibility.
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution
As you can see 29.2% is on bronze, 38.7% is on silver, 22.4% is on gold and 9.7% is above that....the 50% mark is on Silver 3 (mid silver) so like I said you are on the average playerbase and from an statistical point of view it makes sense for players to start their placement around your level, it sucks when you are matched with someone of lower ability than you but like I said is to minimize the damage
are you stupid?
YES most players are in silver.
WHY? becuase the stupid game PUTS them in silver when they don't deserve it. and they they stop playing ranked after they keep getting demoted before they reach bronze.
even IF we assume that most plays DO belong in silver.
a the "average" NEW lvl 30 player does NOT have the skill to be in silver. the AVERAGE "new" lvl 30 into ranked in bronze 3 or 4.
the reason silver is so freaking hard to carry out of is because the stupid system PUTS people who don't belong in silver IN silver. so the ACTUAL silver players who WORKED to climb their way out of bronze have to play with the bronze noobs until they get demoted.
which means two things.. either i lose because i get a bronze newb on my team and he gets demoted, but i lose LP as well because i got him on my team, or i carry his ass and WIN and HE gets the win as well. when he DESERVES to be demoted.
RogueWill1 votesare you stupid?
YES most players are in silver.
WHY? becuase the stupid game PUTS them in silver when they don't deserve it. and they they stop playing ranked after they keep getting demoted before they reach bronze.
even IF we assume that most plays DO belong in silver.
a the "average" NEW lvl 30 player does NOT have the skill to be in silver. the AVERAGE "new" lvl 30 into ranked in bronze 3 or 4.
the reason silver is so freaking hard to carry out of is because the stupid system PUTS people who don't belong in silver IN silver. so the ACTUAL silver players who WORKED to climb their way out of bronze have to play with the bronze noobs until they get demoted.
which means two things.. either i lose because i get a bronze newb on my team and he gets demoted, but i lose LP as well because i got him on my team, or i carry his ass and WIN and HE gets the win as well. when he DESERVES to be demoted.
honestly..you are the stupid one here. I'm giving you hard solid evidence and facts as well as a statistical analysis, you reply by insulting me and ranting without any form of prove or fact or anything else to back up your claim.
Anyway... I'm pretty sure I'm wasting words but I'll try to educate your uncultured self. Have you heard about normal distribution? Let me add a wiki link so you have some clue of what I'm talking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
Normal distributions is often used on statically analysis and social studies and basically it says that the closest you are to the average the more people they are, and the farthest you go from there (on both sides) the less points you will find. On a perfect system the peak will always be at the center, on league case with 5 tiers diamond, platinum, gold, silver and bronze (master is top 200 so can be added to diamond) the center woudl be on Gold 3, however league is obviously not a perfect system so the peak is moved towards the bronze side. However no matter how you see it, it won't peak on mid bronze, that would be an statistically abnormally and since we can assume league playerbase is a enough diverse sample we can conclude that is quite unlikely to happen.
The system has no way to know beforehand where your " average" new player skill land, so does the most logical reason and assume it would be within the biggest group instead of the variances on the sides.
SwiftKitten882 voteshonestly..you are the stupid one here. I'm giving you hard solid evidence and facts as well as a statistical analysis, you reply by insulting me and ranting without any form of prove or fact or anything else to back up your claim.
Anyway... I'm pretty sure I'm wasting words but I'll try to educate your uncultured self. Have you heard about normal distribution? Let me add a wiki link so you have some clue of what I'm talking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
Normal distributions is often used on statically analysis and social studies and basically it says that the closest you are to the average the more people they are, and the farthest you go from there (on both sides) the less points you will find. On a perfect system the peak will always be at the center, on league case with 5 tiers diamond, platinum, gold, silver and bronze (master is top 200 so can be added to diamond) the center woudl be on Gold 3, however league is obviously not a perfect system so the peak is moved towards the bronze side. However no matter how you see it, it won't peak on mid bronze, that would be an statistically abnormally and since we can assume league playerbase is a enough diverse sample we can conclude that is quite unlikely to happen.
The system has no way to know beforehand where your " average" new player skill land, so does the most logical reason and assume it would be within the biggest group instead of the variances on the sides.
.... the biggest group is in silver BECAUSE that is where the game puts them and because there is no ranked decay at that elo.
if riot wanted to make it so "new" players start with a low "plat" elo and then had diamond, master, and challenger above it and gold, silver and bronze below it. they could do it that way.
but the same point stands.. if there was no ranked decay in plat EVERY player who was placed into plat who didn't either climb or or KEPT playing ranked after reason plat 5 0 lp and then lost to get demoted would STAY plat.
YES most people are in "silver" and you consider that the "average".
its the AVERAGE because that is where you PUT people..
THAT is the point of the OP.
new players don't BELONG in silver.
especially now that its so much faster to reach lvl 30.
when i did my VERY first placement i was placed into "silver 1"
i am way, WAY better than i was then.
i DID NOT BELONG in silver 1.
right now? i DO belong in silver 1 ( or silver 2 or gold 5)
WHEN i placed into silver 1 i PROBABLY had a skill level between bronze 2. and there was NO WAY in hell i would have climbed to silver until i played for another 6 months and gotten that much better
but do u know how CRAZY hard it is to REACH gold. when your in your gold "promos" and suddenly you get some "silver 1" who just got placed there. who ACTUALLY has a skill level of bronze 2.
there are 10 promo games
if it is your FIRST season ranked
9 or 10 wins will get you gold
8 wins gets you silver 1
you STILL get low silver even if you win 4.
lets do the math here
1,2, 3 bronze 4,5,6,7,8 silver 9, 10 gold
you wanna know why silver is AVERAGE? because 50% if the time your going to get placed in silver
you could just as easily make the system 1 bronze 2 silver 3 gold 4,5,6,7 plat 8 diamond 9 master 10 challenger
and now average new player were be in plat
that doesn't mean he DESERVES to be there. it just means statistically the way the ranking system is made there is the highest percentage chance he will be put there
new players placed directly into silver do NOT have anywhere CLOSE to the skill it would have taken to CLIMB out of bronze and REACH silver.
i have been in silver EVERY season, and in about 95% of my games. at least ONE player in the game does NOT belong anywhere NEAR where is is currently ranked. and in about 30% of my games its between 3-6 players.
if you don't buy at least ONE pink ward, during laning phase, you don't belong in silver if you don't have vague idea of every champions basic skills, you don't belong in silver
(im not talking about people like
or some outlisers they u dont know what they do becuase you never seen them.. im talking basics.
you need to know that 
stuns on her 5th spell (indicated by the red bar)
you need to know that 
isn't going to hit you if you stand behind a minion... so you know.. STAND BEHIND YOU MINIONS
you need to know that when 
utli.. you STOP attacking that champ until it wears off. (well in 90% of the cases there are a few outliers like if he he cast it on someone who is about to kill your ADC and u just kill him do your teammate can escape doing the revive animation)
you need to know DONT CHASE
you need to know DON'T FEED THE 
you need to know that NOT DYING, is 10x more important than getting a kill.
you need to know if you a support. you better fucking have 
by at LEAST your third item, and normally either after the 500 gold upgrade for your support item and basic boots, or first if you feel so inclined
if you don't know these BASICS, you DON'T belong in silver
because without knowing these basics.. you would never climb out of bronze INTO silver. and if you cant CLIMB to a rank.. you don't deserve to be there.
thats it for the post...
but i going to end with this.
YES obviously they cant start EVERYONE at bronze 5 and have everyone climb from there each season.
but even most NEW players are better than bronze 4 and 5, the AVERAGE NEW player is a bronze 3-2 level by the time the reach lvl 30 and have 16 champs, NOT silver.
ScissorsNstuff2 votesthe mmr of new ranked players is supposedly decided by normals games from what I hear.
The average experienced player is about gold 4 or 3
If you are silver you need to be able to carry to advance. This seems to be fair
The Deckowner2 votesNo it isn't, your base ranked MMR has nothing to do with normal games, base mmr of unranked player ATM is 1300 which is mid silver. But with the preseason exp change that allow players to level up twice as fast these players have no idea what they are doing and should just be starting in bronze. The user jungle in that game had played 6 games of placement with literally 0%win rate yet still matched in silver all because the base mmr is too high compare to their skill level.
ScissorsNstuff1 voteseven if they started in bronze you'd be playing with the same people most likely. You'd have less bad players to shit on and thus your mmr would be lower. Maybe not by much but hell will be overflowing
The Deckowner1 votesWth are you talking about? If unranked player's mmr start in mid bronze I would never have one of these newbies in my team. No having one of these guys in my enemy team won't affect my chance of winning. I can beat silver players, just can't do it with unranked newbies on my back.
ScissorsNstuff1 votesyes, you can beat silver players who are silver because they shat on bronzies. No matter what, if you mess with the food chain its gonna come back to mess with you
The Deckowner2 votesyour logic is messed up lol. I am talking about these guys who clwarly deserve B5 has a base mmr so high that they get to play tens of games in silver elo and ruin people's games. These people can't get out of bronze for sure, they shouldn't ever be in silver games.
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gl29mct4,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-08T23:32:06.604+0000)
your logic is messed up lol. I am talking about these guys who clwarly deserve B5 has a base mmr so high that they get to play tens of games in silver elo and ruin people's games. These people can't get out of bronze for sure, they shouldn't ever be in silver games.
so how are you going to differentiate between the two? that's what placement matches are supposed to do since they affect your MMR more heavily than regular ranked matches. Those first 10 ranked games you play are made so that they either fall in bronze if they do terrible, Silver if they do decent and Gold if they do great. Lowering the base MMR won't do anything useful. The average player is in Silver so that's where they start and then get placed depending on how they did on their placement matches
The Deckowner1 votesPlacement is fucked up right now, just look at that udyr from my last game, he is currently 0/6 in his placements and he still has mid-low silver mmr(1242), where as he should have simply been bronze.
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gl29mct4,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-08T23:43:48.327+0000)
Placement is fucked up right now, just look at that udyr from my last game, he is currently 0/6 in his placements and he still has mid-low silver mmr(1242), where as he should have simply been bronze.
why? because op.gg says he has that MMR? you should stop trusting sites that have no way of getting the actual MMR, all those sites can do is give an estimate and it varies wildly. I once went from having an "above average" MMR to having an "average" MMR after a single game... THAT I WON! how can i have a worst MMR after winning a game? do not trust the MMR any site gives you
The Deckowner1 votesI am silver 2 and he matches with me while playing solo, that on its own shows his mmr is 100% silver despite 6 losses and 0 wins in placement.
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gl29mct4,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-08T23:49:51.546+0000)
I am silver 2 and he matches with me while playing solo, that on its own shows his mmr is 100% silver despite 6 losses and 0 wins in placement.
what is this even supposed to mean? if his MMR is 100% silver then what the hell are you complaining about?
The Deckowner2 votesDo you think he deserve to have silver mmr after going 0/6 in placement? Should he be in bronze?
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gl29mct4,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-08T23:56:33.875+0000)
Do you think he deserve to have silver mmr after going 0/6 in placement? Should he be in bronze?
he has not finished his placement matches so he is going to be matched against silver players since that's where the average players fall to after the placement matches ALL 10 of them if he is still in silver i would be surprised
ScissorsNstuff1 votesThere's a silver 2 there, how do you know he really deserves silver 2.. by which I mean to imply you can't say if you can beat silver 2 or not if the base MMR is changed. You have absolutely no way to tell
The Deckowner1 votesAll changes to the ranked system in previous seasons happens in preseason, what you said will simply be negated by mmr soft reset.
Chatillon2 votesThis ^
I'm in silver 3, was in my last game to get silver 2 and I get a guy who says it's his first ranked game, and when they ban yas, he says he doesnt know how to play anything else. I told him to play mundo or something that he wouldnt feed on because he would be tanky (Didnt even own mundo somehow). Guy feeds his ass off, doesnt listen to a single ping, and it's just the fact that he had no, none whatsoever, game knowledge and basically understood the basic macro of the game (break nexus) and had no idea of any other mechanics.
I just don't get why
Nautoday1 votesOh, so you can play ranked at level 27?
SwiftKitten881 votesOh, so you can play ranked at level 27?
I'm pretty sure he KNOWS its unranked.. it's like.. in the thread title..
the point still stands. a unranked player is nowhere NEAR silver 2 level unless they are a smurf in which cause they're probably plat.
a legit new unranked player is probably between bronze 4 and bronze 2. NOT silver 2
let alone the fact that it is HIGHLY unlikely they have a t3 runepage for the champ they are on...
The Deckowner1 votesIt is a ranked game, the lv27 was just a bug from op.gg, here is the link to the match history. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2261651028/227568835
The Deckowner1 votesIt is a delay but, you can go check the last game I played.
Trashlord Kayden1 votesif that person is level 27 in your game, you're not in a ranked game. have to be level 30 and own 16 champions.
The Deckowner1 votesIt is a delay but on op.gg, the person is lv30.
Urf Mode Is Life1 votesim unranked and i will destroy you in every match we meet in <3
Squishie1 votesGit gud.
KirbyCake1 votesif unranked players started at bronze, that would mean you would be bronze in this new system as well.
it really doesn't matter where you start unranked players, elo is 0 sum.
like in chess, unranked starts at 1200 elo.
the best assumption the system can make for unrankeds is that they are average skill level.
darkestkhan1 votesSo many times this... I have nothing against new players, but honestly, someone with only 98 normals shouldn't be playing rankeds with people from high-silver to low-gold. He is just going to feed and he won't even understand what he did wrong while getting flamed by his team. He won't even learn anything from the game. It is frustrating experience for both him and his team. Instead if he played with bronze players he might have at least understood what he did wrong.
