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It's just number balancing but...

deadlychuck··1 votes·319 views

Why is this mathematically ok?

Draven 7832 gold lvl 11 Ahri 8082 gold lvl 12

Draven item 3812 item 3046 item 1018 item 1001 Ahri item 1056 item 1056 item 3151 item 3027 item 3009 x6 (233 AP)

Ahri is called a burst mage, but here's some accurate math for you. Even thought it's fucking stupid.

Draven is at 1478 (total 18.7% resistance from MR) effective health at the start of a fight.

Yet, at 233 AP, the damage potential of this chick is 1085.53. Why is it that this burst mage, doesn't have the damage potential to burst down a marksmen, if that marksmen is going to be critting 346 damage crits with a 1.3 atk spd and 15% lifesteal? The marksmen doesn't require any aiming of the auto attacks and has heals for a substantial portion of the damage, so why is it that even given 100% accuracy the marksmen wins the fight?

Now i know the argument will be "yeah, but you could've gone items with more AP or gotten magic pen boots". And sure, you could go glass cannon, but if a champion's only apparent purpose is to be bursty and risks losing a significant portion of that damage to missed skill shots, as opposed to a champion who can heavily crit and lifesteal with no chance of missing an attack. But still has lower damage potential, then you've fucked up the balance somewhere.

If I had waited until the CDs to come up to try to finish him off, not only would he have nearly completely healed, he would've killed me in the CD period of my abilities easily.

#WTF

12 Comments

LadyRenly3 votes

That ahri build is bad

deadlychuck1 votes

Necessary considering it was against 3 juggernauts.

There shouldn't be that much of a power disparity between builds if that's the case, even more so considering fucked the AP itemization is and how few reasonable, not even viable, build paths exist.

Either AP balance is excessively under tuned or AD balance is massively over tuned comparatively.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

{quoted}

Necessary considering it was against 3 juggernauts.

There shouldn't be that much of a power disparity between builds if that's the case, even more so considering fucked the AP itemization is and how few reasonable, not even viable, build paths exist.

Either AP balance is excessively under tuned or AD balance is massively over tuned comparatively.

or you just suck at building Ahri, there is no reason at all for Ahri to be building item 3009 OR item 3027 . If you really needed the extra HP that badly item 3030 would have been a much better choice. Ahri has also stopped being a burst mage for a long time, she wants to wear you down and then go in for the kill when you are low enough. She doesn't go on a full HP target unless she is stupidly ahead.

Instead of blaming AD itemization why don't you actually learn to build properly first? you have two items that you shouldn't have built to begin with and two items that are not that great to stack... but nope! you decided to build a scaling item when Ahri is not the best of scaling mages and an item that offers nothing at all for her since she already is slippery enough with her Q and R. Learn to build properly. I will keep saying this as many times as i have to

deadlychuck1 votes

Except that riot has made such items necessary, because of the balance of the juggernauts. Failing to build her without the extra health and ms, even with her ult and Q, is insufficient for avoiding the champions or not dying from being caught by a single engagement tool.

If the draven had any degree of MR, fine, it would've made sense that i would need some kind of targeted counter to him. But what doesn't make sense, is balancing two classes in a way which force a 3rd class (mages) to invest gold in two completely different directions in order to be viable. Which, if it's not clear, is an impossible demand.

Then to top it off, say that i had "built better", then i'd have been fighting the draven who's healing for almost 100 damage on crit's without his Q active and then landing crits for easily 1/3 of my health. It's bullshit. Not only will you still, most likely lose a head on fight, as a BURST MAGE (apparently i need to reiterate this point because that's literally her only role), to a marksmen, but that still fails to factor in the fact that a missed skillshot (1/2 of ahri's kit), is not even reliable.

So instead say that i back off an wait for CDs, because obviously my burst damage isn't enough to kill him outright. Well he finds any target and heals for at least half of his health in the ~5 seconds it might take.

If i'm not making this clear enough yet, let me be explicit. This kind of situation of an evenly fed mage/assassin and a marksmen shouldn't be mathematically favoring the marksmen (more so in the mid game), even in the case of 100% accuracy of the mage. If you're going to make abilities skill shots, then they must have higher damage potential than targeted damage. If doing that causes a problem, then you need to reduce the damage output of everything, that way reliance on cooldowns and abilities for damage doesn't completely fuck you in just about every situation, either due to lifesteal or due to unreliable skills.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

Except that riot has made such items necessary, because of the balance of the juggernauts. Failing to build her without the extra health and ms, even with her ult and Q, is insufficient for avoiding the champions or not dying from being caught by a single engagement tool.

If the draven had any degree of MR, fine, it would've made sense that i would need some kind of targeted counter to him. But what doesn't make sense, is balancing two classes in a way which force a 3rd class (mages) to invest gold in two completely different directions in order to be viable. Which, if it's not clear, is an impossible demand.

Then to top it off, say that i had "built better", then i'd have been fighting the draven who's healing for almost 100 damage on crit's without his Q active and then landing crits for easily 1/3 of my health. It's bullshit. Not only will you still, most likely lose a head on fight, as a BURST MAGE (apparently i need to reiterate this point because that's literally her only role), to a marksmen, but that still fails to factor in the fact that a missed skillshot (1/2 of ahri's kit), is not even reliable.

So instead say that i back off an wait for CDs, because obviously my burst damage isn't enough to kill him outright. Well he finds any target and heals for at least half of his health in the ~5 seconds it might take.

If i'm not making this clear enough yet, let me be explicit. This kind of situation of an evenly fed mage/assassin and a marksmen shouldn't be mathematically favoring the marksmen, even in the case of 100% accuracy of the mage. If you're going to make abilities skill shots, then they must have higher damage potential than targeted damage. If doing that causes a problem, then you need to reduce the damage output of everything, that way reliance on cooldowns and abilities for damage doesn't completely fuck you.

build properly next time and you can come complain. Sorry but terrible trashy builds don't say anything. One champion is building properly and the other isn't. Stop trying to make excuses about "juggernauts made me build this" sorry but that's a lie! There is no instance ever for an Ahri to build item 3009 she gets NOTHING out of it. There is no instance where Ahri needs to build item 3027 it's too slow of an item for her. She does not scale well into the late game. Friggin item 3158 is more of an actual buy than item 3009 at least you are getting something useful out of it. Sorry but there is nothing to discuss here. You built poorly, got punished for it and now somehow are blaming juggernauts for this when they aren't even part of the meta, tanks are. You want HP that badly? item 3030 is way better than item 3027. You are really that afraid of slows? because that is the only reason to even pick item 3009 over item 3111. These weren't two evenly fed champions. Champion kits and what their items are make a huge difference and you are supposed to play around the strengths of the champion not be "oh i have two items and he has two items! i am going to run at him with no care whatsoever! this will end well!"

deadlychuck1 votes

you seem to be failing to even consider that buying item 3158 would've done nothing.

Buying item 3030, while giving that extra health, would've still failed to account for the massive disparity in damage, remember, MAXIMUM damage output was 1085.53.

Adding item 3030 would've increased that number to 1261.92. Still 216 damage short of his effective health, before any lifesteal, and ignoring that it would require an extra 300 gold.

Mind you item 3151 was not only mandatory against 3 juggernauts, but also is a solid item on ahri. As you pointed out.

she wants to wear you down and then go in for the kill when you are low enough.

But that also fails to consider that any poke damage is meaningless in the face of an ADC with lifesteal.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

you seem to be failing to even consider that buying item 3158 would've done nothing.

Buying item 3030, while giving that extra health, would've still failed to account for the massive disparity in damage, remember, MAXIMUM damage output was 1085.53.

Adding item 3030 would've increased that number to 1261.92. Still 216 damage short of his effective health, before any lifesteal, and ignoring that it would require an extra 300 gold.

Mind you item 3151 was not only mandatory against 3 juggernauts, but also is a solid item on ahri. As you pointed out.

But that also fails to consider that any poke damage is meaningless in the face of an ADC with lifesteal.

no it's not, poke damage is only meaningless if you let them life steal to full. As long as you keep landing your Qs he is going to eventually be low enough for you to fully engage on them. You shouldn't be trying to 100-0 anyone as Ahri specially when you aren't even building to do so. You have an incredible poor choice of boots. I never said that item 3158 is the item to build on Ahri but that it would have been way better than item 3009 you are getting CDR which your entire build lacks instead of extra MS that Ahri doesn't need and slow reduction... that Ahri doesn't care for.

You should have built item 3030 instead of item 3027 since it gives you an active that helps with your damage. You poke the Draven down, you don't let him just lifesteal to full for free and when he is reaches about 60-70% HP you all in him and kick his ass... assuming you actually land a charm. You not only built poorly, you also have no idea what to do as Ahri against anyone and blaming poor build choices on a class that has nothing to do with anything. You want to deal with Juggernauts? get item 3135

LyingOnLine2 votes

Have you tried not sucking?

deadlychuck2 votes

Go to another thread, this comment is worthless.

LyingOnLine2 votes

Worth substantially more than this thread.

deadlychuck1 votes

No, you are providing nothing, doing nothing and adding nothing.

LyingOnLine1 votes

And yet it's still worth more than this thread.

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