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SnowFall··3 votes·883 views

item 3153 item 3142 item 3035

Is it so hard for Riot to understand?

Funny thing that AP counterpart doesn't even stand close item 3116 item 3151 item 3135

26 Comments

Hoi Im Temmo7 votes

item 3068 item 3075 item 3083 I find your lack of faith disturbing.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Lets see:

For item 3068 u need to be in range. For item 3083 use grevious wounds(we need more items with it)

But item 3075 doesnt really have counterplay .

SnowFall2 votes

Lets see:

For item 3068 u need to be in range. For item 3083 use grevious wounds(we need more items with it)

But item 3075 doesnt really have counterplay .

The blueish purple combo counters first two, only adc would have a little problem with thornmail. Remember that BotRK damage doesn't affect thornmail.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

hmmm...good point on the thornmail - but the original post does not specify adc's. I'm talking about my rammus jungle :D

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

For item 3068 u need to be in range. / Since when do health and armor have range requirements? For item 3083 use grevious wounds(we need more items with it) / so, in other words, you need additional items to counter my counter? But item 3075 doesnt really have counterplay . / it will keep rammus/mundo/etc. allive long enough to either kill you or get help and kill you. and not bad damage either.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

For Sunfire i meant the passive damage,for AR counter is AR,pen.

Warmongs give high HP,but a sustained passive for champs that have HPreg in their kits(Mundo,Vlad...).But pure HP isnt really viable on to many champions,resistences are usually better.

About thornmail,dont know what to say,low counterplay.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Sunfire: perhaps, but even with armor pen, build enough armor, and you still dont care. Warmogs: true enough, but the only people trying to couter the above rather than build it are tanks and mages...and mages normally use bust and cc instead of items. Thornmail: I still dont understand. Are you saying it doesnt work, or it does because it always works?

PokladnicaZla1 votes

It does work,but doesnt have counterplay.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Sure it does. item 3071

67chrome2 votes

You can always squash the ADC before they get all 3.

Also - Kingblade and Ghostblade get pooped on by armor incredibly hard. Flat pen is very different from % pen in what Ghostblade offers. 20 flat pen against 20 armor means 100% armor penetration and true damage. 20 flat pen against 200 armor...doesn't. Having 10% life steal off of 200 damage auto-attacks means you restore 20 HP with each attack against 0 armor. Against 100 armor, it means only 10 HP per attack. 8% current HP means 4% current HP when 100 armor comes into the picture as well.

As long as your armor is proportionally larger than a squishie's armor at the same degree your health is, Kingblade largely does the same flat value per hit. Granted - it doesn't do less flat damage like flat damage vs. armor compared to no armor, but you still survive longer as a tank than a squishy against it.

It's not particularly hard to deal with such characters before they get all 3 items.

Also - none of those AD items provide defensive stats at all. Any cc at all fallowed by a solid booping over the head or some pew pew will counter such a champion pretty easily. CC, focus, teamwork, all things that can easily deal with a damage threat that can't be completely shut down with itemization alone.

deadlychuck1 votes

what happens when it's not the ADC, but a bruiser that builds them, who is naturally tanky? It's still massive damage.

67chrome1 votes

what happens when it's not the ADC, but a bruiser that builds them, who is naturally tanky? It's still massive damage.

Being melee is a huge dissadvantage.

Attack speed on melee is usually really difficult to pull off without tank items as well. It's one thing if you're Shyvana with mega-tank booping things over the head while taking some damage in return, it's another if you die in 0.5 seconds and need to auto-attack someone 6 times to kill them. A simple slow can drop your AA DPS to 0 as a melee champion as well.

Also - naturally tanky champions aren't *that *naturally tanky. 3 glass-cannon items and you're a glass-cannon regardless. Tryndamere can take infinity damage for 5 seconds? Still a glass cannon.

deadlychuck2 votes

true, but most of the melee that ever get played in any realistic fashion have more mobility than a ranged has kiting. The difference is that a naturally tanky person can build those items then a item 3143 and item 3102 and have enough tankiness to last them the game

67chrome1 votes

The average income per player in a game is 11,000. That breaks down to 1k for boots, another 1k for starting items, potions wards, T3 boot enhancements, and leaves 9k for items - or essentially 3 major 3k items.

Which makes bringing up major item 4 and 5 almost completely useless. You're not making any major early or mid game plays with them. More often than not you're not even making decisive late-game plays with them, because getting gold for killing the enemy team and pushing over Nexus Towers isn't spent unless you die.

Also - a wide range of otherwise squishy champions pick up a major defensive item in slot #4. Usually it's Guardian Angel, because Omen isn't going to do much by itself that late in the game.


As far as mobility vs kiting goes - mobility is great for 1v1 situations, and really difficult to kite out of. Mobility is so-so for team-fights, where range and cc are freaking amazing. It all depends on how many allies you have nearby for how useful those qualities are.

The win rates on Howlying Abyss certainly support this - the worse 15 champions tend to be incredibly mobile assassins, where the best 15 have impressive range and CC.

If you can find 1v1 fights as Tryndamere, sure - Kingblade Ghostblade Whisper is a pretty effective combo. If you need to fight as a team though, it's a pretty awful build.

Hoi Im Temmo2 votes

item 3075 item 3143 item 3110 THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS >:D

Seriously though, saying "there is no counter" is just qq'ing. Perhaps it is truly the BEST option - but there are always items and champion to respond with. It just might mean leaving the comfort zone of how you normally play.

deadlychuck1 votes

yes

Eapenator1 votes

quality post

Worgslarg1 votes

The only way to counter it would be lots of hp items, and lots of armor, so the last whisper does not remove enough armor for the bork to shred hp.

The ap counterpart is not the same, as most ability power champs are more burst than sustained damage, where the bork/lw excels.

LordEndarius1 votes

Hm... I've always considered Liandry's torment more of a poke item. Get the most out of the burn and all.

Anyway, yes, I get the feeling that stacking armor and health IS the counter to this. So... building like a tank.

However, since armor didn't occur to the OP, I'll just go into OTHER things that can counter anything that would use this build.

Blind, Exhaust, Stun, Knock Back, Knock Up, Fear, oh, and Focusing the ADC. Because I can't think of anyone who would build all of those who isn't an ADC. Alternatively, deny farm. That's 8.2k of gold in the top build. Probably 9.1 because most will get Berserker's Greaves before finishing Last Whisper.

bbbbates1 votes

I agree that liandry`s is a poke item. The similar AP itemization would be closer to item 3115 item 3152 item 3135

And thats basically only kindof viable on Kayle...

Also I could say the same thing about so many item combos. item 3089 item 3135 item 3128 blows me up instantly I cant react QQ item 3143 item 3065 item 3075 I cant ever kill them they just run at me and blow me up QQ item 3074 item 3072 item 3035 OMG fiora just pressed R and I died QQ

etc... The point is that at the moment there aren`t really any items that are super broken, what it comes down to is game play. You always have to both anticipate what the opponent will do and react to it. Thats the point of the game

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

easy counter is item 3089 item 3128

you cant tank vs this item combo because those items exist to counter tanks on the other hand if its too good onn you you can just but trollmail and simply forget that adc exists

items are rly fked up atm

Elemon1 votes

I feel like item 3116 isn't the counterpart to item 3153, but instead the one to item 3022...

deadlychuck1 votes

It's just a combo of items that interact well together, that's not to say every time has an exact counterpart.

also item 3116 = item 3142 in this case. Youmuu's gives move speed instead of slowing.

Teddie1 votes

It's subjective on the champions using each of these items. A champ with a naturally high health pool doesn't need the beef that Rylai's provides, etc. (Also I think Nashor's Tooth is a more fair comparison to the Ghost Blade in terms of AP items)

deadlychuck1 votes

Another thing to note, is that just about everyone who uses the AP combo tends to also need mana to get use out of the items. So while they do give survivability through health, which the AD ones lack, that doesn't make them equal, it makes them worse at doing their job. This is why AP champions need to dedicate to AP items, but AD bruisers can build a purely tank item item 3143 85% of the time. The thing which keeps ADCs from doing the same is the need for crit strike, so in that case they are more balanced.

Riot seems to have a design philosophy which means AP champions lack natural tankiness, so almost no AP items are prefectly optimized for Damage. Marksmen being the main DPS are very item dependent, with weak kits, meaning that they have to invest money into the ability to double the damage of the auto attacks. Bruisers/Fighters have insanely powerful kits, meaning they can build fewer items to reach the same levels as Mages or Marksmen, and then the ability to build extra specific counter items. Which is fine, until the power of their kits compared to the power of the kits of Mages and Marksmen is such a large gap, that they don't even need the extra itemization, but they still have it anyway.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

item 3153 item 3142 item 3035 Is it so hard for Riot to understand?

Funny thing that AP counterpart doesn't even stand close item 3116 item 3151 item 3135

How are those three items the ap counter part?

item 3116 = ap version of item 3022 item 3151 ' only simularity with item 3142 is penetration is one of the stats and item 3135 is the only one that translates from one to the other?

and further, why would an ap character build the ap version of ad anyway? the point is to play different champions with different play styles, not replace each item with the "counter part"

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