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About Those Karma Buffs - Riot Can We Talk?

SilverSquid·12/4/2019, 1:56:18 PM·50 votes·17,893 views
Mark Yetter on Twitter

TL;DR at the bottom!

In patch 9.19 you nerfed Karma’s Q ratio from 60% to 40% and claimed it was due to her toplane performance. This killed midlane Karma nearly immediately, because that's the lane that actually built considerable amounts of AP. Toplane Karma was abusing her base damages and free damage from Items like Iceborn Gauntlet or runes like Shieldbash. Unsurprisingly she survived until Cleptomancy was removed last patch. Now Karma is played 100% support, according to op.gg

However, instead of doing anything to make Top Karma more healthy, to make Mid Karma viable, instead of thinking about what put Karma into this sutiuation, you focus on buffing the most boring part about Support Karma? There is no reason why she CAN'T have her Q ratio back, right? If this buffs Mid Karma back into relevancy, fine.... right??? There is no way it can become suddenly too good for top Karma, since she doesn’t build that much AP anyways. And if this buffs support Karma, great! You wanna buff her anyways! Karma’s damage tends to fall off lategame, creating a rift between her early game playstyle (alternating damage and shield) and lategame playstyle (when Q and W turn into tickling excuses to vomit out more shields).

If there is anything that Karma players unite (and there is not much tbh), it’s that they like flexibility and freedom of choice. They wanna choose their lane, playstyle and mantra. And you seem to want to force her into bot, mantraing only E, which even contradicts the fantasy implied by the recent Phoenix Video you made. Building AP becomes increasingly unviable and the heal is both too selfish and scales with the wrong stats to be useful for Support Karma, the only Karma you apparantly support.

But I don't wanna be mean or join those nay-saying conspiracy seeing cynicists who believe you straight up want to kill Karma. I believe you still care about her as a whole, so I wanna provide you with constructive suggestions for Karma's issues:

Fixing TOPLANE Karma

Tank Karma is cancer, I get it. The issue is her heal ratio, that scales WAY too well with tank items. Spirit Visage alone doubles her effective healing, while a full AP or support build only increase the healing by 10-20%. This. Is. Absurd. Introduce a FLAT healing that scales slightly with AP and strongly with being low HP. This keeps it an emergency heal and resistances relevant, but makes stacking health not as broken. It makes the heal a better option for midlane Karma and less abusive on toplane Karma.

Your own empoyee NeuroCat’s suggestion for her passive could also help at stopping people from abusing the heal. Or mantra in general.

Fixing MIDLANE Karma

Karma’s damage is bursty and unreliable. If her RQ was ground targeted (think Lux' or Velkoz' E) Karma could more easily guarantee landing her damage where she intends to, instead of having it randomly blocked by indecisive minions, random clones or accidental shaco boxes. In turn, the projectile speed could be slowed, making it more fair to dodge at max range. Because dodging an ability feels better and is healthier for the game, if both player's skill is more involved than random chance. It incidentally also puts more importance and agency on the second part of RQ, instead of being all about the first explosion like today.

Alternatively, having damage on all mantras would give Mid Karma options, instead of being forced to mantra Q only, to not forgo most of her damage. The bonus root on RW is not needed, unreliable and nearly never truly used. Shieldbomb is heavily missed. Reimplementing the damage she had would solve so many issues.

Fix SUPPORT Karma

Karma is often treated as an enchanter, but in actuality she only has 1 enchanting ability: her E shield. If her W allowed her to give benefits to her allies, by linking to them, she would move closer to actual enchanters (Lulu has 4 ways of enchanting allies). Simple resistances would naturally combo well with her shield. If they scaled with AP and gave Karma benefits too, it would motivate Toplane Karma to build AP and be functional, instead of stacking resistances and ignoring half her kit. Since it only lasts for a short time and can be interacted with, it would create windows of opportunity for opponents, that are clearly communicated. It also makes sense on a spell that wants Karma to stay in range.

Fixing MANTRA

Mantra'd abilities should scale with mantra levels, not the base spells. If mantra is supposed to be an option at all times, and not hyperscale at others, what ability you level shouldn't as strongly influence this decision or turn some decisions into noob traps.

There is also the notion that having mantra every 10s in lategame should be the way Karma works, but I disagree. It too makes balancing mantra close to impossible. I have seen what Karma can do with 3 Cloud Drakes and Ultimate Hunter and it's NOT fun for the enemies. Despite Karma generally underperforming. Having a champion be weak, but explosive during certain setups is not the way you create healthy niches. This passive ought to be kept in check, maybe the way NeuroCat wanted it to, maybe by being nerfed and moved to her mantra, opening up some chances for more flavour in the passive slot.

What Do You Think?

So this is what Karma needs imho, not brainless shieldbuffs that ignore most of her identity. Do you agree? Disagree? Have ideas yourself? Let me know!

_ TL;DR_ I think the upcoming Karma buff is stupid, it focuses on support Karma only The recent Q ratio nerf has gutted Mid Karma and Top Karma died with Clepto My Suggestions:

  • RW's heal should scale better with AP and worse with tank stats
  • RQ's needs to be less random but easier to dodge OR Karma needs all mantras to deal damage like before 5.10
  • Support Karma needs more options to support her team, resistances on W could provide that!
  • Mantra effects should mainly scale with mantra, not basic spells.
  • Passive should be either be nerfed & moved to Ult OR be adapted like RiotNeuroCat proposed.

118 Comments

Warden Karma12/4/2019, 2:09:28 PM15 votes

However, instead of doing anything to make Top Karma more healthy, to make Mid Karma viable, instead of thinking about what put Karma into this sutiuation, you focus on buffing the most boring part about Support Karma?

I would add that support Karma isnt very healthy too (as soon as it gets strong the shields are nerfed, it offers not much interaction, its just backline spamming).

The biggest issue current Karma has is that her kit and identity is a mess. Most importantly the build/role dictates the Mantra you choose instead of the current situation, making almost all decision making non existent. Each Mantra should offer something for damage, surviability and Utility/support, instead of being separated (RQ is for damage, RW fo surviability and RE for Utility). I agree that W also needs an ally option.

She is lacking a real theme and visuals: where are the twin dragons involved in her visuals? Only her Mantle of decorum and her passive Icon are clearly featuring them. Her Kit doesnt support the twin dragons (no indicating visuals etc.), nor the Spirit mage (kit doesnt really feel like that, also visuals).

CaptainAntiHeroz12/4/2019, 2:04:48 PM11 votes

two words

SHIELD BOMB

FelixFurry12/5/2019, 4:20:36 AM5 votes

I have always loved playing Karma mid, and when I saw they were nerfing her Q ratio, I knew it wouldn't do anything to counter her top lane because the reason you stated, you don't abuse her ratios when she was played with Klepto and tank items. Now she is really only a mid lane niche pick at best, and every other time just a troll pick.

I think in order to fix Karma, she needs changes not only to her kit, but also AP itemization. The update early last season did absolutely nothing to change the itemization, Morellos just turned into Ludens and Liandry's just turned into Morellos. Every mage or AP assassin takes the same item set and this makes it difficult for champions who are played differently from other mages to specialize. Karma and LeBlanc are functionally and kit-wise different, and they should have different itemization options available to them that help them do what they are supposed to do (Defend or Burst) and specialize in those areas. But you will see both of them build Ludens/Morellos/Zhonyas every single game. Support items like Ardent/Athenes shouldn't be the only options available, and even then be incomparable to regular mage items.

She is apparently one of Riots poster girls but they can't even give her the decency of a working and functioning kit.

HP Crookshanks12/4/2019, 2:45:39 PM5 votes

Q AP ratio nerf should be reverted and her healing should scale with AP instead of HP.

Jenivie12/4/2019, 9:13:36 PM5 votes

i'll just be over here still waiting for a mini VGU for her......someday

alekzu12/4/2019, 5:39:10 PM4 votes

How long are we going to keep repeating the same things? I don't think that Riot hates Karma but I don't think that they care either. No one can hit me with the "they care because she wouldn't be getting a buff". The only reason she is getting a buff is because she is getting a skin and that is what Riot cares about. Not Karma. Not her theme. Not her issues. These can be pushed aside until one day a Rioter decides that he/she likes Karma and maaaaaybe he can squeeze a little bit of his/her free time and do some work on her.

But still, I really hope that Riot will see our concerns and they will think about it.

PzyXo12/4/2019, 3:37:59 PM4 votes

Let's be Honest, if Karma E R Q your ass as a squishy boi you're dead. Isn't that little bit OP? PS : That's my opinion mods, not a deathwish. Read carefully

excelsheet112/4/2019, 9:40:46 PM4 votes

I feel like people like playing her as a solo laner than a support. That's what the champion balance should reflect

CyberPhobic12/4/2019, 8:43:49 PM3 votes

Keep

Your fucking champion

Out of my toplane

Saelon12/4/2019, 9:43:04 PM2 votes

They only want Karma to cast her E. Aphelios UI is the first step to make Karma only have two abilities, her shield and mantra shield.

If they actually cared about Karma or her playerbase then they would rework her again, this rework was such a giant failure and it is clear that they have absolutely no intention to fix their mistake

Morbys12/4/2019, 4:19:08 PM1 votes

Riot has been moving away from champions being able to fill multiple roles so this change makes sense. They are pigeon-holing champions to fill one role as long as it doesnt affect the specific role they deem it should be in. So make competent suggestions as you like, but it isn't going to change Riot's shortsighted stance on the matter.