Unpopular Opinion: We shouldn't have Pink Wards on a trinket or SS

DrugsForRobots··16 votes·918 views
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/1b/LivesByProxy_VisionInterplayLoop.png/revision/latest?cb=20160709033250

Countering invisibility needs to be more than challenging than pressing a button and gaining a 1000 radius AoE of True Sight at instant speed, no travel time, no setup time, and at a ~400 casting range to boot. Heaven help us if the things were still going invisible!

There seems to be this sentiment in the community, as evidenced a number of Boards posts in the past few months, that players want a way to place Pink Wards without sacrificing an item or consuming an item slot. This is a valid concern, but the functionality of Pink Wards - what I just described above - is crippling to the users of invisibility, precisely because it functions the way it does. (Making Pinks more fair for stealth may be as simple as giving the Pinks an activation delay upon placement. Riot has creative people, I have faith in them.)

Riot knows this. They know that implicit in item 2043's functionality is that it can be used as a combat consumable - functionally a substitute Oracle's Elixir. This is why they've removed it as an optional trinket upgrade. CertainlyT has touched on how wards are intended to be tools controlling territory, providing areas of relative safety, and acting as insurance to ganks. They actually really do care about stealth.

  • Personally, I want to see Pink Wards (and any other ward constructs) occupy the trinket slot, overriding the use of your trinket until you've placed the ward. In my mind, this emphasizes that Pinks are part of your overall strategy, demanding planning and preparation ahead of time (strategy), while making it clear that trinkets are for quick-access, on-the-fly vision use (tactics.)

Here's the other big issue with having Pink Wards accessible from item 2049: it makes Pink Wards less unique and interesting in their own right. Riot's decision to make Pinks last forever and have more health and regen health, at the cost of being visible and vulnerable, is an amazing design. It makes Pinks their own thing, an item in its own right. Consider something like the Long Sword. How much more boring would Infinity Edge be if its stats where just +60 AD? (Six Long Swords.) But Riot hasn't done this - they've given IE its own identity and special characteristics. Likewise, by removing Green Wards, they've given the SS line it's own identity - as the preeminent way of placing wards.

That said, Xypherous hits on something when he calls wards the fantasy of placing 'sight sticks'. Getting sight is fun, scouting is fun, knowing you see someone but they don't see you is fun. To that end, we have to send the right message and let Riot know that the visual metaphors, the variety of expression, the uniqueness of each instance of vision and stealth, is something we not only want, but believe the game needs.

For all our sakes.

Shaco


This is part of a series of posts I'll be making in the coming days as I fear Riot will do something drastic like remove certain champions' stealth altogether, or go with some kind of standardized version of 'kinda half see' the stealth champions. Here's hoping for a brighter tomorrow.

  1. A Shaco Main thinking about Warwick, and why Warwick's update is crucial to the Vision Game

  2. Daily Reminder & PSA: Stealth =/= Invisibility

  3. Xypherous calls wards 'sight sticks' and says something about them 'feels off' - and he's 100% right

22 Comments

Marshbouy4 votes

11/10 post.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

Thanks. I'm trying to have faith in Riot, but I still worry. Riot, please. X.X

LadyRenly3 votes

how are we supposed to counter stealth late game? Playing with 5 items? That is incredibly unfair.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

Effects like item 3092 are much better for stealth and the way to go IMO, as the way the item works allows for counterplay (the ghosts have travel time, and there are only two of them, for example.) Also, I'm not advocating for Pink Wards to be removed or anything, on the contrary. I think Pink Wards occupy an important design space, just that they could stand to not be an instant speed counter. And in the main post, I talk about how Wards could occupy the trinket slot until placed.

And ideally, IMO, each instance of stealth would come with it's own tell-tale signs and audio clues. It would make needing a specific champion counter pick or a specific counter item not strictly necessary.

Astôlfo5 votes

Or you could just get Sweepers. You don't necessarily have to hit them. All stealth abilities are fairly short and are all on squishy targets that excel only in 1v1 cheese picks really, with the exception of Twitch.

If it's late game, you should be sticking together, which'd deter them from coming in the first place. And seeing Twitch coming is more than enough to move out and get away.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

True, but consider:

If we had more tools, be they trinkets, summoner spells, items, certain champion abilities, all of the above, stealth and invis would be 'weaker' meaning that the stealth champions could be afforded some nice QoL buffs and extra utility (in the form of vision specific mechanics, among other things.)

Eedat2 votes

Is this thread copy and pasted? Could have sworn I've seen it before. Especially since we haven't had pink wards on trinkets in a long time lol

dunder kill1 votes

I know that specific picture has been used 1000 times

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I've used it on a couple of my posts before. I'm the one who made it.

I keep linking to it in my posts because I think it shows something fundamental about the vision game - the way the different axis or pillars interact with each other, with detection and denial being underdeveloped areas that are just as crucial to the vision game as stealth, sight, and true sight.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I don't think so, since I just wrote it.

I have made posts about the vision game before that may be similar to this though. I'd be shocked to find anyone else talking about this stuff, because I've looked and it seems like no one is. :(

Eedat1 votes

I dunno man. The title itself is taking about the pink trinket wards which have been gone for awhile now. Plus, I know for a fact I've seen that picture multiple times

Eedat1 votes

Yeah thats the source but I've seen it in many threads too

DrugsForRobots1 votes

Other people have made posts about Pink trinket upgrade and Pinks from SS, but almost all ways the posters are asking for those things. My post here is about how we shouldn't have Pinks on a trinket or SS, which I've seen no one say, hence my title: Unpopular Opinion.

LatetotheRace2 votes

Could we allow more things to have true sight then? Like... summoner 14 Jinx's Zap . Illaoi's Test of spirit. Just to name a few.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I would not mind it if it was clear when the enemy has True Sight of you. That Evelynn pointed out how certain effects in the game grant True Sight, but the icon is the same as the regular sight icon. A little QoL love across the board wouldn't hurt either.

I also think they should give certain champions (Evelynn Nocturne Teemo ) Nearsight as a means of counteracting True Sight built into their kit. They would have another tool that gave them a way to outplay True Sight, meaning there could be more True Sight and detection options!

  • I think the case is strong for a Nearsight ulti on Evelynn , as it emphasizes her affinity for the dark - and what's more intimate than being alone in the dark together?
  • If Nautilus is the embodiment of CC, Nocturne should be the embodiment of DARKNESSSSS. Nearsight, and clever use of the Fog of War and overlays, gives players the feeling of being in the dark. Perhaps Nocturne's Q could apply his Ulti's Nearsight to his prey? What if his Shroud of Darkness made him invisible? That would give him 3 ways of playing with vision in his kit, the same as Shaco.
  • Teemo's Blind could be Nearsight with its own quirks and merits, like Quinn (who incidentally has 2 ways of playing with vision inherent in her kit). And it would compliment his passive stealth (the Nearsight lasting long enough for him to go invis) and combined with his Shrooms would give him 3 ways of playing with vision.

Tons of possibilities!

LatetotheRace1 votes

"a way to outplay True Sight" I don't even like those words being in the same sentence.

Revali1 votes

Ignite used to have true sight. kled Q & E grant truesight along with illaoi E and jinx's zap.

LatetotheRace1 votes

They all used to grant true sight. Not sure why they changed that though.

PiVoRx1 votes

You know what? I dont give a fuck. Rengar Vayne Khazix LeblancShaco As long as those shits exist, then as long should be easy way to counter invisiblity. Nerf those cancers then we can talk about denying invisiblity.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I have been advocating for what could be called 'tell-tale signs' and audio / visual clues inherent to these champions. That way sharp players can pick up on them, and not be totally helpless against them, or need to rely on specific champion counterpicks and items.

Tyto Mors1 votes

{quoted}

You know what? I dont give a fuck. Rengar Vayne Khazix LeblancShaco As long as those shits exist, then as long should be easy way to counter invisiblity. Nerf those cancers then we can talk about denying invisiblity.

i dont get it, what are you trying to point out? vayne, kha and lb all have very short invis's, and yes vayne and kha can use theirs multiple times, on their own accord, lb cant. rengo invis is a quite long compared to others, while shacos displaces him and allows im 4 secs invis. plus both have a visual for outplay, you just need to pay a little bit more attention for shacos.

plus when talking about invis, the fact that you dont mention eve or twitch, pretty much the two who probably spend most time invis due to the length and it not being an ult, is quite saddening. do you even know what happened to them? they had a mini rework just to change there invis mechanics. these two use to embodied invis, you had to buy pinks against them, no choice. eve didnt have to worry about being seen by people to close, and twitch could be bot and walk out of your vision, and for a 50 seconds(maxing your invis) he could be bot, in your jungle, mid or even top if he had mobi boots. the counter play? if you didnt play them right, you die in a second.

but thats me just being sore little bitch over twitch's mini rework. i used to go 35/10/10 on average with twitch. i miss those days.

EDIT: this post ended up doing nothing about what i was replying to........mb

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