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The reason games are almost all one sided stomps.

The thigh guy··2 votes·1,361 views

Okay. So first blood is just 400-450 gold right? WRONG!

You get 400 gold from first blood minimum. Then you get 2 waves of cs advantage Then you get 2 waves of exp advantage. 400 + 240 = 640 gold and then xp. Okay. That’s pretty good. You know, that’s a healthy lead. If it was a cannon wave you basically get a 2 long sword lead on your opponent. That’s pretty good.

Then rito came in and tossed in turret plates. So now you get ALL of that. And then at minimum 2 turret plates of gold. Totally another 320 gold.

That’s a 960 gold lead from a single kill. One kill. 1000 gold.

Now I know what people are going to say. “But they will have a bounty if they keep snowballing!”

And my response is… who cares? They have such an immense lead on you now, that you need atleast 2 people to kill them. So let’s say your jungler ganks you and you’re top and you collect that juicy bounty.

Hope it’s worth it, cause assuming you didn’t get counter ganked and feed them another 1200 gold, the enemy just went botlane, kill both of them in a 3v2, took 3 more plates and a dragon.

Yes. Early leads should be rewarded. But 1000 gold for killing someone ONE TIME WHILE EVEN is a bit much don’t you think?

16 Comments

GonahtanuGepardi4 votes

You are not going to get a 2 wave lead from first blood, not gold-wise and not xp-wise. You are also not going to get 2 turret plates. 1 at maximum and that only if you are in bot lane or if jungler helps you get a plate and you had already the wave under the enemy tower when you killed him. Turrets other than bot turret are reinforced so taking plates early takes too much time and with short death timers it's pretty much not even ideal to stay for plates.

So, in short, your whole argument fell apart due to lack of game knowledge.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

You are not going to get a 2 wave lead from first blood, not gold-wise and not xp-wise. You are also not going to get 2 turret plates. 1 at maximum and that only if you are in bot lane or if jungler helps you get a plate and you had already the wave under the enemy tower when you killed him. Turrets other than bot turret are reinforced so taking plates early takes too much time and with short death timers it's pretty much not even ideal to stay for plates.

So, in short, your whole argument fell apart due to lack of game knowledge.

Oh really? Because last I checked turret plates melt like butter. Especially if you have demolish.

GonahtanuGepardi1 votes

Better check again then.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Better check again then.

Nah. Experience is the best way to find out. Between demolish and minions if you aren’t getting 2 turret plates you are trolling.

ChaosReyn1 votes

I'll have to contend that.

Between demolish and minions, it's possible to get 2 turret plates. But the state of the lane at the moment you got first blood heavily impacts your numbers. Your scenario is pretty much a picture perfect top lane scenario - you kill them for FB while they're trying to freeze lane on their side, and proceed to royally shit on their base. Their jungler doesn't show (or both junglers start fighting each other when they both started pathing towards top) and you get your 1000 gold.

While technically the numbers are the same at bot (technically a little more at bot), they're split between two people, and if you get your dream scenario there, then with a tank support that runs demolish, you can sometimes push for 3 plates. (about 1300-1400 gold, but split between two people about 900/500 in total) Before we go too far past here, I'm probably wrong on my numbers, I didn't bust out my calculator, I'm sick and you would honor me with a quick death if my numbers bring me dishonor.

My main point is that what you're describing is a perfect scenario. If, for example, you killed me under your tower, and I had a decent wave still, I have a decent chance even without teleport to make it back to lane before you can claim a full tower plate. If my jungler comes up and covers, you may get even less. If your jungler comes, they start eating your exp and gold which may mess you up later in the xp game.

Would you be trolling in any of these situations then? Or would you accept that you will not always pull away from first blood with 1000 gold, but sometimes only about 650 and some exp?

GonahtanuGepardi1 votes

So you are just choosing to be willfully ignorant and delusional. You said that the experience is the best way to find out, well i have more experience, knowledge and skill than you.

Not to mention i created a scenario in the practice tool where i tested this out to confirm my knowledge (which is the difference between people who improve and those who don't). I played garen (used him because he has a pretty good wave clear with e and he is one of the champions that could use demolish), I assumed I solo killed the enemy at level 2 when the minion waves met at the top lane, I pushed as hard as i could and i tried to make as much damage to the tower as possible by having demolish and other runes to make it as easy as possible to take those plates. I managed to take HALF of a plate before the enemy would have arrived back to lane assuming they wouldn't have used tp. If they had used tp, i wouldn't have been able to even get the demolish off. Top and mid towers are reinforced for the first 5 mins which means they take 50% less damage. It's the biggest reason why taking plates alone is impossible early after one kill. That experiment alone was enough to prove your point to be invalid.

Don't make shit up again if you ever want to be taken seriously.

Dynikus4 votes

What actually happens: you get first blood, push in the remaining few creeps of the wave, then back, getting a few cs difference and spending that 400 gold from first blood.

Eybdoog3 votes

To make matters worse 1300 gold advantage early is more powerful than 1300 gold advantage at any other time. And there are no real comeback mechanisms unless enemy brain farts.

Maths 1300 gold = 40 ad Jhin base ad at level 3 = 70 So roughly 60% boost in power early

Jhin ad later in game around 500 so 40 becomes around 10% increase in power. Same item. More valuable early. So mistake early = game over. Mistake later = slap on wrist. The more I play this game the more flawed I realize it is. Why was I naive enough to believe it could replace viewership of actual competitive sports. There’s a reason no one watches chess... it’s a boring turn-based game based on memorization. That’s essentially all this game is it just has cool animations to go along with it

GonahtanuGepardi1 votes

Mistakes later have different downsides than mistakes early and are more devastating. A death later on means a long respawn timer, which means you are actually losing a lot and you can potentially lose the entire game off of it. You do not lose the entire game by making a mistake early. Sometimes you do, but those cases are extremely rare.

Not to mention that 1300g lead is very dependent on if it means an item completion in the later stages like a deathcap, which is far more powerful than just a bf sword in the early game. And as it has been proven by other comments here already, that kind of lead doesn't come easily. It basically requires the enemy to int.

Eybdoog1 votes

I'll concede that a 1300 gold lead specifically for a death cap gives you about 4 minutes of considerable power advantage, but the 1300 gold lead early snowballs into something much larger much easier than later.

Gaffes later in the game are only truly costly if games are close to even. We could argue this all day it's best to agree to disagree.

Edit: Gaffes

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

Who the hell takes that long to get back into lane after first blood? This is a total exaggeration.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Who the hell takes that long to get back into lane after first blood? This is a total exaggeration.

2 waves is 30 seconds. You de realize this right?

GonahtanuGepardi2 votes

2 waves is only 30 seconds difference in spawn time, not in actual clear time. If you kill the enemy in the early game when the waves arrive at the mid point of the lane, the enemy is back alive about the same time as the next wave spawns. That's how short the respawn times are and that's why it's good if you can even get a one wave lead since you have to be able to clear the wave and then the turret has to kill all of the creeps for you to even get a lead. If they have tp, there is practically no lead outside of the first blood kill and in some match ups it doesn't make any difference.

BoRnToKiLL6661 votes

except kills dont mean anything, i had 12-0 junglers solo throw games then think its their teams fault. for example, my 12-0 lee sin feeds the streak to their core player at a crucial time (Around baron), enemy take baron, and split push with a huge lead and end the game with baron. This actually happens in diamond games since junglers only care about kills but not about objectives (baron, tower, dragons). i dont even think about a feeding score anymore but more about when they die, id rather have a 0-9-0 who is trying to win and helps teams and doesnt die at crucial times than a 12-0 who continiously throws lead and dies at objectives and solo losing games Yuumi

Sirsir1 votes

You don't get two wave leads from one kill? Not if it's super early. You shove a wave in, maybe two, then back. While you're backing and walking back to lane your opponent gets waves. You get about a wave, and you might not get plates. Maybe one, probably not 2, and absolutely never 3 without jungler assistance.

preternatural1 votes

at the end of the day it's jgl diff

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