Changes to Conqueror on PBE. Better or Worse? You Decide

Forhonor321··3 votes·4,265 views
2/7 PBE Update: Tentative Balance Changes

Changed to:

"Attacks or spells that deal damage to an enemy champion grant 3-15 Adaptive Force (based on level) for 3s (8s for melee). Stacks up to 5 times. When fully stacked, heal for 10% of damage dealt to champions and convert 10% of that damage to True Damage."

from:

"Entering combat generates one stack every second for the next 3.9 seconds. After reaching 4 stacks, your next basic attack against an enemy champion consumes all stacks to grant 6 − 35 (based on level) bonus Attack Damage for 3 seconds and converts 20% of your damage to champions to true damage for the duration. All stacks will wear off after 3 seconds of not entering combat. Melee champions refresh the bonus damage duration by triggering combat effects against enemy champions."

Main list of changes I noticed:

  • Changed bonus Attack damage to adaptive force
  • Overall increase to damage gained based on stacks: (3-15) to (15-65) total Adaptive force, if I'm doing the math right (correct me if I'm wrong)
  • No longer refreshes for Melee champs, is always a duration but melees are longer
  • True damage conversion cut down by half (20% to 10%)
  • Now heals for 10% of that damage you deal within the 3 or 8 second window
  • Has to be attacks and spell damage against champs, no longer build up from minions and then charge/dive in

So, this is a change overall, but because I have no idea how this will affect the game right now unless I try it on PBE, I can't tell if this is a buff, nerf or general balancing.

Discuss below on what you make of this.

31 Comments

Paroe2 votes

... This looks broken asf. 3-15 at one stack. 15-75 at five stacks. And at five stacks you get 10% damage vamp and 10% of your damage converted into true damage.

This is fervor of battle with healing and true damage. Thats BONKERS. I like the direction sort of, but still...

iiGazeii1 votes

I don't think it's gonna be AS bonkers, but it definitely makes the rune a lot more attractive for champions that aren't toplane fighters. I could see anybody from marksman to skirmishers to battlemages picking this up.

The adaptive force number there is for AP. For AD, it would likely be in the vicinity of 1.8-9 AD per stack, to a max of 9-45 bonus AD.

There's also the requirement to hit champions. You need to stay in champion combat for an extended duration, especially if you're ranged. It's not like the old Conqueror where you could just hit minions, wait for your true damage conversion, then jump in. You need to be actively engaged with your opponent for 3-6 seconds before you even get the healing/true damage.

I'm excited to try it out. I can totally see me taking this on Xayah, Kai'Sa, and Swain

Titanium701 votes

Thought about Kai'Sa and Kog as well.

But Swain? I don't know. Nice Lategame Fantasy - but I think it will more feel like playing without a Keystone for 20 minutes. ^^'

iiGazeii1 votes

I dunno. Swain likes extended trades and teamfights. His whole kit does damage, and he fights at close enough range to land autos.

Just imagine reactivating your ult at max stacks. 10% of THAT being converted to true damage and healing you at the same time, with an extra 75 AP to boot?

The thigh guy2 votes

This doesn’t fix the problem. The problem was such an easy fix. All they had to do was make it not stack on minions and only champions. Boom. Problem fucking solved. But no.

PowerOfDrainAge1 votes

Which one stacks on minions? Conqueror? If conqueror needed you to be in combat with champs for 4s before having a keystone, then bb keystone-gg teamfight. Fights hardly last more than 5s.

This version of Conqueror is absolutely GREAT but I do admit they have to work on its numbers a bit. Probably the AD it can grant is a bit high and the healing may also be a bit high.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Which one stacks on minions? Conqueror? If conqueror needed you to be in combat with champs for 4s before having a keystone, then bb keystone-gg teamfight. Fights hardly last more than 5s.

This version of Conqueror is absolutely GREAT but I do admit they have to work on its numbers a bit. Probably the AD it can grant is a bit high and the healing may also be a bit high.

Both do at that point. But current conquerer just needed to not be stackable on minions. Suddenly it doesn’t have 100% up time in lane auto winning 70+% of lanes for (Insert ant bruiser here).

And yes. Fight don’t last long. Partially because this stupid rune has a 100% uptime. This partially fixes that problem. If tanks can be tanks again, then teamfights last more than a blink of the eye.

Killer of Night91 votes

It look like a better version of DTF which include both aa and spell. i think it's op on item 3151 user, quite viable (stronger than now) on bruiser and very strong on adc (10% extra lifesteal). I think it's a bit too strong in my opinion. Gonna test it Tomorrow but if it work like it's suppose to be, it's too convenient even on ap.

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer of Night9,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GZ8xIrLA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-08T00:26:29.337+0000)

It look like a better version of DTF which include both aa and spell. i think it's op on item 3151 user, quite viable (stronger than now) on bruiser and very strong on adc (10% extra lifesteal). I think it's a bit too strong in my opinion. Gonna test it Tomorrow but if it work like it's suppose to be, it's too convenient even on ap.

Oh gosh. If it procs on DoTs im going to be a happy ex-malzahar player.

Titanium701 votes

Nah it won't - they can't be that stupid! xD

Although first thing that came to my mind was Cassiopeia - and that will work without a doubt!

[sg-ahri-1]

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Nah it won't - they can't be that stupid! xD

Although first thing that came to my mind was Cassiopeia - and that will work without a doubt!

[sg-ahri-1]

It does say damage is converted and healed. But wel have to see about whether or not DoTs maintain the proc or not. They shouldnt, but even still a malzahar with E and rylais would be hard to escape from. Might even be worth it to take celerity then.

Titanium701 votes

AH you were talking about the true DMG! Thought you were wondering about DoT being able to stack it similar to item 3151

Well once you get it stacked it should also convert Item- and DoT- DMG to TRUE. Getting/Keeping it stacked is the problem so.

Fízz v21 votes

I like how at least it cant be prepared on minions in lane anymore, I think that interaction is stupid af (same goes for Grasp but its not as impactful as Conq).

This looks fun on tank fizz tho hehe xd

PowerOfDrainAge1 votes

Yea Conqueror stacking on minions was a dumb mechanic but it couldnt be removed because otherwise champs that used it wouldnt have a keystone. AA-ing or throwing spells at champs is the right choice. The true dmg being lowered is the right direction as well. I trully love the healing part but I feel it has to be a bit lower than it currently is (already tried it on PBE, feels meaningful), 8% should be fine.

Radiant Seraph1 votes

I mean, DPS mages now have a Keystone I guess... but Cassio's fucking nuts already, maybe she'll need some gutting after this...

Forhonor3213 votes

They already nerfed her this patch and if this does go through, then I just seeing this as problematic for her and many, MANY more champs. I just don't know what Riot is trying to do with this keystone anymore.

xDogMeatx1 votes

is it a nerf or buff?

Forhonor3211 votes

That's what I want people to discuss. I think overall it's a buff as it's now available to more champs, both AD and AP but while the true damage is cut in half, you're now healing and getting way more damage stat increases, like old fervor. The only difference that I can see is that it only procs on champs, which can be a nerf when you think about it along with the no refresh for melee, but overall still is feeling like a buff.

xDogMeatx1 votes

will it negatively effect jugger types like yorick?

Titanium701 votes

Ok, that looks cool. There will be some problem champs (as I said in another comment Cassiopeia was the first thing in my mind when reading this effect)but it's nice to no longer get jumped on with a fully stacked conqueror - this alone will fix alot of issues people have now.

The 8 seconds might be a little to much. You're pretty much zoned from CS as long as it's fully stacked after a trade and 8s are alot!

Ralanr1 votes

I really don’t think it needs sustain.

PowerOfDrainAge1 votes

I dont think a straight nerf is the right direction either. I like the healing part, just needs a lower value. I also think that single spells or attacks that deal more than 500 damage will not benefit from the excess damage because that would mean Darius (and Garen) will be way too strong with it.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

I really don’t think it needs sustain.

I think this is one of those few times I disagree. I think, with some ranged restrictions, the sustain is better than keeping the true damage. The sustain encourages and helps with extended trades more than the damage conversion, still giving fighters some strength over tanks, and would reduce the amout of true damage floating around that, with this change, anyone could use.

Raven is Alice1 votes

Lower the duration from ranged or make the additional full stack bonuses melee only and it is a step in the right direction since it will be built up in combat instead of building it up on minions and all-inning. Current conqueror only has limited uptime on ranged for a reason.

Titanium701 votes

Mh curretly the 8s on Melee feel alot more problematic than the 3s on range. (5-6 feel more appropriate) PTA exists and works simialr and should be the better choice for most rangeds I can think of right now.

On My Kill List1 votes

its good for fighters but it proccing off spells is going to break cassiopeia so hard. riot should make it work like only in combat and not give adaptive force. sure that might make it forced to only ad fighters but ap champs really do not need another fun toy because they will inevitably get it nerfed. ( looking at teemo and cassiopeia abusing this really really fcking hard)

On My Kill List1 votes

i think that the only way riot can salvage it is if they remove all the nice benefits other then the adaptive stats for ranged. so basically ranged should not be getting both the healing,the increased dmg,and the true dmg conversion. if i had to say they should remove the healing from ranged and true dmg conversion while letting melee keep it that way it won't be abused by them. they can still pick it for the stats but they won't get anything else and it'll be harder for them to proc.

PowerOfDrainAge1 votes

I'd actually say it's better if they remove the healing part for ranged champs and a bit of adaptive force. The true dmg should be a reason to pick this among others, for anyone. The healing should also be lowered to something like 8%. The rest seem in line and is a buff on junglers who used to rely on Fervor like udyr and Shyv.

On My Kill List1 votes

ok after testing it out in a custom game it's going to be 100% broken. i don't get what riot is doing here. conqueror now just invalidates tanks but if this goes through it will just end up being quickly nerfed because of ranged abusers. i do not get it. ranged champs are already amongs the strongest class in league of legends. they do not need more broken toys to play with. every ranged champ that can abuse this is going to get massively increased win rates. swain does not need increased healing dmg against tanks and damage in general,cass does not need this. twitch does not need this. this is a bad idea and will do same thing deathfire touch did. get a bunch of already ok champions who are good with said rune over-nerfed to compensate for the increased power then when the rune itself gets nerfed riot won't undo the previous nerfs to them leading them to an even weaker state then before.

PowerOfDrainAge1 votes

The direction is right, the numbers need tuning though. This makes the rune pretty good on forgotten junglers like udyr and shyvana (on-hit version) and not just on laners. It's a pretty fine buff for Ryze who rly needs one.

So, I already tried it on PBE on Udyr jungle specifically. It's very good and I love it. Just that AD it gives should probably be lowered and thus make it a rune that u take for other purposes than just raw ad. The healing should probably be lowered a bit, idk.

More from Gameplay

More by Forhonor321