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will demolish, font of life and shield bash ever get addressed?

Critmaster Garen··27 votes·12,727 views

were two month into preseason, and riot hasnt even aknowledged that they put 2 highly niche runes that are only usable on a very small amount of champions in resolve 1 and effectively forced almost every resolve user into the only universal rune left and picking demolish.

can we have some actual options in that tree?

overgrowth is still hot garbage and nerfed compared to season 8, for every champion that buys a single health item.

while were at it, why is celerity still a thing? no one wants this rune. how many mages or spellcasters in general who would want into sorcery are there even with movement speed boosts in their kits? buffing the rune by 2% doesnt change that its practically impossible to even use for most champions in this game. congratulations, the 3 champions Hecarim MasterYi Warwick who might think about taking it, might think about it a little bit more before picking something else.

just give us a 3% movement speed stat shard and replace celerity with something useful.

if you just keep making runes that only synergize with a few specific champions, instead of making a system of generalistic runes that allow most (ideally all) champions some actual options to chose from within the same rune path theyre picking, the rune system is never going to be statisfying.

i will repeat this again. despite the fact that boneplating was hated for its popularity in season 8, its probably one of the best designed runes in the new system. because it doesnt depend on the champion youre playing, if its broken or horrible.

29 Comments

Infernape8 votes

Tbh I feel like most of the non keystone Resolve runes need reworking or replacing (from a tank/juggernaut perspective). They basically pick the same runes time and time again.

Font of Life is barely used, and Shield Bash is used on those like Shen but even then Shen would probably rather have Demolish to have some form of split push threat so he can use his global ultimate. So most opt for Demolish as you said.

Conditioning takes far too long to come online (especially with how fast paced games are nowadays), Second Wind is good to take against poke like Teemo, but Bone Plating helps reduce some of the overkill damage in the game in lane and is the most picked by a huge margin.

Overgrowth is unnoticeable unless you're playing Nexus Blitz or ARAM, Revitalise is basically used on supports that take Guardian or opt into Resolve as a secondary tree, and Unflinching is just kinda shit (even more so when you could just get Legend: Tenacity or build Merc Treads). So of course the tanks/juggs would all straight up take Overgrowth.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Tbh I feel like most of the non keystone Resolve runes need reworking or replacing (from a tank/juggernaut perspective). They basically pick the same thing runes time and time again.

Font of Life is barely used, and Shield Bash is used on those like Shen but even then Shen would probably rather have Demolish to have some form of split push threat so he can use his global ultimate. So most opt for Demolish as you said.

Conditioning takes far too long to come online (especially with how fast paced games are nowadays), Second Wind is good to take against poke like Teemo, but Bone Plating helps reduce some of the overkill damage in the game in lane and is the most picked by a huge margin.

Overgrowth is unnoticeable unless you're playing Nexus Blitz or ARAM, Revitalise is basically used on supports that take Guardian or opt into Resolve as a secondary tree, and Unflinching is just kinda shit (even more so when you could just get Legend: Tenacity or build Merc Treads). So of course the tanks/juggs would all straight up take Overgrowth.

i think conditioning (it got better with extended lane phases), second wind, and boneplating are the only good resolve runes currently, and the only row that feels balanced.

youre making a situational pick, if you want to invest into a generalistic mid/lategame resistance power spike, sustain against poke, or resilience against frontloaded burst, more than you pick a rune that is broken on your champion and useless on others.

any champion who wants to opt into resolve can pick either rune. health and/or resistance items are available for every class, plus the flat bonus makes conditioning even good even on champions that dont build many resistances.

but the other runes are actually really shitty. overgrowth could have been decent, if it gave its % bonus every 120 minons instead of only once.

unflinching should have given us some sort of way to mitigate displacements. even if its just 0.5 second displacement immunity on some sort of universally available trigger. or it should give us a stacking slow reduction and tenacity for every individual cc were getting hit by in a fight, as a counter to heavy cc stacking and permaslowing with items like item 3116

font of life and shield bash shouldnt even be a thing, since they only interact with specific champions and not with item builds or playstiles.

i think nullifying orb should be a resolve rune that scales with base stats, considering that its a defensive rune and doesnt interact with spells.

Sire Hippington6 votes

Basically this, though i disagree on one thing: Revitalise! It's a very underated rune that has alot of value for about anyone with a shield or selfheal, which are most tanks and juggernauts, and it paris great with triumph, second wind and grasp. People seem to forget that it also affects any selfinflicted healing and shielding inclouding regen and lifesteal.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-01-02T19:38:22.482+0000)

Basically this, though i disagree on one thing: Revitalise! It's a very underated rune that has alot of value for about anyone with a shield or selfheal, which are most tanks and juggernauts, and it paris great with triumph, second wind and grasp. People seem to forget that it also affects any selfinflicted healing and shielding inclouding regen and lifesteal.

i mean, heck the reason why inspiration is riots most interesting rune path is not just because the runes are more interesting than stat power.

but theyre also usable by literally any champion in the game.

every single inspiration rune can get picked up by every champion and have almost the same benefit (except for klepto which still favours ranged champions).

this is what makes runes like demolish, second wind, boneplating and even conditioning well designed runes. the only requirement to make them scale is to build health (except boneplating which scales with level), which every champion who wants into resolve does anyway.

runes like aftershock, shield bash and font of life are bad design, since they only interact with specific champion kits.

overgrowth and unflinching are good ideas, theyre just too weak.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I think Font of life is ok, as i procs of any CC, and there are VERY few champs that don't have that, and even then you can built items to get a slow. The main issue with FoL is that it doesn't offer anything for you're self, whic basically disqualifys it for sololaners, and for only beeing team based the reward feels a bit meager, especially since only AAs triger it so melees and mages often struggle getting the buff aswell...

Though i agree, most runes are to specific in their restrictions or have to big abuse cases to be balance around all champions, which leads to runes not really beeing choices.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-02T20:17:33.168+0000)

I think Font of life is ok, as i procs of any CC, and there are VERY few champs that don't have that, and even then you can built items to get a slow. The main issue with FoL is that it doesn't offer anything for you're self, whic basically disqualifys it for sololaners, and for only beeing team based the reward feels a bit meager, especially since only AAs triger it so melees and mages often struggle getting the buff aswell...

Though i agree, most runes are to specific in their restrictions or have to big abuse cases to be balance around all champions, which leads to runes not really beeing choices.

font of life is useless for solo laners, and only proccs on movement impairing effects. thats why its so niche.

you only consider it on the 2 or 3 support tanks in this game. Leona Alistar Taric

i agree, that it would need more selfish power, but id prefer if it was just entirely replaced tbh.

what if font of life did this?

font of life entering the fountain instantly restores all your health and mana, and grants a shield for 20% of your maximum health

the shield would just remain until broken.

the instant heal/mana restore might not sound like much, but it could save a couple of seconds every time you recall low on health and mana and would allow you to instantly move back to lane.

maybe it would be cool to have another rune in the first row that makes friendly control wards grant some sort of defensive buff. or maybe for having active wards on the map. a third option would be to get a small heal every time you destroy an enemy ward.

shield bash should be moved to resolve 2 as a 4th rune, since its a combat rune.

Rabbi Shekelberg1 votes

I like your random first suggestion, but i'd say it has way too much power to be a normal rune because of the shield. it could be used as a new keystone for tanks and juggernauts that are against a ranged target. if a tanky melee champion is laning against cancer like Teemo Quinn Vayne Viktor , in this meta, it's very hard for them to survive. Grasp is instantly useless. Guardian unusable in a solo lane. Aftershock is useless and as unreliable as grasp.

The extra shield could tank a couple of autos, and the constant recall could tank a couple of annoying seconds. or as Riot would put it: "If you're struggling in lane and backing a lot, this is the rune for you."

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Drooling Ape,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-02T21:16:06.195+0000)

I like your random first suggestion, but i'd say it has way too much power to be a normal rune because of the shield. it could be used as a new keystone for tanks and juggernauts that are against a ranged target. if a tanky melee champion is laning against cancer like Teemo Quinn Vayne Viktor , in this meta, it's very hard for them to survive. Grasp is instantly useless. Guardian unusable in a solo lane. Aftershock is useless and as unreliable as grasp.

The extra shield could tank a couple of autos, and the constant recall could tank a couple of annoying seconds. or as Riot would put it: "If you're struggling in lane and backing a lot, this is the rune for you."

could also add the item 2053 passive instead of the shield and make it the "get back to lane quick" rune.

font of life entering the fountain instantly restores all your health and mana. gain x % decaying movement speed near turrets, and fallen turrets.

maybe the movement speed bonus could scale with your health to make it scale more into later stages. on the other hand, we have homeguards later on.

the point is to save a bit of time, and instead of taking 20 to 30 seconds to get back to lane every time, you take like 15 to 20.

it makes thematic sense as a defensive rune, in a sense that it helps you defend your lane.

Rabbi Shekelberg1 votes

You should make a different thread suggesting such a keystone. i doubt anyone is going to scroll in the comments for the discussion, and i'm sure the Riot staff only bother to take 1 quick glance a day at the front page.

Leaf on Bush1 votes

font of life is useless for solo laners, and only proccs on movement impairing effects. thats why its so niche.

It's also useful for enchanters especially to give ardent censer buff to your whole team.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf on Bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-03T09:37:13.980+0000)

It's also useful for enchanters especially to give ardent censer buff to your whole team.

enchanters arent solo laners. and since they dont stack health to scale it up, its only marginally useful for them and why they dont take it.

out of janna, lulu, nami, soraka, sona only soraka goes into resolve, and she doesnt touch font of life. she picks boneplating and revitalize.

even out of Taric Leona Alistar

only leona regularly takes font of life. taric picks shield bash, and alistar takes demolish far more often than font of life.

lets face it, the rune is a waste of a slot in the tree. if only a very small amount of champions can even make effective use of a rune, and even those champions dont take it most of the time, its failed as a concept.

this is why i would argue shield bash isnt any better.

Leaf on Bush1 votes

Enchanters build less health but they do build heal & shield boost. Font of life works with max health so the difference is not as big as you would think. Base health matters too.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf on Bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=00000001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-03T09:54:08.361+0000)

Enchanters build less health but they do build heal & shield boost. Font of life works with max health so the difference is not as big as you would think. Base health matters too.

but theyre literally not taking the rune. because its inferior for them. just because it technically works doesnt mean its effective enough to justify.

the only enchanter who even goes into resolve isnt even taking it.

even support tanks dont take it. literally the only champion who regularly takes this rune right now is Leona

does this mean it makes sense to keep it in the game? i dont want it buffed either. i want it removed for something generalistic that benefits every champion who wants to build health.

Rabbi Shekelberg2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-02T19:51:47.514+0000)

runes like aftershock, shield bash and font of life are bad design, since they only interact with specific champion kits.

don't forget that Aftershock has a better synergy with squishy champions with cc like Pyke Lissandra RekSai than tanks. the effects are far more noticeable and effective.

Xedlord4 votes

Actually, it doesn't affect regen

BigFBear1 votes

Ye... Would be nice because Voli could use it then.

Rabbi Shekelberg4 votes

why is this a surprise? tanks have no default runes, nearly all champions from all of the different classes can make better use of the resolve tree than tanks themselves.

Somebody Love Me3 votes

Idk if anyone mentioned the bottom sorcery tree and how all the runes are basically shit in today's meta with gathering storm being the least shit

Okay maybe waterwalking isn't as shit but it's kinda bad on non junglers

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Idk if anyone mentioned the bottom sorcery tree and how all the runes are basically shit in today's meta with gathering storm being the least shit

Okay maybe waterwalking isn't as shit but it's kinda bad on non junglers

thats a different problem.

all of those sorcery runes are equally accessable to all champions who would want to opt into the tree.

you can take gathering storm, water walking and scorch basically on any champion.

my problem is more with runes like celerity, shield bash and others, that almost all but a few champions are physically incapable of using, and that are broken or balanced around (or at least incredibly stronger) on a few champions who can.

rokon693 votes

It's even worse in other gamemodes, sometimes demolish feels even more useless, effectively making you have no good rune choice at all.

I don't agree with celerity though, it's good on alot of champions. Extra movement speed is always good. Just not priority for some champions. For every ranged champion it can be the difference between being able to kite or not. And for a melee it can make the difference between being kited or not.

Lunaranul2 votes

Add this to Shield Bash:

Reduces the cooldown of Lifeline (Hex/Maw/Sterak's) by 15%.

Like how the Stopwatch rune in Inspiration reduces the cooldown of the things that build out of Stopwatch. Reducing the CD on Lifeline lets more champions get some mileage out of Shield Bash.

Though I'm not sure if this would overload the rune or make Sterak's too good. I do think Sterak's CD should probably be 90 seconds like Hex and Maw, though.

Leaf on Bush2 votes

You think it's not balanced when Sion deals 90% of his teams damage to towers?

Anyway...there are just too many runes, too much stuff was added just to fill up the trees. I agree that runes should be generalistic.

Riot should have tried to find runes that don't become mandatory so IF a champion even has more than one playstyle (which is not always the case) you have some options, and then maybe add 1 secondary rune tier you can pick from. That's already more than enough and you can add the stats of you want.

It's already hard enough to make runes that don't just become mandatory even with just 2 slots to fill.

But tbh I don't think that runes are even needed. Whatever a champion lacks, you can give them directly and then balancing becomes a lot easier.

So either make runes that serve a general purpose or remove them completely if you have no ideas....

Oh and while I am at it, manaflow band , nimbus cloak, nullifying orb, bone plating, shield bash are really shitty names for runes. Shield Bash is a spell, the others are items.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

rtbf2216514122 votes

Shield Bash doesn't work on some shield champions btw. Lul

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Shield Bash doesn't work on some shield champions btw. Lul

really? which ones?

Th3KindredSpirit1 votes

Celerity is a popular rune on Fiora, it's really quite nice on her.

Arsur131 votes

Actually, the old celerity on Nunu & Willump was pretty good as it made his snowball do more damage. However, it's not as fun now but you can still use it on Nunu.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GTcGFTAo,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-02T11:29:13.227+0000)

were two month into preseason, and riot hasnt even aknowledged that they put 2 highly niche runes that are only usable on a very small amount of champions in resolve 1 and effectively forced almost every resolve user into the only universal rune left and picking demolish.

can we have some actual options in that tree?

overgrowth is still hot garbage and nerfed compared to season 8, for every champion that buys a single health item.

while were at it, why is celerity still a thing? no one wants this rune. how many mages or spellcasters in general who would want into sorcery are there even with movement speed boosts in their kits? buffing the rune by 2% doesnt change that its practically impossible to even use for most champions in this game. congratulations, the 3 champions Hecarim MasterYi Warwick who might think about taking it, might think about it a little bit more before picking something else.

I agree with what you said other then Celerity. Celerity is very good on all Phase uses and it's also a solid choice most of the Aery taking supports like Raka Janna

Wacky91 votes

{quoted}

Celerity is very good on all Phase uses

So nobody then?

BigFBear1 votes

The Resolve Tree was and is pure shit. The only thing why i HAVE to take it as tanky Jungler is Aftershock. I would LOVE to take another tree but I need the deff from Aftershock...

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