"Tanks counter assassins"

Cloud273··3 votes·1,303 views

Except assassins build items that shred through your armor like it's nothing, so not really. They can also build botrk which lets them shred through you even more easily. They also have abilities that make them untargetable, so avoiding your cc is easy. They can also bypass the frontline very easily, due to the mobility from their items and abilities. With even a small amount of magic resist (as well as other items like death's dance, edge of night, maw, etc), your damage becomes laughable and you can't touch them. And the cooldowns on their items are much shorter than the cooldowns of tank items, so they have more opportunities to make plays than you (in fact, assassins are knows for having super short cooldowns, so they get to run around the map making 'plays' all day while tanks get to do nothing because of stupidly long cooldowns). And a lot of them hyperscale (Rengar, Zed, etc), so their late game will always be better than yours assuming they get at least a couple kills. Please don't give me this "high risk" bullsh*t when it comes to assassins. They have so many ways to avoid tanks and kill them it's stupid.

22 Comments

SnakDatSmilesBak3 votes

Breh, I wish you'd used paragraphs. Armor directly counters lethality. CC is the best way to stop an assassin. I think tanks counter assassins.

Cocho2 votes

Is this guy saying tanks are weak or something? He is literally spamming chogath lol

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Is this guy saying tanks are weak or something? He is literally spamming chogath lol

You're so right dude. I mean god forbid people play a tank champion. And I'm not 'spamming' him. I played him like 3 times a couple days ago.

Cocho1 votes
TEA Nietzsche 2 votes

I swear the ideal team according to the boards is this: top: tank or bruiser building fulltank jgl: tank mid: mage or tank adc: [delete role] sup: tank or heal-/shieldbot

Iota Theta2 votes

{quoted}

Except assassins build items that shred through your armor like it's nothing, so not really.

Most items build by AD assassins right now have lethality, which ignores a flat amount of armour based on level, which is better for killing squishies who don't build armour. The only items left are LW items and Cleaver, only a few build cleaver if at all, same with whisper. Assassins are designed to kill carries, so they'll build the items to do that job, not attempt to burst a tank.

They can also build botrk which lets them shred through you even more easily.

Yeah, no. Skirmishers, yes, but almost all assassin's are burst and would get very little benefit from BotRK. They're better off buying DD.

They also have abilities that make them untargetable, so avoiding your cc is easy.

Assassins are meant to get in and out quick. Untargetability is one was of doing that. Besides, Fizz is the only one that actually can go untargetable, if I'm right (unless you are counting Skirmishers, in which case, I guess Yi counts as well).

They can also bypass the frontline very easily, due to the mobility from their items and abilities.

That's part of their job. It's why you need to expect it if you see an assassin on the enemy team. They aren't gonna just walk past the frontline because they'll explode.

With even a small amount of magic resist (as well as other items like death's dance, edge of night, maw, etc), your damage becomes laughable and you can't touch them.

Tanks don't build damage. Or at least very little, if any. So..duh. Tank's biggest threat to an assassin is CCing them so they can't do anything.

And the cooldowns on their items are much shorter than the cooldowns of tank items, so they have more opportunities to make plays than you (in fact, assassins are knows for having super short cooldowns, so they get to run around the map making "plays" all day while tanks get to do nothing because of stupidly long cooldowns).

Perhaps, but tank items tend to be teamfight oriented (sunfire for AoE, IBG for AoE slow, Abyssal for magic damage amp, Stoneplate to buy more time for your team, etc). Assassin items are focused around helping the assassin survive long enough or deal enough damage to one target.

And a lot of them hyperscale (Rengar, Zed, etc), so their late game will always be better than yours assuming they get at least a couple kills. Please don't give me this "high risk" bullsh*t when it comes to assassins.

Hahaha. Assassins are more early game. They thrive when everyone is separated so they can pick off their target. Come later game, they mostly just built damage, and dive into the middle of the enemy team. That's their high risk, because if they mess that up, they're pretty much dead or useless for the rest of the fight (ex: look at Zed if his Death Mark doesn't go as planned and the carry survives).

Also, Rengar is a weird one, considering Riot doesn't even know if he's a bruiser/diver or an assassin, as he has no actual escape, same as Nocturne.

They have so many ways to avoid tanks and kill them it's stupid.

In the end....no. And if an assassin wasted his CDs on a tank, he's a bad assassin.

Cloud2731 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GRcZ2n3r,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-07-23T13:41:08.167+0000)

Most items build by AD assassins right now have lethality, which ignores a flat amount of armour based on level, which is better for killing squishies who don't build armour. The only items left are LW items and Cleaver, only a few build cleaver if at all, same with whisper. Assassins are designed to kill carries, so they'll build the items to do that job, not attempt to burst a tank.

Yeah, no. Skirmishers, yes, but almost all assassin's are burst and would get very little benefit from BotRK. They're better off buying DD.

Assassins are meant to get in and out quick. Untargetability is one was of doing that. Besides, Fizz is the only one that actually can go untargetable, if I'm right (unless you are counting Skirmishers, in which case, I guess Yi counts as well).

That's part of their job. It's why you need to expect it if you see an assassin on the enemy team. They aren't gonna just walk past the frontline because they'll explode.

Tanks don't build damage. Or at least very little, if any. So..duh. Tank's biggest threat to an assassin is CCing them so they can't do anything.

Perhaps, but tank items tend to be teamfight oriented (sunfire for AoE, IBG for AoE slow, Abyssal for magic damage amp, Stoneplate to buy more time for your team, etc). Assassin items are focused around helping the assassin survive long enough or deal enough damage to one target.

Hahaha. Assassins are more early game. They thrive when everyone is separated so they can pick off their target. Come later game, they mostly just built damage, and dive into the middle of the enemy team. That's their high risk, because if they mess that up, they're pretty much dead or useless for the rest of the fight (ex: look at Zed if his Death Mark doesn't go as planned and the carry survives).

Also, Rengar is a weird one, considering Riot doesn't even know if he's a bruiser/diver or an assassin, as he has no actual escape, same as Nocturne.

In the end....no. And if an assassin wasted his CDs on a tank, he's a bad assassin.

Black cleaver though

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Black cleaver though

What assassins are building Cleaver and able to survive a fight long enough to make use of it?

Cloud2731 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GRcZ2n3r,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-07-23T21:30:17.772+0000)

What assassins are building Cleaver and able to survive a fight long enough to make use of it?

Rengar, Zed, Kha, Talon (just to name a few). And yes they actually do survive a long time. Rengar can run to a bush and hide after jumping in, because people know he gets free damage if they try to chase him through the bushes. He also has a slow to prevent chasing and a free qss if anyone tries to cc him. Talon is able to vault over walls for any easy escape, and can also slow people with his 'w' to prevent chasing. Kha'Zix can stealth multiple times during a fight, so that gives him loads of survivability. He also stealths when entering bushes now, so there's that too. He can also leap over walls for even more survivability. Finally, like Rengar and Talon, he has a slow, so good luck catching him. Finally, we have Zed, who gets untargetability with his ult, an ability that allows him to instantly reposition, and a slow. So as you can see, assassins have plenty of survivability.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Rengar, Zed, Kha, Talon (just to name a few). And yes they actually do survive a long time. Rengar can run to a bush and hide after jumping in, because people know he gets free damage if they try to chase him through the bushes. He also has a slow to prevent chasing and a free qss if anyone tries to cc him. Talon is able to vault over walls for any easy escape, and can also slow people with his 'w' to prevent chasing. Kha'Zix can stealth multiple times during a fight, so that gives him loads of survivability. He also stealths when entering bushes now, so there's that too. He can also leap over walls for even more survivability. Finally, like Rengar and Talon, he has a slow, so good luck catching him. Finally, we have Zed, who gets untargetability with his ult, an ability that allows him to instantly reposition, and a slow. So as you can see, assassins have plenty of survivability.

So, at least according to champ.gg, only zed and talon build it. It is in neither Rengar's nor Kha's most frequent or highest winrate. Zed I guess can make use with his poke, as can talon, but I think they mainly get it for the extra health to help them survive.

Rengar - has a slow to prevent chasing, but then he can't use it for his chasing, which it's a more useful tool for. His cleanse only works if he has full ferocity.

Kha'zix - can stealth only 2 times in a fight. His stealth through bushes is only if he evolves his ult (which isn't that common), which also gives an extra charge. His leap can only really be used once in a fight unless he manages to get a kill for the reset after he evolves his E. and his slow is only there if his W is evolved and isolated.

Talon's E is only usable on terrain, and it has a high internal CD. His ult, true, but if he uses it to escape and stay alive, he misses out on it's damage. His slow is on the tail end of his W, which means he has to throw it out and suffer a second or two of more damage before the target is slowed unless they aren't right on top of him.

Zed typically has to use his W to get close to his target for ult. He doesn't untl to avoid CC, but just to pop a carry, however you know exactly where he lands when it's done, and you can see where he'll be going if he uses his shadow. You can then force him to back out before he can finish his mark. And I'm failing for find his slow..oh, there is is, but only on the his Shadow's E, which means he can't use it to escape.

Next.

HeresyHorus2 votes

Tanks are Great against AP Champs but Mediocre/Bad against AD Champs, its been like this for ages.

Scary Door1 votes

Malphite would like a word with you.

HeresyHorus1 votes

with item 3812 item 3046 as core on most ADCs, even Malphite Rammus kinda suffer now cuz almost 0 dmg.

tho Malphite is still pretty good only cuz of his E, but i wont be surprised if Riot change it the moment he becomes popular, look at what they did to Rammus once he gained some popularity.

they fixed him only after he disappeared again form the rift cuz of the nerf.

Doodlzzz2 votes

Have you seen a talon trying to kill a chogath late?

Doctor Jarvis1 votes

Cho'Gath doesn't count. Not that I agree with the OP, but come on man.

AlienPrimate2 votes

I stopped reading when you said "items that shred through your armor." Lethality does not counter armor. It is the opposite. Armor hard counters lethality.

Escheton1 votes

{quoted}

I stopped reading when you said "items that shred through your armor." Lethality does not counter armor. It is the opposite. Armor hard counters lethality.

It doesn't unless you build a lot of it. The idea is correct. But in reality lethality is just so strong early right now that Tanks aren't tanky against it. Say you do want counterbuild it specifically, what do you buy? item 3742? As a first item, you lack sustain and/or mana. Because the person buying ad/lethality can clear the wave without mana faster due to it. Which means you have to use abilities to clear the wave or get put under tower while said lethality user roams and kills an ally. Ok, so we need mana also and maybe some waveclear, item 3025 . Sounds good. But now we have no bonus health. And even though Tanks have decent health/lvl, a bit of poke and a short trade, maybe 2. And the Tank is easily too low to defend lane without dying to an all in. Ok, so...we need a bit of armor, health and mana to get out of lane phase alive. item 3800 30 armor. That is what you get if you actually go for a Full item that covers most everything you need and don't flail about with 3 or more component items. Yay.

And don't say item 3068. It got nerfed into oblivion. It simply doesn't do what it is supposed to any more.

AlienPrimate1 votes

The last time I played mid I was against Zed and got sunfire first item. I made him look stupid with it. After I finished it, Zed couldn't do anything to me.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2552258234/209287161?tab=overview

It was just too bad that bottom and top lane couldn't do anything and my team surrendered at 20 minutes even though I wanted to keep on playing.

Eternal Torment1 votes

that is actually wrong. you are now biasedly downtalking every assassin in the game because of zed and LB alone. Most assassins do not have a good escape, thought they have one. They most often rely on their damage and mobility to get the job done and walk out before anyone catches them out. Zed and lb and since new kayn are the only assassins who have a very reliable escape AND an engage.

Sintama1 votes

item 3075 lololololololololololololol

Joxcab1 votes

Then you forget they still have no DPS at all so they still can't do shit to tanks even if they went full anti-tank, which they literally almost never ever do. There's no point in them even getting something like Lord Dominik's since that's a tank killer and they won't do shit to tanks.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Learn the game before you randomly cry and []post.

Frightning1 votes

Tanks counter assassins in teamfights, 1v1 they don't because they lack damage. Best 1v1 assassin counters are fighters, especially divers.

More from Gameplay

More by Cloud273