Why is Fizz allowed to exist in his current state?

Cloud273·Jan 4, 2016·13 votes·1,163 views

Of all assassins in this game, Fizz is the most frustrating champ to play against. Other assassins are annoying as well, but at least there's something you can do. You can pink ward against Evelynn, Shaco, etc and get QSS for Zed. With Fizz, there's literally nothing you can do. He jumps at you and becomes untargetable and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it. You can nerf his damage/change his numbers all you want Riot. But the problem still remains. Fizz needs some actual counterplay.

30 Comments

RalanrJan 4, 20165 votes

All of these counterplay examples involve items.

That isn't a good thing.

Cloud273Jan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

All of these counterplay examples involve items.

That isn't a good thing.

I'm not denying that Zed, Shaco, etc are broken. But at least there's something you can do to fight back. There's NOTHING you can do against Fizz. He can dodge everything with his troll pole, so all of a sudden your tower becomes useless after he dives you. And he ignores unit collision, so don't expect the minions to help you much either.

RalanrJan 4, 20161 votes

No, no I'm not defending Fizz. It's just that every assassin counterplay example you mentioned requires an item.

Why do they need an item for counterplay? Healthy counterplay shouldn't involved buying an item to avoid the ability. You should by the item if you have problems avoiding the ability.

Itadaki SeiekiJan 4, 20163 votes

You can position yourself behind your frontline so if he DOES try to ulti you the tanks will snag it. That or just predict his pattern. If he's running up to you, chances are he's going to all-in, so back away and if you see his ulti launch move to the side. It's hitbox isn't the biggest but it'll snag you unless you're clear from it.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

All of these counterplay examples involve items.

That isn't a good thing.

items isnt really counterplaying. its counter measure.

RalanrJan 4, 20161 votes

That's not good.

Where is the healthy counterplay?

ZephyrDrakeJan 4, 20164 votes

dodge his fish and watch his damage go down the drain unless he is that fed

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

dodge his fish and watch his damage go down the drain unless he is that fed

oh man. it snot like he can get right next to you with his gapcloser and use his ult then

ZephyrDrakeJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

oh man. it snot like he can get right next to you with his gapcloser and use his ult then

it's not like you can't just QSS his ult or just focus him the instant he uses his pole or anything

RalanrJan 4, 20161 votes

It's not like he has an ability that makes his basic attacks scale off a portion of his AP.

ChroyoJan 4, 20164 votes

You're able to qss the shark off.

Cloud273Jan 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You're able to qss the shark off.

Your point is irrelevant. His ult isn't the issue. It's his troll pole.

ZerglingOneJan 4, 20164 votes

item 3102 exists.

If you have it. You either block the fish if it was going to hit you, the shark if you misstep anyway, or his Q + W + Lich + Luden's.

Either scenario, his all-in is screwed and he doesn't really have a good way of popping it otherwise.

summoner 21 and summoner 3 are also exceptional against his damage since it basically all happens at once.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

exists.

If you have it. You either block the fish if it was going to hit you, the shark if you misstep anyway, or his Q + W + Lich + Luden's.

Either scenario, his all-in is screwed and he doesn't really have a good way of popping it otherwise.

that depends on him. he can see it. and use his other 3 spells to pop the bubble. its not rocket science

ZerglingOneJan 4, 20164 votes

{quoted}

that depends on him. he can see it. and use his other 3 spells to pop the bubble. its not rocket science

Also like any other assassin, surviving his combo means he hasn't done his job and is probably dead for it because he's now an assassin with all of his CDs down.

If you A. cause him to blow one of his big spells to pop a BV, you have won. B. cause his all-in to fail, you have won. C. made him choose to use an escape to damage you, or just not hit you at all because if he W Q Lich Luden's you, you just blocked 4 sources of damage with 1 spell shield. If you block his E or shark, he's out an escape or an ultimate.

Do you not understand what I'm saying? If he can't deal with your one item, you've already basically won. Fizz has no way of dealing with Banshee's Veil, just like all other characters who lack a long range non-ultimate spell that are highly reliant on a single source of heavy damage.

Examples include but are not limited to: Annie Nasus Leblanc Veigar Blitzcrank

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also like any other assassin, surviving his combo means he hasn't done his job and is probably dead for it because he's now an assassin with all of his CDs down.

If you A. cause him to blow one of his big spells to pop a BV, you have won. B. cause his all-in to fail, you have won. C. made him choose to use an escape to damage you, or just not hit you at all because if he W Q Lich Luden's you, you just blocked 4 sources of damage with 1 spell shield. If you block his E or shark, he's out an escape or an ultimate.

Do you not understand what I'm saying? If he can't deal with your one item, you've already basically won. Fizz has no way of dealing with Banshee's Veil, just like all other characters who lack a long range non-ultimate spell that are highly reliant on a single source of heavy damage.

lmao his 4.5 second untargetability shit. yeah thats a lot of time to kill fizz

ZerglingOneJan 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

lmao his 4.5 second untargetability shit. yeah thats a lot of time to kill fizz

It's plenty. Veigar Leblanc Ahri Malzahar Lissandra

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's plenty.

fizz counters 3 of these. the first 3 to be specific

Zane ZephyrJan 4, 20161 votes

He can still give malzahar a rough time because he can gapclose you when your spells are on cd and he can interrupt the ult.

I hate playing against fizz when I go malz because I already know what's going to happen.

YeklerJan 4, 20164 votes

Early push him under turret forces him to use the troll pole to clear hes very bad under turret last hitter.latter on its the same thing with other champs like jax fiora yes hes irritating but not really as bad as say zed who can push wave farm under turret dive and has a n uber safe lane phase fizz is no huge problem IMO.

Rengar zed Miss Fortune Himerdinger Annie Gnar are all way more irritating to me personally.

Simple MoonJan 4, 20164 votes

Vel'Koz. Simple. You can see where he is going to land from Trickster. Place your knock up right where he is going to land. Rip open the earth, expose the void, send your Q and if he isn't dead you have a death ray to finish him. Did this exact same thing to a pretty good Fizz. Said he had never been countered like that before.

colesyJan 4, 20164 votes

qss fizz's ult or dodge it

if you don't qss, banshee will block part of his combo and give you health and resists to soak up some damage as well. like any assassin, if he can't get off his full rotation of abilities he won't kill you

if you want to completely deny him, you can flash his troll pole, juke/qss his ult and then just kill him with a few autos since you'll crit him and cut him to pieces.

so yeah, the counterplay is there, you're just not using it.

GrReaper96Jan 4, 20163 votes

Why is Fizz allowed to exist i~~n his current state~~? Fixed your title

shyvJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}get QSS for Zed.

With Fizz, there's literally nothing you can do.

last time i checked you could zhonyas his entire ult?

Cloud273Jan 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GJJpPQ9A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-04T03:18:31.780+0000)

last time i checked you could zhonyas his entire ult?

There are multiple options for dealing with Zed. You can either QSS and get rid of the mark, or use Zhonyas right before the mark detonates to block the damage. Either way, at least you have options.

shyvJan 4, 20161 votes

im talking about fizz but way to completely miss the point

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20161 votes

a lot of champs are allowed to stay in an unhealthy state against most other champs.