Shaco deserves a nerf too

Cloud273··3 votes·800 views

After looking at Shaco's kit, I almost feel like he deserves a nerf more than Fizz, Akali, etc. Shaco has fear AND stealth. Possibly the most broken mechanics in this game. Like Teemo's shrooms, they give him an enormous amount of safety at all stages of the game (impossible to focus him) and provide too much map control (especially at objectives). Riot you always preach about "meaningful counterplay", but there is none to be found in Shaco's kit.

Perhaps you could make his shiv a skillshot (like Rengar's Bola shot). Then he'd at least require SOME skill to play.

15 Comments

Trolosaurus4 votes

Calls Shaco OP Claims he takes no skill to play No games on record with him

Oh boy http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/905/370/e5e.png

I want you to play him before you bitch about him ok?

SanKakU3 votes

Fizz's invulnerability is way better than stealth. There are a lot of champions that have that. There is also Fiora, Master Yi, Zed, Kalista(for her ally), and probably more that I'm not sure about or am simply unaware of. I don't think Kayle belongs to this group since I think her ultimate only prevents damage, the affected champion can still be disabled if I am not mistaken.

As for Shaco's third skill, the passive doesn't work while the active is in cooldown, and it's a skill of a Shaco player to use the passive sometimes for a longer duration slow but without damage, or to throw the shivs for the shorter duration slow but burst damage being added to the attack. The choice is not always easy.

Shaco is faced with many choices. When he lays his traps he has to choose where to plant them. He also has to choose whether he wants to plant them in sight of the opponents or not. His traps are capable of tremendous damage, much more than the shivs, but they are also easily countered. They could be destroyed accidentally or on purpose by spells and they can be revealed with a free trinket and attacked at range.

I do like Shaco, but I don't think he's as strong of a champion as many others because his mechanics are not that great compared to other champions. Warwick and Ashe are a couple of classic examples of champions with superior mechanics. Ashe has a third skill's passive that gains her additional gold, and to add on top of that, her basic ability promotes the purchase of the gold income item that gives her increased critical strike chance. Warwick has an ultimate that does way more for lock down than Shaco can do. On top of that, he can generally outrun his opponents if they survive the initial disable. His ultimate isn't a skill shot just as Shaco's third skill isn't.

Shaco is a champion that rewards the player for being creative and tricky. However, I actually feel he's not as great on Summoner's Rift as he could be. I think the main problem is that fights can happen anywhere and you simply can't plant that many traps because the duration does not scale with AP. I made a thread about this, suggesting that every 100 points or so of AP should give +15 seconds duration, but Riot has yet to mention if they think it's a good idea.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Meaningful counterplay

item 2043

Cloud2731 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGQn8i76,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-29T06:34:43.687+0000)

Meaningful counterplay

item 2043

Typical GD response

Trolosaurus3 votes

{quoted}

Typical GD response

"Oh no! A counterclaim!" "I'd better be a defensive smartass! That'll show that ruffian!"

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

"Oh no! A counterclaim!" "I'd better be a defensive smartass! That'll show that ruffian!"

At least I don't insult people with my replies. Why don't you grow up a bit before saying something stupid.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

At least I don't insult people with my replies.

Immediately retorts with an insult

Why don't you grow up a bit before saying something stupid

Lol k

Cloud2731 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGQn8i76,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-29T07:51:17.954+0000)

Immediately retorts with an insult

Lol k

That's not an insult. It's a fact. You just insulted me. Wtf do you call that?

Toothierosprey33 votes

Typical GD complaint. You just got beat by a Shaco, so suddenly he needs a nerf...

Scuttler Slayer3 votes

Have you played him?

"Impossible to focus"... Even the best Shaco in the world will get focused the second he pops up. Will he get a kill in a late game team fight? Likely. Will he get 2? Not so likely. (In a balanced scenario)

Counterplay? His fear CC isn't THAT reliable. You have to place it where the enemy will go/ be and hope it triggers in time. He's squishy. Very squishy. (Except with the tank build, but then he loses his amazing assassinations, which make him fun, imo).

No Skill to play? That's a good one. Arguably one of the most difficult champs to play at 100% effectiveness in the game.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Have you played him?

"Impossible to focus"... Even the best Shaco in the world will get focused the second he pops up. Will he get a kill in a late game team fight? Likely. Will he get 2? Not so likely. (In a balanced scenario)

Counterplay? His fear CC isn't THAT reliable. You have to place it where the enemy will go/ be and hope it triggers in time. He's squishy. Very squishy. (Except with the tank build, but then he loses his amazing assassinations, which make him fun, imo).

No Skill to play? That's a good one. Arguably one of the most difficult champs to play at 100% effectiveness in the game.

Yes. He is impossible to focus. Because he'll just stealth or run to one of his boxes.

Scuttler Slayer1 votes

{quoted}

Yes. He is impossible to focus. Because he'll just stealth or run to one of his boxes.

Yes cause his Stealth is ALWAYS up. Not like it has 6s CD. And his boxes too. Not like they have a 10s+ CD.

Also was Arakara73 said: he's been nerfed so much. He was op in the first few months of S1. Not since then, though.

Toothierosprey32 votes

Absolutely 0 wards bought the entire game.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

Are you high? Shaco is the most nerfed champion in the history of League. There is really no other way you could nerf him directly without basically deleting him. He has the highest skillcap in the game and if you are getting rekt by a Shaco it either means you are really bad or he is a God Shaco main. It takes an enormous amount of skill to play him well.

DrCyanide1 votes

summoner 11 counters Shaco now, did you know that? Smite the raptors, walk near any of the wards they probably have around, true vision on Shaco. It actually punishes Shaco for getting deep wards down. He can never hide from RekSai . If LeeSin sees him once, Shaco has to turn and run or be revealed for his entire stealth duration.

I also didn't realize that a 2 second window wasn't enough time for meaningful counterplay. You see, it takes that long for Shaco to have a chance of Fearing you. And unlike Teemo's shrooms, Shaco's boxes don't do their full damage late game.

There is skill to playing Shaco. You should try it sometime.

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