Why is everyone whining about tank meta now?
It's literally been two patches guys.
150 Comments
LoLKiru40 votesRefusal to adapt.
Bear in mind some of these were likely the same people who said tanks were worthless because of 
, 
, and 
.
Thats not to say some tanks weren't made genuinely overpowered by cinderhulk becoming a thing, but people need to learn to adapt, and stop whining whenever something that hampers their fun is strong (its okay for tanks to be strong, thats a GOOD thing, we want as many types of champions to be "strong" as possible)
Also most tanks get screwed pretty hard by any splitpushing, due to not having too much waveclear, and being unable to duel most splitpushers.
67chrome3 votesAlso most tanks get screwed pretty hard by any splitpushing, due to not having too much waveclear, and being unable to duel most splitpushers.
Most tanks are actually pretty solid at split-pushing.
, a tank with essentially no damage and essentially no AoE built into his kit, was the reigning split-push champion for about 2 years running.
Fighters are also the best duelists in the game. And most tanks people talk about within a tank meta happen to be fighter/tanks.
Like 
, who does not suck at clearing waves or dueling. Or killing towers.
LoLKiru1 votesMost tanks are actually pretty solid at split-pushing.
Fighters are also the best duelists in the game. And most tanks people talk about within a tank meta happen to be fighter/tanks.
Yeah it certainly depends on who your talking about, pure tanks like Sejuani, Amumu and such don't really have much of an ability to duel (though this again, also depends on who your opponent is using too), most notorious splitpusher off the top of my head is Tryndamere, who none of them have a snowballs chance of handling alone.
On a side note, given that im extremely unfamiliar with anything pre-season 3, how exactly was Shen a good split pusher? I mean Stand United is obviously an invaluable asset to aid his team when he is off splitpushing, but isn't good waveclear basically necessary to be good at those things?
redniwediS14 votesShen's splitpushing is less about quality and more about quantity. He can ult into any team fight, and so as long as his ult is up he can endlessly split push while always being ready to turn a teamfight in his teams favor. His team literally has split pusher without having to fight 4v5 fights.
Captain Aishi5 voteshe was also often used in combination or as an answer to twisted fate doing the same thing in another lane/on the other team
LankPants6 votesYeah it certainly depends on who your talking about, pure tanks like Sejuani, Amumu and such don't really have much of an ability to duel (though this again, also depends on who your opponent is using too), most notorious splitpusher off the top of my head is Tryndamere, who none of them have a snowballs chance of handling alone.
You picked possibly two of the worst examples you could. Sej and Mumu are actually decent duellists since they have good damage and are super tanky, sure they're not Tryn/Jax levels of dueling but they're at least as good as Ren. They also have great AOE clear which means they can push into towers quickly, which is actually a very good trait for a splitpusher.
The reason they don't split because them splitting means that they leave their team vulnerable to an engage. The tanks that can't split at all are mostly support tanks who lack the damage that Sej and Mumu can put out. Naturally the majority of these tanks don't go into jungle as they lack the damage to clear, the closet of the jungle tanks to not being able to duel is Naut and before his changes I probably would have used him as an example but since his buffs he's dealing far more damage than he used to.
On a side note, given that im extremely unfamiliar with anything pre-season 3, how exactly was Shen a good split pusher? I mean Stand United is obviously an invaluable asset to aid his team when he is off splitpushing, but isn't good waveclear basically necessary to be good at those things?
He was way stronger. Back then Armour Pen and Magic Pen were calculated differently and generally quite a bit weaker, this lead to Shen becoming damn near invincible after completing Sunfire and Wit's. Speaking of Wit's that's another part of the reason he was so strong, he built a lot of damage. Wit's Triforce builds were common.
Also TP was a lot weaker than it is today and ignite was way stronger, so Shen was the only guy who got to bring global pressure while split pushing from top lane.
Major Sparkles1 votesOr you play 
and do it all.
NewOnyx2 votes
now watch it rain
Psi214 votesA number of things are making this game a complete Tank meta.
- Most Burst mages have been nerfed
- Tanky dps no longer fears DFG and the new AP item they introduced is situational and expensive trash.
- Most tank champ/bruiser have abilities that have great ratios to ap.
- HP/AR/MR provides too much of a reward over building pure DPS
- The cinderhulk provides way too much of an advantage (Think about how much passive damage it does for you over time)
- The crit % was moved to be given on completion of the item like the IE and the Phantom Blade. This Slows ADC damage.
- AP Mages are struggling and they are stack RoA to become also tanky all while falling terribly low in dps department.
Tanks are flat out too powerful. Morello's team has been messing up for years and this is 2012 all over again. They literally learned nothing. Can't we get new blood into Riot balancing team?
Angry Monster4 votes
- Most tank champ/bruiser have abilities that have great ratios to ap.
Tanks have pretty shit ratios.
- HP/AR/MR provides too much of a reward over building pure DPS
this is wrong again. D items are actually gold inefficient.
Psi212 votesSo just a few examples... Cho, Nasus and even Alister has good ratios on dmg abilities.
Items like cinderhulk have a 101% efficiency. And other HP items pay for themselves in the case of RoA power over time. Or the boost in movement buff and slow to other team from Righteous Glory
Angry Monster4 votesNasus is not tank, He gets tankie. He is a fighter. Also what idiot builds AP nanus?
Alistar has a .5 and a .7..... and then for his passive he has .1. You call that good ratios? His ult does not even scale with AP. His ratios suck ass. O just so you know his heal has a .2. Man those numbers are amazing. Explains why i see so many AP Alistair.
Cho has really good ratios agreed but he is a MAGE TANK. And honestly his AP build is going to get hard since its viable and been in Chinese and Korean LCS.
You confuse fighters with tanks. Also you do not understand hybrid classes. You pretty much have no clue what you are talking about.
IcyPepper5 votesHP/AR/MR provides too much of a reward over building pure DPS
Defenses scale better early and mid game. Attack damage scales into late game.
Your statement isn't 100% true, it's dependent on the phase of the game. It's part of the reason the apc generally goes mid and the adc goes bot with the support.
And 35% of armor is negated by for 2300 gold. That's a pretty high reward for such an efficient cost. is a bit more costly, but worth its cost when tanks build HP (good against Sejuani, for instance).
Angry Monster3 votesThe math is listed somewhere. Where late game AD items are 125% efficient compared to tank items which are 90% gold efficient. You get more out of AD items compared to tank items for gold spent.
Focus Teemo25 votesPeople who complain about the tank meta are people who can't comprehend asymmetrical gameplay. They believe its balanced when they can kill everything equally fast, never taking into consideration what other roles are meant to do. They see that despite the fact they're fed but they can't kill Rammus, or in turn Rammus even beats them in a duel without building damage, and go "tanks OP". Never once taking into consideration hey maybe Rammus is designed to be very hard to kill, maybe his kits not designed to do the exact same thing as Zed, or Graves etc. They're the ADCs that never look at his build to see thorn-mail, and think "yeah maybe i should NOT auto-attack that". They're the assassins that throw your game trying to dive Zac for resets....
On another note we aren't in a true tank meta yet, however we are in a meta that rewards strategy again, and punishes teams for having terrible compositions(surprise having assassins make up 3/5th's of your team comp is stupid). Currently every role has a decent amount of carry potential, and we don't have to rely on ONE position doing well to win. Unlike at the end of the last season with Ryze, and the ADC hypercarries OR parts of this season with certain assassins... you know the ones. I for one am very happy with the current meta for a change, and don't want it to change much.
Meep Man21 votesRemember the half of the community who liked the Assassin Meta? They want that back.
I call the three metas by what they are:
Reflex Meta (Assassin) Strategy Meta (Tank) King Meta (ADC)
Reflex due to dealing with Assassins usually boiling down to who can react the fastest. Strategy due to dealing with Tanks usually meaning forming a strategy to work around the Tank's crowd control. King due to it relating to chess. Protect the King, protect the ADC. At ALL costs.
AbIntro2 votesAlso, theres the tendency for 1 ADC to be king in that meta (i.e. Graves and Ez)
LeeDark2 votesThe problem with your categorizations is that the Tank Meta and the ADC Meta aren't actually different. If tanks are strong, then ADC's are strong. Tanks protect ADC's and can pretty much only be killed by ADC's.
Either the game is boring because it is all about which ADC can kill the opposing tank faster, or it is flashy and exciting because it is about fast reactions and outplaying your opponent.
The problem is that bad players tend to want slow and boring for when they are playing the game.
Loken Stoneheart11 votesThe problem with your categorizations is that the Tank Meta and the ADC Meta aren't actually different. If tanks are strong, then ADC's are strong. Tanks protect ADC's and can pretty much only be killed by ADC's.
Either the game is boring because it is all about which ADC can kill the opposing tank faster, or it is flashy and exciting because it is about fast reactions and outplaying your opponent.
The problem is that bad players tend to want slow and boring for when they are playing the game.
Decision making > Twitch Reflexes Its a strategy game, not a damn FPS. Stop trying to make it call of duty with Michael Bay explosion level damage characters everywhere that have 3 blinks off cooldown at all times pls.
LeeDark3 votesActually, it SHOULD be both, just like the genre that gave birth to this one. Starcraft, for example, is both strategy (sending out a scout to determine what your opponent is doing so you can counter his strat with the appropriate build) and reflexes (actually pulling off your counter strategy once the fighting starts).
There is no reason for League not to work like that. Strategy is picking the right champion for the situation, making (or not making) the lane swap to give you the best laning overall, good vision control, keeping track of objectives, and rotating at the right times. Then, when the fighting starts, that strategy should give you an advantage, but it shouldn't just win you every fight just because you picked right. Good reflexes should, and absolutely do, matter.
Your insistence that the game has to be one or the other is why you are such an idiot. The Assassin meta has strategy AND reflexes. Strategy is buying 
, reflexes are using it at the right moment. The tank meta has strategy and no reflexes. It doesn't matter if you dodge the tank's skillshot, because he isn't going to just kill you by himself. And if you see his team there, you stay out of his range anyway. You let the ADC whittle them down and just make sure you shield them enough to do it.
It isn't an FPS, but it isn't fucking chess, either, moron.
kaykalos3 votesActually, it SHOULD be both, just like the genre that gave birth to this one. Starcraft, for example, is both strategy (sending out a scout to determine what your opponent is doing so you can counter his strat with the appropriate build) and reflexes (actually pulling off your counter strategy once the fighting starts).
There is no reason for League not to work like that. Strategy is picking the right champion for the situation, making (or not making) the lane swap to give you the best laning overall, good vision control, keeping track of objectives, and rotating at the right times. Then, when the fighting starts, that strategy should give you an advantage, but it shouldn't just win you every fight just because you picked right. Good reflexes should, and absolutely do, matter.
Your insistence that the game has to be one or the other is why you are such an idiot. The Assassin meta has strategy AND reflexes. Strategy is buying
It isn't an FPS, but it isn't fucking chess, either, moron.
Man, i want to say there is a roof for reflexes and apm at this game, its not uncapped like the apm for starcraft or the reflexes for call of duty. Most times what separates a simple chalenger than a pro is how fast their minds work at short time.
kaykalos2 votesMan, i want to say there is a roof for reflexes and apm at this game, its not uncapped like the apm for starcraft or the reflexes for call of duty. Most times what separates a simple chalenger than a pro is how fast their minds work at short time.NOT THE APM NOT THE REFLEXES MORON
ModelT9 votesHate it?! I'm lovin it. I have played Garen for years and I'm really enjoying how he's coming back as a playable champion in top again. Sure, BotRK wrecks me, but that's half the fun of LoL. People complain about any change in the meta because they want to keep playing the same game and keep winning the same ways without having to worry about change.
But I believe, Yes We Can! Change is good.
InSingedWeTrust9 votesThe only people who are whining about the tank meta are assassin mains.
khorney7 votesCause there dumb. A Fed garen can carry a game . ap varus laughs at tanks. Well when your adc refuses to get blade of the ruined king for the bonus damage then you wonder why you lose and or split push and watch the tank meta fail
Kitten of Evil5 votesPeople laugh at AP Varus...
Until he chunks down their tank from 40%-0% in one hit.
redniwediS19 votesSee, here's my problem with what you just said. As a Garen main I've been able to do that for years. Your problem isn't with what tanky champions are doing now, it's that people realize it can be done. I've been laughed at for picking Garen during his supposed "weak" phases, and yet a new jungle item comes in (which Garen doesn't buy) and the QQ begins.
Old Man Teeto7 votesPlaying against Tank meta requires strategy.
Playing against assassin meta requires twitch mechanic's.
Predominantly at least.
thicc as fuk7 votespeople will complain no matter the meta
Partholonian2 votesComplaint meta OP, Riot plz nerf.
Obiwan Jhinobi6 votesThis is one of the best meta we could have because after all these patches we see almost every role set with unpopular champions(
,
,
(top),
,
,) even in the LCS
A month ago bruiser jgl like 
,
,
were almost only played and since the assassins nerfs you can play 
or 
mid again without getting stomped
exiledFromBadmen5 votesI think people played 
and 
so much, so they hate and .
I Main Swain5 votesand lets not forget that the assassin meta was so much more annoying. anything that makes 
less popular in my opinion is golden.
AMYS GRAVE5 votestanks are viable =/= tank meta. we are finally seeing diversity so don't ruin it.
Toa of Death4 votesbefore these patches, I saw people whining about how Tanks were useless and that they were just melted by ADCs no matter what. Now, I see people whining about how Tanks are actually useful now. Make up your fucking minds people!
Fadedpf3 votesThe get melted and bursted meta is still here.... tanks succeed sometimes not 100%...
League of Potato3 votesBecause people will always complain about something. The game never has been, nor will it ever be perfect. Sadly, the majority of the league community is too immature to realize this.
Silmaril3 votesMost of the problems, coming from somebody who dislikes tank metas, is that when a tank starts to get ahead and snowball, they are frustratingly difficult to punish, especially in a solo Q environment, particularly if they're the only one getting ahead. At least against fed assassins if they screw up and try to 1v5 manmode or something equally stupid, they are still susceptible to being locked down and killed, whereas if a fed tank makes a bad play, they have a huge safety net and can't be punished nearly as hard. Even if they die, the other team is almost guaranteed to lose important ult CDs or survive long enough for the rest of their team to put out a ton of map pressure. Basically, it feels like there's more you can do against a fed assassin than against a fed tank, particularly in an immediate gameplay sense. The decision to let a tank who fucked up a bad engage just walk away because it's not worth the time or CDs to kill them is one of the most difficult and frustrating decisions to make, especially since it has to made as a team, and you always get that one guy who thinks it's just a capital idea to go try and finish off the 400 HP Amumu by walking right into the rest of his team.
I should probably append this by saying, I <i>do</i> like the current meta. The item that really brought them into the spotlight is jungle only, so while tanks are common (and can still be frustrating to deal with, though that can be said for almost any champion), they also aren't a completely dominant role, so there's still room for variety in the other lanes. Some of the stronger tanks are, well, too strong, but they aren't so strong that they feel mandatory in other roles (like they have in previous seasons), and since people finally see the value in having a front-line, you don't get so many yolo triple assassin comps either (which I hate playing as or against more than pretty much any other teamcomp). Things feel a bit more balanced now, both in the game balance sense and in a variety sense.
HandheldBrandon5 votesI will take a tank meta over the bullshit that is the assassin meta.
I will take a tank that can kill me over 30 seconds over an assassin that can kill me in 1 second.
People don't seem to realize just how toxic the assassin meta is and now that assassins can't instagib everyone anymore people are complaining.
OperationDEEZ12 votesMost assassins kits are toxic and attract toxic players.
Hell just look at 
he was DESIGNED to troll.
gubigubi2 votesI just flat out don't like tanks being strong I mean id rather have tanks be strong than healers be strong but I'm not a fan of tank meta. Specially as a top laner.
Loken Stoneheart2 votesI just flat out don't like tanks being strong I mean id rather have tanks be strong than healers be strong but I'm not a fan of tank meta. Specially as a top laner.
So, do you play like... midlaners top? That's the only thing I can figure if you don't like tanks but play toplane. Or those few champions that everybody else hates, the melee ADCs. In which case, I kindly ask you on behalf of everybody who played the lane before mages took over sometime between season 4 and 5, please go back to midlane. We want to be able to play the other 1/4 of the champion pool.
gubigubi1 votes
Then others I don't really ever play
and this scum bag
meatjunjun2 votesAnnoyance is preference. Majority of players in this forums hate assassins, so they prefer to whine about that.
I hate tank meta because it's so boring to have tanks strong. They just stand in the front and soak damage. Which, in my opinion, requires no skill.
People want to argue that Tanks have to think more about positioning than Assassins do, but I disagree. If you have a hard time deciding when to go in as a tank, you just suck. The formula is, is your team behind you?... GO IN.
Loken Stoneheart9 votesAnnoyance is preference. Majority of players in this forums hate assassins, so they prefer to whine about that.
I hate tank meta because it's so boring to have tanks strong. They just stand in the front and soak damage. Which, in my opinion, requires no skill.
People want to argue that Tanks have to think more about positioning than Assassins do, but I disagree. If you have a hard time deciding when to go in as a tank, you just suck. The formula is, is your team behind you?... GO IN.
If you have a hard time rightclicking as an ADC, you suck. If you have a hard time hitting R as an APC, you suck. If you have a hard time rolling your face off the keyboard as an assassin, you suck.
Most champions are honestly pretty dang easy in concept.
meatjunjun2 votesYes you could argue that this whole game in general is pretty easy. You just need to press QWER or right click the correct targets.
With that said, squishy champions only have one chance to pick the right target, because they will be focused. They only have 1-2 seconds of life in a team fight before they die, so they have to make it count.
Tanks on the other hand, will have 5-10 seconds of life because they won't be focused. So they can just stand in the middle, dilly dally and shake their p3n1ses in the air and won't get punished.
Loken Stoneheart6 votesYes you could argue that this whole game in general is pretty easy. You just need to press QWER or right click the correct targets.
With that said, squishy champions only have one chance to pick the right target, because they will be focused. They only have one to two seconds of life in a team fight before they die, so they have to make it count.
Tanks on the other hand, will have 5-10 seconds of life because they won't be focused. If they do, the enemy team is bad. So they can just stand in the middle of the enemy, dilly dally and shake their p3n1ses in the air and won't get punished.
If the tank is in the middle of your team, your team is bad, and your ADC is trash because he didn't rightclick the CC wall that is running at him and take him out in 4 shots.
ADCs frequently live significantly longer than tanks. Tanks never last 5-10 seconds unless they are ahead. ADCs tear through tanks like paper once they purchase LW, especially if they're a BotrK-able champion. Reminder that ADCs have lifesteal, which if they are not nuked down, prolongs their lifebar rather significantly.
I don't think you actually play this game if you think a tank can live 10 seconds, or that you think ADCs only last 1-2 seconds. Almost every fight I've ever seen involves the ADC lasting the longest in a fight because they have range, mobility, damage, and survivability. The only time this has ever been false was the reign of assassins.
kaykalos2 votesYes you could argue that this whole game in general is pretty easy. You just need to press QWER or right click the correct targets.
With that said, squishy champions only have one chance to pick the right target, because they will be focused. They only have 1-2 seconds of life in a team fight before they die, so they have to make it count.
Tanks on the other hand, will have 5-10 seconds of life because they won't be focused. So they can just stand in the middle, dilly dally and shake their p3n1ses in the air and won't get punished.
And i will answer this, tanks(not bruisers)after the engage supposed to hold the right cooldowns, to stop squishy champions to get their goals, if they fails its not a obvious mistake but still mistake, also u have to engage without get caught by a random low cooldown cc and dont forget when u go meele its harder to dodge skillshots
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