@meddler: you had a clear stance in the past concerning permaslows beeing toxic

Critmaster Garen·Dec 7, 2016·4 votes·531 views

i really want an official explanation why skarner warranted a rework because of a permaslow mechanic in his kit. and why at the same time keeping rylais passive as an option for dot mages to create permaslows from range is supposed to be desirable.

you (or at least the balance team back then) have removed similar mechanics like this in the past, like the old phage passive.

imo the stats were never the problem with rylais since its changes a year ago. it was always abuse cases of ranged champions completely disabling slow melee champions without efford with the item, due to permaslows, denying them any ability to act.

whats up with these double standarts? can you make a clear statement, if you want to have permaslows as part of the game, or not? and if yes, then why?

16 Comments

Big LincolnDec 7, 20164 votes

melee champions don't get to play the same game

VerxintDec 7, 20162 votes

You misunderstand.

Melee permaslows are toxic. Ranged permaslows are fine.

Why, who fucking knows. But that's always been the double standard.

TakazakiDec 7, 20162 votes

its because melle champion are much deadly then mages when they are up close and a lot of melee champions main counter play is to kite them

a permaslow effectively ruins this

VerxintDec 7, 20161 votes

But ranged champions can apply the permaslow from, you know, range?

if a melee gets in range to apply his in the first place, you've already failed to kite.

TakazakiDec 8, 20161 votes

"failed to kite" Ekko Fizz Fiora Katarina Kled LeeSin MasterYi Nocturne Renekton Rengar Riven MonkeyKing Zed Yasuo Warwick

yeah because gap closers are not a thing

VerxintDec 8, 20161 votes

Oh yeah, i guess you're right, I mean its not like those ranged champions have multiple forms of reposition, disengage, and disruption that they can do from range.

Oh wait... Ahri Azir Caitlyn Corki Draven Ezreal Gnar Graves Jayce Kalista Kennen Kindred Lucian Quinn Tristana Vayne Ziggs

TakazakiDec 8, 20161 votes

the only champion you invalidated witht hat are nocturne, rengar ( assuming he doesnt outright one shot you) and warwick ( but he locks you down for so long unless you qss it it wont matter)

further more only 2 of those champions can abuse rylas permaslow Ahri Azir

kennen wants you to get close to him so he can ult you

i cannot speak for ziggs because i havent seen in a long time everyone else is an adc who doesnt build frozen mallet

the only acception is gnar but he doesnt 100-0 you like mages and adc's can

AnonagonDec 7, 20162 votes

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Rylais and Frozen Mallet need to be changed to windowed effects or removed. Permaslows are bad on champion kits, and worse when any champion can itemize into them

Silly NeekoDec 7, 20161 votes

Perma slows toxic? Better report Nasus and Zilean

Critmaster GarenDec 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Perma slows toxic? Better report and

a single 3s - 5s duration slow is not the same as a repeatedly applied slow with dot abilities.

you can break wither once, and then nasus can not slow you again for about 10 seconds.

you cant break rylais dot slows, since theyre constantly reapplied. same reason why tenacity is useless in that case.

TakazakiDec 7, 20162 votes

nasus slow scale to the point of a crippling root whilst draining attack speed

Critmaster GarenDec 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

nasus slow scale to the point of a crippling root whilst draining attack speed

it is still a single, windowed effect. a lot of rylais slows with abilities like malzahars e+voidlings are constant effects over longer durations than just 5 seconds.

an adc hitting item 3140 , or a support using mikaels negates his wither for almost an entire fight.

imagine there was a version of wither that would hold you down for 10 to 20 seconds, entirely without the option to cleanse it. thats how bad rylais actually is on certain champions.

TakazakiDec 8, 20161 votes

its a 6 second CD with 40% CDR ( which nasus almost always has ) its so much stronger then rylas in terms of raw power which almost completely overides its 6 second cooldown

Jax CramerDec 7, 20161 votes

The old phage passive wasnt't remove because it offered a "permaslow". In fact it did not offer a permaslow because the slow was random. They changed the chance to slow enemies to a constant movement speed bonus which was a good change imo.

But I do agree with the double standards you are pointing out.

Critmaster GarenDec 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G8ybJvzj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-07T05:33:22.867+0000)

The old phage passive wasnt't remove because it offered a "permaslow". In fact it did not offer a permaslow because the slow was random. They changed the chance to slow enemies to a constant movement speed bonus which was a good change imo.

But I do agree with the double standards you are pointing out.

there was a discussion back then about changing phages slow from random, to a stacking slow with each hit, that started out lower and was supposed to stack 2 or 3 times.

they decided against it, because again. they hated the idea of easily accessable and reliable permaslows and deemed them toxic. the same permaslows dot mages are using right now.

and skarners rework, that was even deemed neccessary because of his permaslow in the first place was released around the same time, they changed rylais.

Jax CramerDec 7, 20161 votes

Guess that discussion went over my head back then.

And yeah I totally agree with you on the Skarner rework comparison.