Boards›Gameplay

I feel at this rate sion is gonna get olafed....

Yimmortal··73 votes·5,973 views

The changes on PBE to his W are quite significant. The lowered shield amount and the increased time to recast means that you probably will never get a chance to detonate your shield in a fight and instead will only be able to use it to soak up a miniscule amount of damage, This is quite a big nerf to his early jungle and to his damage since w is his primary damage tool in fights (q damage falls off, can be interrupted) and it might cause people to max it second instead. Sion's in a healthy state right now with clear strengths and weakness. I feel like this nerf is undeserved.

edit: I feel that this is relevant to my argument

{quoted}

I definitely see where the nerf is coming from.

http://champion.gg/champion/Sion/Top

53% winrate as a toplaner, 56% winrate as a jungler. And this is in solo queue.

In competitive, Sion is one of the strongest picks if they expect a laneswap/want to initiate a laneswap. He can reasonably safely farm from range, has boatloads of CC and a cheap build path to make him effective even when behind, can even jungle if the lane is completely against his favor, and can scale up into a real beast if he's even or ahead.

Winrate doesn't mean shit, amumu had 55% winrate for the longest time and no one bitched about him. Hell, even ashe has a 55%+ winrate in diamond but is she OP?

87 Comments

ProfDrDeath26 votes

I definitely see where the nerf is coming from.

http://champion.gg/champion/Sion/Top

53% winrate as a toplaner, 56% winrate as a jungler. And this is in solo queue.

In competitive, Sion is one of the strongest picks if they expect a laneswap/want to initiate a laneswap. He can reasonably safely farm from range, has boatloads of CC and a cheap build path to make him effective even when behind, can even jungle if the lane is completely against his favor, and can scale up into a real beast if he's even or ahead.

Yimmortal8 votes

{quoted}

I definitely see where the nerf is coming from.

http://champion.gg/champion/Sion/Top

53% winrate as a toplaner, 56% winrate as a jungler. And this is in solo queue.

In competitive, Sion is one of the strongest picks if they expect a laneswap/want to initiate a laneswap. He can reasonably safely farm from range, has boatloads of CC and a cheap build path to make him effective even when behind, can even jungle if the lane is completely against his favor, and can scale up into a real beast if he's even or ahead.

Winrate doesn't mean shit, amumu had 55% winrate for the longest time and no one bitched about him. Hell, even ashe has a 55%+ winrate in diamond but is she OP?

GuiltyGecko15 votes

I honestly think people don't complain about Amumu because he's considered a "noob stomping champion." and if you complain about a champion with the reputation of being a noob stomper then that means you're a noob. Amumu has the second highest win rate averaged across all elo's, but you don't see people complain, because complainers always get the same two answer: Don't group up and counter jungle him.

Amumu's win rate seems to only dip down significantly when you look at diamond, where it's around 52-53%, as opposed to 55-56% in bronze. I think the issue is that neither of the two above strategies are easy to pull off in solo queue.

Now am I saying Amumu is OP? I don't really have an opinion on it right now, but people who complain about Amumu generally get stigmatized with the "rofl noob" sticker.

Auryiel1 votes

When a champion is both very strong in competitive and SoloQ, it's time for some nerfs

Ori has not been nerfed since her buffs WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in Season 2 even though at times she pretty much owned half of mid lane (the other belonged to Gragas) because she's always been somewhat weak in SoloQ in terms of win rate

Opposite example : When's the last time you've seen Amumu be a contested pick in SoloQ? Early S3 deathball Mumu + MF strat? Yeah... So he's not changed very often

Sion is extremely strong in both competitive and SoloQ.

flibitydoo1 votes

Except Orianna has been nerfed

She got hit with a big flat damage nerf to her auto attacks back in season 4.

Currently, she has the lowest base AD at level 1 and level 18 compared to all other champions.

sources: Orianna change history (at bottom of page):http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Orianna/Background

List of champion base AD:http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions%27_attack_damage

The patch notes explaining the nerfs:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-414-notes

DanofDemacia4 votes

{quoted}

I definitely see where the nerf is coming from.

http://champion.gg/champion/Sion/Top

53% winrate as a toplaner, 56% winrate as a jungler. And this is in solo queue.

In competitive, Sion is one of the strongest picks if they expect a laneswap/want to initiate a laneswap. He can reasonably safely farm from range, has boatloads of CC and a cheap build path to make him effective even when behind, can even jungle if the lane is completely against his favor, and can scale up into a real beast if he's even or ahead.

Thankyou for your logic everyone else on here is nuts.

Synx74 votes

If i'll hear another guy saying about % win rate im going to rip my hair off. summoner 3

KING OF MASKS20 votes

It's tragic, really. He gets an amazing rework that breathes new life (or unlife) into him, only to get these bizarrely undeserved nerfs that are nearly crippling.

Yimmortal10 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING OF MASKS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G77JViIE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-14T19:21:55.843+0000)

It's tragic, really. He gets an amazing rework that breathes new life (or unlife) into him, only to get these bizarrely undeserved nerfs that are nearly crippling.

salty adc mains be like "I cant dodge that ult so sion es OP!!1!!1!!!1!"

IceKingChernobog11 votes

i main Twitch ,Jinx and his ult is laughably easy to dodge, two steps to the right or left and you're golden

RasCaelestis2 votes

I agree. Varus is my main ADC (though it's my least favourite role overall, he's the one ADC champion I feel comfortable with) and I once dodged a Sion ult while priming my Q. I'm not saying that to brag. I'm an awful ADC and I freely admit it, but if I can dodge it while slowed, ADC mains (or anyone, really) should not be complaining. Sion is strong, but he's far from OP. There are a lot of ways to play around his ult. Strafing is one of the easiest.

Anidan1 votes

I hear more complaints about people supposedly complaining about Sion than I do people actually complaining about Sion.

ADCs are the last people I'd see complaining about Sion - they dance around him like he's motionless, because to his counters he may as well be. The people I hear complain about him the most are Junglers and Top laners.

Thefriendlyorc2 votes

Over and over and over until the dead guy is a dead horse. Remember those videos of everyone in LoL laughing at his ult? Same guys calling for nerfs now. =/

bunies1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING OF MASKS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G77JViIE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-14T19:21:55.843+0000)

It's tragic, really. He gets an amazing rework that breathes new life (or unlife) into him, only to get these bizarrely undeserved nerfs that are nearly crippling.

yes a champion that is completely unstopable even in high elo is defintely not overpowered

love the tears of sion playing kidies that are about to have their freelo fixed

warpenguin55516 votes

Sion is pretty balanced currently imo. he doesnt need nerf

lB2kGRlc8y16 votes

Im surprised people are honestly complaining about sion when there are much more toxic champs out there with no counterplay.

Remlap12233 votes

Annie Have you seen my bear Tibbers?

RasCaelestis4 votes

Leblanc: "Yes. Have you seen me?"
jumps on you 100-0s you jumps back offscreen "Can you see me now?"

Remlap12232 votes

Leblanc Want to see me blow up your carry?

QEW

Leblanc Want to see me do it again?

RQEW

Sailor Mint9 votes

clear strengths and weakness.

What's Sion's weaknesses again?

Yimmortal41 votes

kite the slow fucker, dodge his skillshots, play a champion with % health damage like vayne? its isnt that hard

BakedLotion3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yeezus of Ionia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G77JViIE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-14T19:01:59.356+0000)

kite the slow fucker, dodge his skillshots, play a champion with % health damage like vayne? its isnt that hard

its not because of that. It's just that hes impossible to out-trade in lane along with insane scaling late game. Try to trade with him, he just uses shield and pops it in ur face along with e and q

not a starburst10 votes

Try to trade with him, he just uses shield and pops it in ur face along with e and q

And then you kill him. Because he has no follow-up damage, and you bought anti-tank items. If you didn't buy anti-tank items, you're either so fed it doesn't matter, so far behind you're irrelevant anyway, or you're a moron. Furthermore, his raw health stacking really isn't super scary lategame, unless you get to the really late lategame. Just buy BotRK and shred his raw health. People think "infinitely scaling" and go "OMFGZ!!! SUPER LATE GAME!!!" which isn't true. Sion's health stacking isn't really going to matter that much unless he AFK farms for 30 minutes. It's really useful for making him more tanky, but it doesn't automatically make him a lategame god. I mean, Nasus is actually best late mid game or early late game, before people get full build but after he gets farmed up.

Dystopiac1 votes

+1 for you mah man for not being a generic"NASUS IS GOD LATE GAME"and accurately pinpointing his strength window :)

Romans VI XXIII25 votes

every skill of his is easily dodged.

AtheosisX6 votes

I think there nerfs a deserved honestly.

Rinky Dinky5 votes

The increased cast time needs to go. He will be useless if that change goes through.

The shield scaling nerf is fair (He needs nerfs dude, stop trying to say he doesn't lmao), but this nerf ALONG with the recast time nerf is stupid.

A longer recast time will also fuck up his combo's.

TheDevice3 votes

I love how NOBODY can answer those simple questions lol

WHY does sion get a jungle and a damage nerf while other TANKIER junglers can clear jungle as fast or faster?

Why? Nobody knows :P

Thefriendlyorc1 votes

Cause he is apparently good at two lanes and WE CANT HAVE THAT.

bunies1 votes

{quoted}

I love how NOBODY can answer those simple questions lol

WHY does sion get a jungle and a damage nerf while other TANKIER junglers can clear jungle as fast or faster?

Why? Nobody knows :P

A, other tank junglers are not unstoppable top laners B, other tank junglers are not unstoppable end game tanks

TheDevice1 votes

{quoted}

A, other tank junglers are not unstoppable top laners B, other tank junglers are not unstoppable end game tanks

A: Sion is not unstoppable top lane B: Nasus. Sejuani.

Oshlet1 votes

A: His ult says otherwise

Badum-tch

Very Hard Engage2 votes

sions skills arent broken, he just emphasizes the broken items in league. (frozen heart + merc treds/ninja tabi + thornmail + warmogs) all the really strong tank items which actually make a person super durable are super great on a champion who doesn't need to build health right away to get tanky.

TheDevice2 votes

I think we should give him an attack speed nerf, it worked really well for Zed, thats for sure. XDD

I can't beleive sion is getting this nerf while champs like Amumu Warwick still have higher winrates.

http://pryorability.blogspot.com/2014/05/league-of-legends-tier-list-patch-47-ii.html

he has a really low winrate if this patch info is reliable.

Nearly every single one of his skills can be kited or avoided by ... moving out of the way lol. Sejuani Sej is still the better tank and Amumu Amumu is still better at tanking AND dealing out massive AOE damage.

But whatever lol What does the community know anyway.

ALSO: if he's supposed to be a pure tank and solely a top laner.. where's his buffs to that pure tank role if these nerfs are in? Where's the balance? They are just stripping him of usefulness and not giving anything in return.

WutsKraken1 votes

Longer cast time will basically Olaf him. Shield strength is tolerable to a degree. But cast time is stupid

His E nerf was justified because of how silly his E spam in lane was

But now his main damage and defense ability is being nerfed because of an item?! WTF This is like how Warwick was gutted because of Skirmisher's Sabre

Thefriendlyorc2 votes

They've nerfed every bit of Sion's kit save for the laughably easy to dodge ult and the passive everyone avoids.

Antonín Dvorák1 votes

May I ask what's wrong with Olaf?

Fredart1 votes

Nurfs happen, deal with it. in the past tf had a nice full map basic ability but then was nurfed and it became his ult, and ad janna got nurfed into the ground.

TheDevice1 votes

{quoted}

Nurfs happen, deal with it. in the past tf had a nice full map basic ability but then was nurfed and it became his ult, and ad janna got nurfed into the ground.

She got nerfed so hard she was one of the most played supports in this years spring LCS

DoFr1 votes

tanks are not meant to have a great laning phase as Sion's

just let that sink in

TheDevice1 votes

{quoted}

tanks are not meant to have a great laning phase as Sion's

just let that sink in

Sion is not a full tank. He's a bruiser. Anyone building him full tank does so for sloppy team comps or is not really comfortable with his kit. This is from a solo queue perspective so don't bring up LCS pls.

SionideCN1 votes

{quoted}

Sion is not a full tank. He's a bruiser. Anyone building him full tank does so for sloppy team comps or is not really comfortable with his kit. This is from a solo queue perspective so don't bring up LCS pls.

Uh no, it's a plain fact that the highest winrate builds on sion are full tank builds, as you build damage, the winrate of that build goes down. Just look at champion.gg

Also yes, sion still needs nerfs. But to his jungle, which is exactly where this nerf is targeted. His laning phase will be virtually unchanged by this. He'll still E you, W, Walk up, Charge Q, Release as you get to the edge, pop W, aa a few times.

This is focused on his jungle, and on his ability to take essentially no damage from the jungle at all by just tanking it all with his shield

Silents4291 votes

I think you are going way ahead of yourself if you think he is anywhere near getting "Olaf'd"

Thefriendlyorc1 votes

At this rate he will be the new olaf. Which sucks cause I've been sioning since his rework. Only to watch him slowly get picked apart, while lissandra, kennen, other tops get love taps. =/

ForgiveColour1 votes

i dont think you understand what the term olafed means

GloriousKaiser1 votes

The meta shift gave him that extra push to a be a solid pick. He's fun, easy to use and has clearly defined strengths and weaknesses.

I don't know if it's a lack of adaption or a loss in other areas of power but I don't think nerfs would be justified.

I mean mobile tops still make him suffer, his passive is still useless unless you die ulting into a team, his Q is abysmal against anyone who isn't cc'd. Overall easy to counter if you know what you're doing.

YOUGOTKILLEDBRO1 votes

I actually think Sion doesn't need a nerf, or atleast not a big one. People need to learn how to counter. He has a slow start, he is immobile, and predictable, I feel the best pick against him is Kalista.

General Spacey1 votes

So, people keep saying "Getting Olafed" is a bad thing. I spent many years on OddOnes stream. He plays alot of Olaf and he has a really good win rate with him. I realized thatOlaf wasnt that bad after all. But then i was wondering if it was the legendary General showing his skills. I went hunting (Ty API challenge) and i saw that olaf was actually still a pretty strong champion. People just didnt know how to play him after the nerfs. Go watch OddOnes stream nubs. P.S. Olaf win rate goes up as you go up in tiers.

WolfBV1 votes

Ashe has a 100% winrate in Master right now. Better nerf.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Yimmortal

It's time to add a fifth champion attribute... Mobility.
Gameplay135 comments
208
votes
I hope not the only one who thinks riot went full retard with the upcoming patch
Gameplay127 comments
151
votes
For a champion designated by Riot as assassin/skirmisher, Ekko sure is tanky.
Gameplay71 comments
105
votes
Silvers across the world today be like
Memes & Games78 comments
99
votes
I don't think Thunderlord's is OP but I don't get why every damage over time ability triggers it.
Gameplay52 comments
86
votes
Why does every new champion these days have to have like 6 passives and 20 abilities?
Gameplay146 comments
81
votes