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the ekko hate and the "ekko is broken/OP/imbalanced" threads need to stop.

lolipopevelynn··9 votes·1,760 views

i see so many of these threads of people getting pub stomped by a champ that has been out not even for a week now. so i am going to explain the MANY problems ekko has right now.

first things first, i want to address the "tons of damage" ekko deals. he does NOT deal any more damage than a fed Leblanc Katarina Fizz or even Veigar . people that are bitching about his damage are the same people who bitch about lb/kat/fizz/akali/zed. GD simply hates burst champions and want them gutted, this is FACT.

but that asside, lets look at his damage.

Passive: 「 27 / 39 / 51 / 63 / 75 / 87 / 99 / 111 / 123 / 135 / 147 / 159 / 171 / 183 / 195 / 207 / 219 / 231 」(+ 70% AP)

it takes 3 hits to even get this damage off, but aside from that LBs Q does more damage if you proc it with W or E or another Q.

Q: 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 / 280 (+ 80% AP) 」alone this does about the same damage as an ahri Q. the reason you may see it do insane bursts at times is because it triggers his passive. if you see 2 rings beneath your character, do not get hit by this skill. if this doesnt trigger his passive it actually does very mediocre damage.

E: 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+ 20% AP)

below average skill damage. just like with Q its only used to get his passive to proc which makes the small burst from his E that much more powerful. alone it does almost nothing.

R: 200 / 350 / 500 (+ 130% AP)

his R is completely balanced believe it or not. the people who die to it are the idiots that stand on his ghost. funnily enough those are the same idiots who stand on azir's soldiers as if they dont exist.

TL;DR: ekkos entire burst depends heavily on him procing his passive. if he cant proc his passive multiple times on a target then he has no burst. this is why you see him go in and out alot because his passive has a 3 sec CD. this means he has counter play unlike kat who just jumps in and kills everything around her or LB who goes in and just flat out kills you without warning.

next thing i want to mention is his TERRIBLE laning phase when matched against certain champs.

see these champs here? Swain Malzahar Chogath Darius Garen Riven

they make ekko a very very sad boy. darius, swain and malz are the worst in the line up. he CAN NOT even cs vs these 2 champs. like he litterally cant do anything at all. its not like zed who can just use his shadows to CS, its not like fizz who can just jump in and kill you once he gets tired of malz/swain BS. ekko has to just sit there and take it and HOPE that his jungler is not complete trash and lets the malz/swain overextend for 20+ mins without a single gank.

cho/garen are tanky enough to deal with his burst + they have pretty long silences to stop his #LCSBIGPLAYS. riven just flat stomps him. more reliable stun, more reliable shield, and instant non 3 hit damage.

26 Comments

Mandang07 votes

I'd reply in detail, but you realize I could make your exact same post listing Ekko's skills, and come to the opposite conclusion regarding Ekko's balance, right? I'm not even talking about wrong or right, I'm talking about whether restating a kit and selectively comparing aspects of it to other skills (not other kits) is a valuable thing to do. (Hell, you don't even stick to skill-to-skill, but try comparing Ekko's passive to LB's Q)

Is Ekko not as good at bursting as the best burster in league? Sure. Is Ekko weaker at splitpushing than the best splitpushing assassin in the game? Sure. Is Ekko weaker at zone denial and control than best champs in those categories? Sure.

Does Ekko not beating champs at their strengths mean anything? No. Come back when Veigar has mobility. Come back when LB has AOE CC. Come back when Kat has any CC at all.

As for the other 2 flaws in your argument:

1) You place all the burden for Ekko landing his ult on his target. A good Ekko also has a say in whether his ult lands, and the gameplay you think the enemy has to prevent this is another strength of Ekko's (zone denial). **2) "X champion has a bad matchup, so they're balanced" ** Every champion ever released, no matter how imbalanced, has had a bad matchup. Every champion has also had some amount of counterplay (pink the shroud, dodge the spears, etc). None of that makes them balanced.

ZileanUltJesusOP1 votes

This^^^^^^

lolipopevelynn2 votes

{quoted}

I'd reply in detail, but you realize I could make your exact same post listing Ekko's skills, and come to the opposite conclusion regarding Ekko's balance, right? I'm not even talking about wrong or right, I'm talking about whether restating a kit and selectively comparing aspects of it to other skills (not other kits) is a valuable thing to do. (Hell, you don't even stick to skill-to-skill, but try comparing Ekko's passive to LB's Q)

Is Ekko not as good at bursting as the best burster in league? Sure. Is Ekko weaker at splitpushing than the best splitpushing assassin in the game? Sure. Is Ekko weaker at zone denial and control than best champs in those categories? Sure.

Does Ekko not beating champs at their strengths mean anything? No. Come back when Veigar has mobility. Come back when LB has AOE CC. Come back when Kat has any CC at all.

As for the other 2 flaws in your argument:

1) You place all the burden for Ekko landing his ult on his target. A good Ekko also has a say in whether his ult lands, and the gameplay you think the enemy has to prevent this is another strength of Ekko's (zone denial). **2) "X champion has a bad matchup, so they're balanced" ** Every champion ever released, no matter how imbalanced, has had a bad matchup. Every champion has also had some amount of counterplay (pink the shroud, dodge the spears, etc). None of that makes them balanced.

  1. what a ridiculous counter argument. a good PLAYER will always know where ekkos ghost is and actively try to avoid standing on it...

  2. i never claimed he was balanced or imbalanced because of counter picks. i was simply pointing out how strong those champs are against him.

my main argument is that people are crying about a burst assassin as if he has no weaknesses/flaws and he is a perfect free elo champ. this is far from the case. ekko has many flaws and his burst isnt even the strongest out there. infact i wouldnt even place his burst in the top 5.

Svddenly1 votes
  1. what a ridiculous counter argument. a good PLAYER will always know where ekkos ghost is and actively try to avoid standing on it...

You can't see the ghost if you don't have vision of Ekko.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Derek the Ferret,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G0bjwYrb,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2015-06-01T18:15:06.458+0000)

You can't see the ghost if you don't have vision of Ekko.

why are you chasing ekko into the fog of war? why are you chasing ANY champion that you dont have vision of for that matter?

Svddenly1 votes

Jungle. Bushes OP.

Then it'll be "Why are you chasing ANY champion that goes into a bush?"

And soon "Why are you chasing ANY champion?"

Joking aside,

I was in a game against an Ekko. The two teams were grouped in mid lane for a fight. Then Ekko walks into the brush after getting pretty close to us and his clone disappears. Guess what happened next?

Lt Woofums2 votes

a good PLAYER will be able to place ekko's ghost at a position where it's disadvantageous to dodge it. it's the same as the crap argument with nid spears: "oh, a good player will dodge them...", sure but just as easy to say a good player will land them. players actively try to avoid spears too, you know.

and people aren't complaining about a burst assassin bursting, people are complaining about a burst assassin shielding, healing, aoe stunning, slowing, etc. if this was just a burst issue, people would still be complaining about lb.

Snowfox4 votes

Many of the people (myself included) are irritated as his kit shows inconsistencies with riots current agenda. Many champions have been nerfed because of features that didn't have counterplay e.g. Zed's jump or Veigar's stun. Ekko has an AOE instastun that gives him a shield and an instant crossmap jump that heals and does damage.

lolipopevelynn2 votes

{quoted}

Many of the people (myself included) are irritated as his kit shows inconsistencies with riots current agenda. Many champions have been nerfed because of features that didn't have counterplay e.g. Zed's jump or Veigar's stun. Ekko has an AOE instastun that gives him a shield and an instant crossmap jump that heals and does damage.

ekkos stun has a shit ton of counter play. it takes 3 seconds to land. you are just bad if you get initiated by it alone.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

You wanna know how ridiculous his ult is? I was playing Karma against Ekko mid lane, did fine in lane against him but come team fight, they are pushing our base, Thresh and I see Ekko and go after him. I'm only missing like a QUARTER health, I go and tether him, root him and am about to ult. Thresh is doing damage too. As I'm throwing my ult, Ekko ults, KILLS me and Thresh who is at FULL health basically. That is fucking RIDICULOUS. Nerf him to hell I say.

lolipopevelynn2 votes

{quoted}

You wanna know how ridiculous his ult is? I was playing Karma against Ekko mid lane, did fine in lane against him but come team fight, they are pushing our base, Thresh and I see Ekko and go after him. I'm only missing like a QUARTER health, I go and tether him, root him and am about to ult. Thresh is doing damage too. As I'm throwing my ult, Ekko ults, KILLS me and Thresh who is at FULL health basically. That is fucking RIDICULOUS. Nerf him to hell I say.

you deserve it for standing on his ghost.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

We weren't standing on it, but how rude of you. His ghost caught up to us but still we had him rooted and Thresh had his hook in case he tried to escape.

Catastrop2 votes

{quoted}

You wanna know how ridiculous his ult is? I was playing Karma against Ekko mid lane, did fine in lane against him but come team fight, they are pushing our base, Thresh and I see Ekko and go after him. I'm only missing like a QUARTER health, I go and tether him, root him and am about to ult. Thresh is doing damage too. As I'm throwing my ult, Ekko ults, KILLS me and Thresh who is at FULL health basically. That is fucking RIDICULOUS. Nerf him to hell I say.

That really isn't a big deal as it could have been avoided had you used some common sense and not chase an Ekko whose ghost is probably in your path. I don't mean to sound like an ass but that was rather stupid.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

We weren't chasing, as he was farming at the beginning of our base, and didn't leave. His ghost was nowhere to be seen around the part where we were rooting him. How rude of you. We weren't stupid.

Apollocliptic2 votes

The guy shouldn't have called you stupid, especially without context, but his ghost was there or he could not ulti. If he dashes, his ghost can appear suddenly, but you said he was farming. If it's on CD, the ghost appears before the spell comes off CD, so you still would have seen it. So it was there, you were focussed on the kill and missed it. Karma would get bursted by his ulti, she is squishy, he is assassin, and it's not like he didn't hit you with anything else (Karma's root is fairly slow to hit so that's at least a Q) Zed or Kata could have done the same thing. Only difference is Zed is untargetable and unavoidable if you don't have certain items, and Kata is instant, Ekko has a rather large warning, but tunnel vision is what got you. He is not over powered or ridiculous because you got hit by his ultimate, he just outplayed you, sorry to say this because it might sound mean, but you're example does not show him as over powered at all. As for thresh, if he was full life and he DID buy tank items (I've seen Thresh rely entirely on passive and only build Utility, and especially not MR) but assuming he was a tank, Ekko should not have killed him with a single ulti, if that's how it happened, then that is OP, but my guess is that thresh wasn't at full hp, also, there's no reason why the two of you should BOTH be standing on his ghost. You should split up to make harder targets, since both his Q and R (also W) are AOE. So, if you were both hit by ulti, you were both standing together, and if that's the case, he would have hit you both with at least one Q, probably proccing ludens Echo, and after landing ulti, he would be able to AA proccing his Lichbane (if he built it which I am assuming he did). That would kill Thresh if he wasn't full tank. and the ulti and Q alone is enough to kill Karma, without the procs, so yeah, you were outplayed, or more so, you didn't position yourself well and gifted him the double kill. I could have done the same to you with Orianna, Galio or Anirva, non of which are OP

SnugglePuggle941 votes

His ghost was nowhere to be seen. We were looking for it. I still think its a good example of his being OP as its the truth. HE IS. And yes, it did happen that way Thresh was at full health, I saw it. His ghost could've crawled up on us as I was rooting but still it's ridiculous. I did position myself well and Thresh did too. His ult came off CD as we were about to kill him. My vision was good, I didn't have tunnel, I had been looking all over making sure we had people on base, I saw Ekko so did Thresh, we went after him. He was low health too.

Apollocliptic2 votes

I'm sorry, but his Ulti does not work without the ghost, IT WAS THERE, saying it wasn't there but it might have crept up on you means it was there, but once you started attacking you didn't keep looking out for it (hence me saying tunnel vision) just because you were aware when you engaged, doesn't mean you didn't get tunnel vision afterwards, please do not take it personally, it happens to EVERYONE, I've even seen LCS players make this mistake because it is a human response, once you fixate on something, you stop looking at other details (watch the Will Smith movie Focus, it explains it pretty well and was a good film :) ) And as I said, the ghost appears before it's off CD, so it is walking around for about 4 seconds before he can activate it (it's actually really annoying because sometimes you think you can ulti but realise it's not available yet). Finally, your positioning WAS NOT GOOD if you are standing next to each other. Please, if you disagree with everything else I say then fine, but this point you must know, Do Not Cluster against an AOE champ. His ulti has a fairly small radius, so you must have been standing (literally must, this is not a guess) right next to each other, for him to hit you both with it.

Sorry, I also have to add, that as I deduced, if you are both standing on top of each other (for ulti to hit) and you were able to land your root (which with a Karma Q would have killed a low hp Ekko, so if you say low do you mean +50%?) then you were in his Q range for a duration longer than it's CD. Meaning he ALMOST definitely landed a Q on You AND thresh, and Luden's Echo is also AOE, meaning there's close to NO chance that Thresh had full HP. The fact that you didn't see the ghost, proves that you were not looking at Thresh, you were looking at Ekko's hp, so you didn't notice the return damage (which is 30% of the kills i've scored as Ekko, retreating while landing double Q's to tunnel vision enemies)

I'm not saying your vision was not good, but you did not see the ghost, it does not come out of nowhere, it takes time to form and position. You saw Ekko, you checked champion positions, you checked Thresh and Your hP before engaging, you checked Ekko's hp before engaging, you landed your root and hit your spells. But YOU DID NOT SEE THE GHOST which is reasonable because of everything else you were monitoring, but it's not EKko character design fault. You walked into a trap and got punished by the assassin that led you there

I'd like to add that if Thresh landed his Q like you stated, he has an excuse as he kind of roots himself in the progress, but there's no reason you should have walked ontop of Thresh, you can move omnidirectionally while you have your root up

SnugglePuggle942 votes

You may be right on the part as we were attacking I didnt look out for it but before I rooted I was. Maybe since I played many games after I don't remember all that's happened. If I recall correctly Thresh was following behind me, prbly trying to be close to throw his shield or something, but I was trying not to cluster against him. Thresh did that and its how Ekko got both of us together. I do remember as I was rooting, he did not throw his Q or anything, just waited for my root to stop and then bam just ulted us. He was low, missing some health, not enough for my root to kill him, but I knew my RQ was going to, but as it was being cast he ulted, therefore making my spell miss and he kills me and Thresh before I can do anything. It definitely was not a trap, he was just getting out of a situation which we surely would've won if his numbers on his AOE damage weren't so high and he didn't get such a heal out of it.

Apollocliptic1 votes

OK, fair enough, I've said many times before I do think he's numbers are a bit high, and a late game Ekko (no matter how hard it is to land) can kill any non tank with just his ulti, I think that is a bit hardcore. If you're really unlucky he can even land a 5 man ulti sometimes. He shouldn't be able to kill Thresh in one hit, but I'm certain they're gonna nerf those numbers anyway (especially the base heal on his ulti)

I think the % heal is all his ulti should do, because it makes sense with his concept, the base heal is just a random buff.

I still stand by the my opinion that he is a well designed champion, but reiterate that it's his numbers that are too high, which they usually do with new champs, and in this case obviously did because his drawsbacks are so high and they needed to see people play against him to judge where they should tweak it

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

We weren't chasing, as he was farming at the beginning of our base, and didn't leave. His ghost was nowhere to be seen around the part where we were rooting him. How rude of you. We weren't stupid.

ya you were stupid. his ghost is seen at all times as it is ALWAYS 4 seconds behind him. you simply wasnt paying attention to it and let it catch up to you.

also, his ghost trail appears about 4 seconds before its off CD. so you have no excuse

SnugglePuggle941 votes

The hell I'm not stupid. Wow, how rude. If you had been reading the comments, like I said before I had been watching for it and it wasn't there until I had rooted him and was about to ult.

Darth Ponzius5 votes

3 second to land = instastun

Apollocliptic1 votes

Furthest thing from an instastun possible

Catastrop4 votes

This entire post, I agree with it. People are going on about his dumb ult and I really have to wonder how you miss a copy of a champion running around. Not even that, the ult isn't even instant, you have time to run out of range unless you were standing right on top of the ghost which is rather stupid by the way. Then there's his stun. 3 second proc time is all I have to say. His Q, if you're hit by the first shot, just step to the side. Which side you go to depends on where Ekko goes to redirect the second part of Q.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

LOL What you basically just said is "Ekko has to use his passive to get a kill! So you should actually not be a nerd and just try to q someone for a kill. That's why he doesn't have his E! :D" trololol

DrNova1 votes

There is a grain of truth in it all. Ekko is a little overtuned and if played correctly a safe champ.

But all these threads want him gutted, unable to fufill his assasin role, and unplayable. Hopefully when he does recieve some attention it is reasonable and not heavyhanded.

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