"You use squishy, easy to burst top laners, and that's why you hate and cry about Riven"

YumaS2Astral··89 votes·9,312 views

I am a top laner main.

Four of my favorite top laners are Vladimir, Fizz, Hecarim, andChogath.

None of them are squishy at all. Vlad gains HP with his passive and he generally buy tanky AP items such as Liandry and Rylai. Fizz is not naturally tanky but he can be tanky when built AD. Hecarim is naturally tanky and that is unquestionable. Cho'Gath, well... has his ult.

There are also many other non-squishy top laners that I like to use, and they are actually the majority of the top laners I use: Shen Gnar DrMundo Irelia Trundle and more recently I am starting to use TahmKench as a top laner.

That said, I still think that Riven should be changed. She is way too powerful, and I say that despite playing tanky champions who are supposed to beat her.

They are just supposed. On theory, tankyness should counter Riven. But the problem is that items like item 3035, item 3134, and item 3071 negate a lot of that tanykness. A good Riven will always rush those items if they notice that the enemy is stacking armor. It is always the same thing, for example, when I play Shen. I even start with armor quints; and win trades against Riven. But the moment she has Last Whisper, I can no longer win trades against her, no matter how much armor I have.

When people think about Riven, they say "burst damage" but Riven actually has a lot of sustained damage, enough to deal with many bruisers and tanks. This is because of her Q and her passive, if executed with animation cancelling. She will never kill a tank/buiser as fast as she can kill a squishy, but she can, and will negate their damage with her shield. Keep in mind that by purchasing armor/HP, you are sacrificing damage. If you don't actually have the damage to kill Riven before she kills you, then it doesn't matter how much armor you stack, she will kill you regardless.

That's why I like to play Malphite against Riven, even though he is not one of my favorite top laners. He is one of the best because not only he gains even more armor the more armor you stack, but his offensive abilities actually scale with armor, allowing his damage to scale and allowing him to actually have enough damage to deal with Riven later. However, Malphite has other problems that make him not be the best pick against Riven. For example, apart from his ult, there isn't much that he can do to peel a Riven off a teammate. His Q is not of much help due to her dashes. And if Malphite has powerful AP champions as her allies, Malphite will have problems, since he is not very useful against mages.

I still think that Riven is too powerful and obnoxious, and that is not because she can 1-shot me. That's because no matter what I do against her, I am always feeling helpless.

196 Comments

LongHair Fox36 votes

Riven is not supposed to be countered by tankyness. Unless you can burst through her shield or cc her while her shield is not up then riven pretty much wins the trade. As a side note I should mention that fizz, hecarim, irelia, and vladimir needs items before they get tanky and the first three typically rushes tri force which does not make them tanky.

In lane riven is countered by champions with point and click poke or cc that disables her q and shield. This means maokai, ryze, nautilus, and many others. In teamfights she is melee so pretty much any cc that stuns or roots for longer than 1 sec kills her while your adc gets free shots.

Puppet33r8 votes

In teamfights she is melee so pretty much any cc that stuns or roots for longer than 1 sec kills her while your adc gets free shots

Lol good luck trying to stun when she does flash>3rd q>stun>execute with a whole bunch of aa canceling bs in between(and all of it is aoe).

LongHair Fox4 votes

flash>3rd q>stun>execute is not be able to 100>0 anyone unless she is so fed it does not matter anyway (a jinx with nothing but BT would stand with around 20% health after it). Coincicentally her 3rd q got the longest cast time of her q's and with a ping under 500 you can probably root her as maokai before she gets more than that off on your adc. The two second root + knockback gives your adc plenty of time to then kill her and to even do this she needs her flash, opponent carry needs to have no flash to respond and then hope there is nothing to cc her.

Puppet33r7 votes

you are missing aa canceling bs in between and hydra active and ignite which is more then enough to kill adc and deal around half hp dmg to anyone else who happened to be in the 275 range nearby no matter how tanky their build is. Not to mention that q will be available again cause of the cd counting down after first q.

LongHair Fox3 votes

flash>3rd q>stun>execute was assuming 3 aa's which can only happen over enough time that any tank or support could react. Also remember I did this assuming riven had full build and the jinx had only a bloodthirster for defense.

I am not against nerfing her as I don't play her and do feel her aoe damage is slightly too high for how good a lane she has but I am calling bullshit on 6q's, 2 stuns, 3 shields, and 21 aa's being instant (note this is wildely over exagerated).

Puppet33r2 votes
  1. You won't belive how quick riven players can execute this combo
  2. anyone who is in 275 range will also get a stun/knockup(so i don't see anything tanks/supports can do(unless it is lulu))
  3. unless jinx goes full tank her items won't matter as you are unable to do anything in stunlock(and the worst part you can't qss your way out of knockup)
  4. you will be surprised how close to reality your last statement is. It is 4 q's(with which you can cover pretty much any distance), stun, knockup, and indeed around 3 shields(Watch last game with Fnatic vs Roccat. Especially those towerdives where she blocks like 3 full turret shots with her shields)
LongHair Fox3 votes

Ok. You are calling me out on my statements (which I dont mind) so let's remove the fluff and asumptions and let me spell out my point:

  1. I have seen a lot of boxbox's stream including some of his animation cancelling vidoes (which this combo btw does not use). This combo using 3 autos can be cast an about 1.5-2 seconds asuming you want 3 autos. Yes I do believe how quick that is. Assuming reaction time + ping takes you 0.5 seconds that gives you 1 sec to cc her which should be plenty even including cast animations. A good player might even see her moving within flash range and cc her preemptively again making her an easy take down for the adc.

  2. Again I don't care if riven is buffed or nerfed or whatever but I do make sure facts are kept straight: Alistar Amumu Annie Bard Blitzcrank Braum Chogath Elise Fiddlesticks Gragas Janna Kayle Leona Lulu Malphite Maokai Morgana Nami Nautilus Ryze Sejuani Sion Sona Soraka TahmKench Thresh Taric Veigar Velkoz Vi Zac I might have missed some but all of these can pass as tanks, bruiser, or supports and all have a cc or a way to save their adc which has a little cast time or in case of veigar can easily be used preemptively. Some of them need their ult sure but this is a supports job so ult is a small price to pay.

  3. A level 18 jinx with 9 armor armor from her runes (a common setup) and a fully stacked BT should has a bit over 4000 effective physical health while that combo assuming item 3074 item 3072 item 3035 item 3158 item 3142 and a last 80 ad item would only do about 3500 physical damage. Note that this setup is highly offensive for a riven player and assumes last item IE, essence reaver, or extra BT where most riven players normally goes either a defensive item or BC. I can do this a bit more rigorous counting in fully stacked spell and blade weaving but I doubt it would amount to more than the defensive item the jinx will get and the less than full damage I used for the ult. Also remember that any adc is going to get shields, heals or whatever the support can give them to boost their tankiness making an instant burst less likely. A longer combo could maybe do it but that would make even more time for the adc to get peel.

  4. Weaving in aa's I know more or less exactly how long that takes. You can do animation cancelling to speed up things but then you miss out on aa's. Also note that 4 full casts of q (which can be cast 3 times per cd) would take at least 23.4 seconds assuming you can instant cast all the strikes and have maxed out cdr. Is this fast for a skill with 3 uses per cd? yes. Is it instant? no. Can it be peeled? very much yes.

Puppet33r1 votes

You realize that like pretty much all of those champs you mentioned(with a few exceptions) will be engaging on to the enemy backline instead of babysitting their adc? And if they won't, well, they will just get blown up by their whole enemy team. I also have no clue where did you get those numbers or what advanced math you used to calculate execute dmg on ulti or how did you take into account all those stacking %dmg increases in offensive masteries. Anyway...I'm not saying that riven is impossible to deal with by your entire team. What I'm saying is that riven has a HUGE advantage over other champions(mostly its ad shield with low cd and ridiculous mobility that allows her to survive ridiculous amounts of dmg with just 1 defensive item) and requires very specific planning as if she was some goddamn raidboss. While with pretty much everyone else you can just get away with using your champion's kit wisely.

LongHair Fox2 votes

I think i mentioned that i did not include the stacked spell and blade weaving which are the only ones makng it slightly difficult to calculate but i did not use any defensive masteries for jinx either. As for how I calculated it then it is actually not that complicated once you have done it a few times so only takes 10 minutes. For the execute I used the maximum damage that it could do (which would require the target to be at 0 hp) to see if there was any chance at all for a one shot.

As for the champions then Alistar and Annie should stay behind unless he is the only engage, Bard should stay behind unless he can flank with his protal thing, Blitzcrank stays behind almost always, Braum should guard the most fed, Chogath should stay behind as a tank and peel as he deals no damage unless he has ap (ap chogath is a bit different), Elise should wait for an oppotunity to go forward and until then use her stun for peeling or catching carries, Fiddlesticks should dive if he is a jungler but as support his adc does way more damage and he should stay behind, Gragas can either peel or dive depending on which adc is most fed, Janna should always stay behind, Kayle should have about same position as an adc, Leona should engage but can also peel if there are other engagers, Lulu should stay behind, Maokai should stay behind and peel unless he plays with a low damage carry and a lot of divers, Morgana Nami should stay behind and peel, Nautilus should stay behind unless he needs to lock down a carry so it can be bursted, Ryze should have about same positioning as an adc but maybe a bit more forward, Sejuani Sion can dive but unless there is follow up they are better peelers, Sona unless she needs ult for initiating then it should be used for peel, Soraka silence op against riven, TahmKench should always stay near the most fed champ, Thresh Taric Veigar Velkoz except for threshhas no mobility and all have decent to great peeling and should maintain same poistion as adc unless it is a catch, Zac can both dive and peel due to cc from his ult and e.

Of the ones i mentioned earlier Vi Amumu Malphite are not included as their main job is to initiated and they have poor to no peel outside of their ults. Do however note that there are most likely difference between different tiers of play with higher tiers focused more on peeling and soloq vs premade teams with premades again focusing more on peeling.

Puppet33r1 votes

You, my friend, either incredibly high or just plain ignorant. Can't believe I'm gonna have to spell it out... Have you even seen offensive masteries since season 3? Double-edged sword : +2%, executioner : +5%, Spell/Blade weaving : +3%, Havoc : +3%... and to top it off free 6% arm./magic pen. And all of this vs +36 hp and +3% hp in those puny 9 points in def.

I also have no clue why you decided to name every tank/support and what you think they should do. And reading those made me very unsure whether you even know how this game works... I mean Annie and Nautilus staying behind to peel is just comical. Ryze peeling and positioning like adc? Have you even seen ryzes these days? those op bastards will run in front with ulti catching fools with cages. And if you stay behind with Sion Sejuani Zac you are clearly doing something wrong. And I'm not just talking about soloqueue. Watch any of the big lcs games and show me Alistar who wouldn't engage.

LongHair Fox3 votes

None of them should run past the carry that riven is anyway. If no one peels then yeah sure riven, master yi, shyvanna, udyr and so on becomes godlike but an adc needs at least one champion to peel for a full damage build to work if there are any divers on the opponents team. On alistar then lcs and soloq is very different and even there alistar stays behind if there are other engagers.

On the offensive tree then ok lets go do the full calculation: Riven with 21/9/0, full build using the most popular items (item 3074 item 3071 item 3072 item 3035 item 3142 item 3158 ) and she does the combo flash>aa> 3rd q>aa>stun>aa>execute which takes 1.5-2.0 seconds. Jinx with 21/9/0, full build including fully stacked item 3072 and a defensive item.

Riven AD is then (107 base + (75 item 3074 + 80 item 3072 + 40 item 3035 + 40 item 3071 + 30 item 3142 + 18 brute force + 4 martial mastery + 13 (runes))*1.05 warlord)*1.2 blade of the exile = 506.40 AD

Her combo then does 300% AD + 150 (aa + passive) + 90 + 60% AD (third q) + 170 + 100% bonus AD (ki burst) + 160 + 60% bonus AD (increased by missing health up to 200% resulting in 380 + 180% bonus AD in best case) = 790 + 360% AD + 280% Bonus AD = 3732.512 Asuming fully stacked blade and spell weaving and always on executioner we end up with 3627.68*1.03 (blade+spell weaving)*1.02 (double edged sword)*1.05 (executioner) * 1.02 (1 point warlord) = 4199.79488181

If you find an error please tell me but remember that her ult might not do its maximum damage due to higher health on the target and executioner is not going to be on all the time as I asumed here.

Jinx then has the following healt: (1912 (base) + 36 (veteran scars) + 350 item 3072 + 450 item 3102)*1.03 (juggernaut) = 2830.44 hleath If we now assume a fully stacked BC on her (which it will most likely not be) her effective armor against the riven with last whisper is (82.4 (base) + 9 (runes))*0.7 (black cleaver) *0.65 (last whisper) *0.94 (devestating strikes) = 39.09178 Making her effective health = 2806.44 * (100+39.09178/100) = 3936.90937783

Making the combo barely able to kill the jinx assuming she does not get any peel, damage reduction, shields, heals, or life steal over the 2 second duration the combo takes. Do also note that an unstacked black cleaver would not have been able to get the kill and a not at all if the riven had a defensive item or jinx had the passive from banshee's.

Again note I do not care if she should be nerfed or not but this combo only barely oneshots one of the squishiest adc's when there is no peel and everything has been perfectly set up and stacked towards riven.

EDIT: Forgot this forum does not take asterixes so put in multiplications where it makes sense yourself

Puppet33r1 votes

Dude, the reason riven gets to one shot carries is that she gets ridiculously ahead in lane. I mean every time I play vs Riven on top its kill or be killed(or farm scraps under turret hoping that your jungler won't be a dickhead who will just flame that you are bad). And the funniest thing here is that all riven players I played against absolutely refuse to farm under turret and have no idea how to play from behind(which is what you will have to do if you thought picking tank or weak early champion was a good idea). So if you were unlucky and she won her first trade and got heritem 1037 or, god forbid, item 3077 there won't be a phase in game where your jinx will get to item 3102 . Its game over.

As far as the math goes. Your calculations are fine(except for no crescent active which is another 100% ad) but stop pretending that riven goes 1v5. Riven will have some poke to soften up this carry, or a dive buddy, or some buffs to keep her in teamfight. And this 2 sec combo is not her only window of opportunity to deal damage. Her burst might not be that high(definitely not as high as Leblanc , Viktor or Rengar), but her sustained damage is completely off the charts with low cds and ad shield to keep her in the fight. Also none of the aforementioned champs have this kind of hard aoe cc to guarantee that this burst lands.

LongHair Fox1 votes

Laning phase is another question entirely and while tghe jinx is going to be poked down or whatever so will the riven be and having a support+tank guard a hyper carry is not uncommon so it all depends on the poke, dive buddies and how good the peel is

LongHair Fox3 votes

Not at all sure were this argument fits? She has an ad shield and can therefore ignore peel without dive buddies? hardly. In teamfights the shield will not do much if she gets some cc. It is duels and lane that shield really shines.

LongHair Fox1 votes

Yes it can ignore poke... not sure how that benefits her in a teamfight. If she uses the dash in a direction not towards the adc then that adc gets harder to get to. On the amount then a 1.5 second cc is enough to get 3 aa off from an adc and assuming about 400 ad and 50% crit chance then those deal on average 700 damage for a total average of 2100 damage far beyond her shield. Since it is very likely that the team has more cc than just once (chompers comes to mind in the jinx example) if we take that into account the root duration is now 3 seconds, enough to get 4200 damage off from an adc with no steroids or spells which is about the effective health of the riven after lw and without damage from the cc spells. Note that I have not included any additional attacks due to distance either

LeeDark4 votes

She did two Q's and you stayed within Flash range? That's your own fault.

Puppet33r5 votes

Should I run to base every time i see her do 2 q's? because 3rd q also covers some distance and there's aoe on it and aoe incereases after ulti.

RIP Tahm Kench1 votes

That's like my team telling me yesterday that I should have went back after my first camp in the jungle because Shaco killed me at red. Sure, I'll give up my buffs and raptors and delay my level 3 just so I can get potions.

LeeDark1 votes

Well, I'm not sure the solution is to go back and get potions, but yes, you absolutely should be expecting Shaco to invade and gank you at red. It's a VERY common Shaco tactic to take Blue quickly without Smite, hop over the wall to your red, and get there to kill you and Smite it away if necessary. Either he finds you there if you started Krugs, or you are at your Blue, and he gets to steal your Red and get a three buff start, along with your Red timer to invade again later. If you died because he surprised you, that is your own fault.

Narasimha21 votes

I mean, 3/4 of your top lane choices are beaten by Riven for specific reasons

Vladimir - Is infamous for being very weak early game. He only gets going by level 9, whereas Riven is known for being strong in lane. Plus, Vlad's style of laning involves staying back and being topped off. He absolutely hates any champion that can gapclose and stick to him.

Fizz - Is an assassin. Unless he's going for the kill, his style of fighting is to get in, do his damage, and get out. The problem is, this is what Riven excels at yet. She hates prolonged duels. You're literally fighting her at her best point.

Hecarim - Is just too item reliant. His sustain is handy, but it'll chew through his mana, and he doesn't have the tools to stop Riven from doing her in-and-outs.

Also

If you don't actually have the damage to kill Riven before she kills you, then it doesn't matter how much armor you stack, she will kill you regardless.

This.. applies to EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION. If I can't kill someone before they kill me, I will die. That's... kinda logical.

OJ19112 votes

IDK how you are losing as cho though. Max W. press Q, autoattack her, press R. dead riven. build a rod of ages. She can't do damage if she's cc'd for 3.5 seconds straight into death.

I do agree that tankiness doesn't necessarily counter her though.

YumaS2Astral8 votes

{quoted}

IDK how you are losing as cho though. Max W. press Q, autoattack her, press R. dead riven. build a rod of ages. She can't do damage if she's cc'd for 3.5 seconds.

I don't technically lose, against a common Riven I always win, but against a Riven that actually masters her and is very good with her, it is a skill based matchup, as while I can deny her an engage, Cho can't win direct trades, and he has to freeze the lane because otherwise she can surprise him bursting him down.

Feathermane6 votes

So, no Riven, no matter how good, should ever be able to win a lane against you? That standard sucks.

AFK Push5 votes

No he just said bad rivens.

Orangesilk2 votes

Well, that is the way of the toplane, binary champions for binary matchups.

Darius Wins or loses his lane entirely by matchup, it takes a REALLY, ENORMOUS skill difference between the two players for Darius to lose a favorable matchup.

Hawkefire3 votes

Until you hit a certain skill level that is. Darius wins fairly consistently against lower skilled opponents, and even against quite a few higher skill opponents. But at higher tiered levels of play he starts to fall flat.

in the case of Riven, it starts coming into play at the higher tiers of play rather than the lower tiers (yes Riven is a fairly easy champ to play, but at lower tiers of play most people do not know how to animation cancel or combo correctly and that is simply required for Riven to win lanes unless the other person she is playing against is a complete tool). Once you get into higher tiers of play, it takes significantly more skill on your opponents part to deal with Riven unless you are playing one of her hard counters. This is because Riven outkits most champions in the game with massive amounts of free stats, lots of mobility, 2 forms of mobility, and an execute. Riven is also a very safe champion to play as, because she is nearly impossible to gank unless she has grossly overextended, and even then she can still end up escaping a gank if she has flash up and hasn't burned her cooldowns.

The problem with dealing with Riven is that whether you beat her or not depends on whether or not she screws up pretty significantly. Riven always has the advantage, it is up to her to determine whether or not she keeps it.

Orangesilk2 votes

What higher-skilled players learn about dealing with Darius is how -not- to lose lane, farm under turret and keep the score 0/0 so he can become useless later on. It has less to do with mechanics and more to do with game knowledge (Knowing how to lose a lane without it becoming a terrible weight for the rest of the team is an important skill).

Riven however is entirely dependent on -her- skill. When I play against a Riven it's not about the matchup and more about "Does this player understand ani canceling?" It's less down to my own skill. or the skill difference, but more about whether this player has mastered this particular skill or hasn't, there's no counterplay against an ani-canceling Riven than picking one of her counters.

WutsKraken8 votes

I don't dislike Riven because I can't lane vs her. I dislike her because:

  1. I don't trust anyone else to lane vs her because she's a snowball goddess. Too many games I've seen my teammate feed her
  2. She might not be able to take me 1v1, but if my bot lane isn't fed as fk, she can still assassinate them at the cost of her own life if she knows a thing or 2 about positioning as an assassin and no ADC? Lost teamfight

That being said, I wasn't celebrating her being disabled at all. I actually thought it was quite childish for people to celebrate like that

LICENSED HOOKER3 votes

i Dislike her for 1 reason.

No matter how much i kick her ass in lane. Even if i call MIA. SOMEONE DIES ANYWAY

And this bs meta with riven using summoner 12 is fking stupid.

LeeDark2 votes

It's not Riven's fault that Brutalizer only builds into ONE thing now.

jDVL20eCYs5 votes

Plays heca, vlad, fizz and cho xd xd The most cancerouse top laners xd xd I mean even heca xd xd And you complain about riven xd xd Op stop you make me laugh to death xd xd Can't breath xd xd

Vistha Kai9 votes

You can't bread? Are you allergic to gluten, perhaps? http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/better-wheat-bread-through-chemistry-130111.jpg

I Miss Cannon4 votes

But he is right.

SlytherinUmbreon6 votes

Pantheon the feels

Voba4 votes

Katarina Main here, Riven is never a problem when i have to play against her, learn to play around her kit, Shes not that hard.

Xonra8 votes

{quoted}

Katarina Main here, Riven is never a problem when i have to play against her, learn to play around her kit, Shes not that hard.

I tend to laugh at Katarina when she does her Kat things if I play Riven.

Kat dives in and ults I stun , smack broken wings knock up, or I stun, ult smack, broken wings, ult ranged slash.

A half decent Riven will make Kat look silly jumping on her and doing Kat things. Not to mention she can easily CC her to peel her off of teammates (which is pretty much the Kat counter - CC, which Riven has two good ones,with two gap closers)

Voba3 votes

{quoted}

I tend to laugh at Katarina when she does her Kat things if I play Riven.

Kat dives in and ults I stun , smack broken wings knock up, or I stun, ult smack, broken wings, ult ranged slash.

A half decent Riven will make Kat look silly jumping on her and doing Kat things. Not to mention she can easily CC her to peel her off of teammates (which is pretty much the Kat counter - CC, which Riven has two good ones,with two gap closers)

I feel like you dont understand how a good kat player would take this match up. Max q, Poke you, Inta gib you, Im not going to dive riven unless i can q e w ult insta pop

Xonra7 votes

{quoted}

I feel like you dont understand how a good kat player would take this match up. Max q, Poke you, Inta gib you, Im not going to dive riven unless i can q e w ult insta pop

I feel like you've only played against bad Rivens.

  • If you were just poking me, I would instantly just jump on you pre 6.
  • You wouldn't be getting any CS, because you'd be only poking me and not the minions, so I would take huge advantage of that.
  • There would be no insta gib, because I'd just shield when you ulted, stun you, ult and kill you.
  • You don't have to dive onto Riven, because Riven dives onto you. Again, you must have not played against a good Riven.
Voba1 votes

{quoted}

I feel like you've only played against bad Rivens.

  • If you were just poking me, I would instantly just jump on you pre 6.
  • You wouldn't be getting any CS, because you'd be only poking me and not the minions, so I would take huge advantage of that.
  • There would be no insta gib, because I'd just shield when you ulted, stun you, ult and kill you.
  • You don't have to dive onto Riven, because Riven dives onto you. Again, you must have not played against a good Riven.

Im done with this, You obviously have no real knowledge of this match-up...or you know what kat does at all.

Gorgannan7 votes

I don't think YOU understand. This is like a kid in middle school imagining getting in fights. They think, "I punch them, then predict their punch and dodge, then punch them again."

You're acting like they're bots. They're not bots. Your Q even with Luden's won't go through her dash bubble.

Jofeyy4 votes

Thats funny, i tend to pick Riven mid into Katarina when i get the chance. Riven can counter all Kats spells.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

I play squishies top lane. Oddly, I'm not crying over Riven.

Quinn makes Riven miserable. Lissandra destroys Riven. Caitlyn makes Riven miserable. Azir destroys Riven. Lulu destroys everyone. Sivir makes Riven Miserable.

OperationDEEZ11 votes

Taric Makes Riven feel Outrageous.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

That free armor though. OP. Nerf nao.

~Riven

Beerstein3 votes

According to statistics these champions drop Riven below 50% win rate at Diamond+. To be fair this is a fairly small pool, but some like Mantheon do a heck of a lot more than just drop her below 50% (he drops her to 43% win rate).

http://i.imgur.com/8BVu4Po.png

One Mantheon for each win % he drops riven rounded up... Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon Pantheon

From here on out this shall be known as the mantheon rating system.

terkmc2 votes

Riven rely on early game cheese and snowballing Pantheon IS early game cheese and snowballing personified

zliplus2 votes

I love playing against Riven top, because it lets me take Rammus without feeling like I have to do super well to justify the pick.

Leaf of the lake2 votes

You mean people don't pick cc burst mages into riven and laugh when she tries to dive? I'd rather be a squishy that can 100-0 her back than be a tank that she can 100-0 consistently.

Byakuya Kuchiki1 votes

can you give me a least of all top laners that arent crazy like draven orianna etc. i wanna make a list of who i think she should and shouldnt beat but i dont play top often

junglerboy164 votes

Good top laners would probably include: Chogath Darius DrMundo Ekko Fiora Fizz Galio Gangplank Garen Gnar Hecarim Irelia JarvanIV Jax Kennen Lissandra Lulu Malphite Maokai Mordekaiser Nasus Nautilus Olaf Renekton Riven Rumble Ryze Shen Singed Sion Swain Trundle Tryndamere Urgot Vladimir Volibear MonkeyKing Yasuo Yorick

Ok top laners would probably include: Aatrox Akali Amumu Brand Cassiopeia Diana Gragas Heimerdinger Jayce Kassadin Kayle Nidalee Nocturne Pantheon Quinn Rammus RekSai Rengar Shyvana Skarner TahmKench Taric Udyr Vayne Vi Warwick XinZhao Zac Zed

Of those, my guess for good ones against Riven would probably include Chogath (good damage and sustain, hard to burst) Darius (she can't all in you because you crush everything that gets in melee range) Fiora (I have never seen a Fiora lose this matchup, even if the Fiora sucks) Garen (known counter pick) Gnar (good against all ins, great damage and durability, good poke) Malphite (counters AD really well, good scaling damage even when tank) Olaf (out-bullies everyone else in lane, you can usually kill her if she tries to all in you) Singed (ydgaf if she kills you, you're singed, all you need to do is run away and let her kill herself while you hard push) Trundle (you steal AD, armor, MR, and health, you out-bully and out sustain her, she can't duel you late game) Urgot (counters AD assassin types wonderfully) Yorick (counters life itself. Even if she all-ins you, you can use your ult to almost always get a revenge kill, and you don't need to be 4 and 0 to be relevant late game) Rammus (stack armor for damages, you can run away from her if she chases, taunt under tower, and get so stupid tanky that she'll never kill you) Taric (stack armor, sustain for days, hard CC if she starts an all-in, moderate burst, excellent ways of keeping Riven from killing your team)

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