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Season 10: The Season of Supports playing any lane.

Illabethe··1 votes·2,498 views

I forecast that Supports will be able to play any lane. You want to know why?

The new support items.

  1. They aren't gated by ally proximity.
  2. They give more gold utility than a Cull
  3. After they mature with 1000 gold Quest, they stop generating Support Gold.
  4. The penalty for farming minions isn't that high.

What this essentially does:

-A kill lane bot lane can be supplemented by a Support Mid or top, as long as they can eliminate turret push threats. -Lee Sin is going to be better as a Top, because he can get a ward item with AD/HP/CDR to replace the Sightstone he lost. -Passive lanes like Karma Top/Ornn Top now can take support items again.

Last night, I went Yuumi Top vs Aatrox on PBE. Surprising toxic. I couldn't reliably kill Aatrox. but I COULD just poke him out of lane. If he tried to infernal chain me, I just E'd after it centered me, ran away, and poked some more. Got 500 Gold in 7:50. Got 1000 gold in 11:10

By the time I started riding mid, Aatrox had died 2 times, and I had 298 AP as Yuumi, and just took a Nashors for fun along with Lich bane. Started hard pushing their lane with our mid, and ended game fast, while Aatrox raged about not being able to win lane.

I look forward to playing Nami in any lane >.>

19 Comments

Rax Reformed5 votes

You playing one game on the PBE and not hard-feeding isn't evidence that the support-pocolypse is upon us. I would personally love to lane against a solo Yuumi. Especially as Aatrox. You can't even steer your Q when you're alone.

TheUrbanKitsune2 votes

Dude, exactly, right??? Like a Yuumi solo lane should be so free. She has 480 starting HP and no mobility without a lane partner, lmao.

Illabethe1 votes

That's kind of the point. I started solo lane alone, had 300 AP by ~ 14 minutes, deserted lane and began riding mid. Game was over by 19 minutes with a raging aatrox.

It's also kind of dumb to imply I'm using one game as an example. And it's not an "apocalypse" as he called it. It's legit accommodating strategy that Riot has attempt for 3 straight years NOT to allow. Top with a Gold income item was supposed to be taboo and hotfixed out. Mid with a support item snowballed too fast.

And now here they are..... allowing it again.

And yes. a Support can start another lane, be 2-3 levels higher than an actual support, and then join the team and be better off than actually playing support.

Malphite top with Spellthief. 450g for 1600 gold worth of econ, and 35 AP, some HP, and 4 perma refresh wards. I know enchanters aren't the norm for these experiments. Morgana on the other hand is a Mid-originator. Orianna. Syndra. Veigar.... all can use this. Xerath.

TheUrbanKitsune3 votes

That's the thing though-- Malphite, Morgana, Orianna, Syndra, Veigar, and Xerath can all solo lane right now. In fact of that list the only champion that is REGULARLY played as a support is Morgana. I've seen Veigar and Xerath support but they're much more commonly picked as mid laners.

You weren't suggesting mid laners use the new support items for gold income. You were saying 'hey guys Yuumi and Nami can solo lane now' Do you see how that's a tiny bit of a stretch?

Illabethe1 votes

No. I was saying they can SUSTAIN a lane until they can join a team. They won't CS like a normal laner; maybe half rate. But they can hold it, and give a team TWO supports; A kill bot lane support (Senna) and an alt lane Support somewhere else who has a higher gold/level/item lead than the actual support.

Nami's kit is wonkey for dueling in other lanes. It's fine for sustaining the lane, and later joining a team fight.

Keep in mind; The new items require post Quest supports to FARM ANYWAYS. After tier 3, these items no longer give 15G on proc. So the item is basically a stat boosted sightstone after that. So post 1000G quest, a Nami already will have to learn to farm, even as support.

Rax Reformed2 votes

You do realize that having an actual top laner on your team is a lot better than having a support with an extra 1k gold and 2 levels, right? In no situation is it going to benefit a team to have a support sitting in a solo lane, throwing away half the creeps and hugging tower, just because support items give gold.

If the Support items are good, people will run them on actual champions that play in solo lanes, not Nami and Yuumi. If they're not good, then people will just buy a Doran's and go to lane like normal.

Illabethe1 votes

Maybe you have a very different picture how this game goes:

  1. I do farm.
  2. Whatever farm I don't get, the item supplements.
  3. I certainly don't hug the turret. I spend entire lane poking the opposing champion, so they feel uncomfortable farming. 40-60 damage hit after hit makes even a Garen miss CS. It IS a ranged auto attacker lane.... and she DOES gain a barrier for auto attacking.

4) You do realize that bot lane isn't just enchanters and adcs? Bot lane is often a Swain/ADC or Swain/Mage. In other words, a support-less team. Playing support somewhere else patches that weakness. A lot of "lane" champs have better synergies with adcs than supports do.

  1. You really don't play support if you think Top champs (most of them) are more impactful to a game than a high level support elsewhere. Only about 3 tops have more impact than a Support: Garen, Tryndamere, and Nasus. Anyone else, generally has shutdown capability, doesn't take enough team focus, and doesn't really have much impact on overall team performance. Ornn CAN, but his play rate is so low, and it requires a strong pre 12 performance.
Rax Reformed2 votes

Your example in point #4 is not a "support-less team". They have Swain support. Supports have 2 main roles in a game. Peel for the ADC, and help control vision. That's it. You don't need a Nami/Morgana/Yuumi to have a functional team comp. Not having a champ designed specifically for the support role is not a "weakness" that needs to be "patched" by having an enchanter support go to a solo lane.

I assure you. I'd prefer a fed Jax coming down from Top after laning phase, over a fed Nami any day. As would anyone with any sense. I'm not saying support champs suck outside of their role, I'm just saying that champs designed for solo lanes fill that role much more effectively. If you have a support Swain, you have a support Swain. That's not a gap in your team comp that needs to be filled by a solo laner.

I feel like this kind of devolved into you defending your personal playstyle to me, while I'm just explaining why it'll never actually become meta. I'm not judging you for playing Morgana jungle or Yuumi top, that's up to your teammates. I'm only telling you, that the support items are not going to make support champions solo-lane viable. If the support items are good, solo-lane champions will buy them.

Illabethe1 votes

Swain support is a greater carry than the adc is. You're joshing when you try to downplay that as a 'support.'

Swain also doesn't provide team heals or shields, mobility, etc.

Jax has a 50/50 chance to feed. Nami has about a 20% chance to feed.

And no. This is objective. This isn't about personal play style. It's about people who are stubborn thinking that somehow certain champs are balanced for certain gold incomes, yet won't become imbalanced when they have greater incomes, levels, and items.

This is precisely why I hard carry as Zyra jungle, when as support she's a 50/50 champion. Less income. Usually doesn't build a luden's. Less mobility. Lower average levels at any point of the game. Boost her overall potency by 15-20%, she becomes a monster in other roles. She's also a competent top laner.

Literally the only champion who has been balanced not to play a lane is Pyke. That's IT. Everyone else scales. Even he still can scale, but suffers for farming. What keeps them in lanes is the fear of unpredictability, and the fact Riot took away Support item use in their lanes, and the fact that people generally perceive that they have to win a lane to win a game, even though multitudes of high elo players don't even aim for kills in farming phase; They generally farm and poke. They wait for assistance. They offer assistance.

In other words, in high elo, most players ARE supports. You literally just called Swain a support lol.

TheUrbanKitsune2 votes

Sure, supports can effectively poke out a lane opponent-- sometimes. That's like the entire point of mage and some enchanter supports. You're not considering some really important things though. You're forgetting that most supports don't really scale well damage wise. Their damage is pretty much all in their early poke so they can be relevant in lane phase. Supports are also typically pretty immobile. They also for the most part lack the damage on their basic attacks to be able to reliably farm waves (of course a few supports like Thresh and Pyke don't adhere to this, but both have already seen play in solo lanes, though Thresh is still a bit more of a meme).

I'm not saying you can't win games with it, but I certainly do not think supports in solo lanes will be meta, outside of some sort of funneling strat if that ever comes back. Think about it for a good hard second, it's just not XP or gold efficient-- at all. Supports pretty much need the least amount of gold in the game to be relevant. Same with levels. Besides some of the obvious ones like hitting levels 2 or 6, supports don't need to really stress on XP as long as they're not like 4 levels behind their lane opponents. Have you ever noticed supports tend to end up a lower level than the rest of the team, even in pro play? Support items are cheap, and usually not as crucial as other champion's powerspike items. Like SURE you can get that extra 1k from the support item or whatever, but what are you gonna do with it?

When you play a support in a solo lane you basically choose one of two routes: -You build damage and stomp early but become useless after 10-15 minutes. -You build support items and are relevant, but it's a huge waste where you could've just had another carry absorbing that XP and gold. (cough funneling cough)

If anything I think the support item change will end up more like what you said, with champions who already solo lane picking it up as a 'better cull' type option.

Illabethe1 votes
  1. You don't need to scale damage wise to be a lane support. You just have to be able to exist. I cited Yuumi. Single target.
  2. The point is you can finish the Quest ANYWHERE.
  3. Most supports are some of the lowest death ratio champions in the game. In other words, when played correctly, they don't actually give up kills, even if immobile.
  4. Most supports have mage functionality.... I can outfarm most mid laners with a Nami or Soraka.
  5. Again.... it's about the fact you can finish the quest elsewhere, get more XP, and then ajoin your team. It's not about winning the lane; It's about STALLING it. If you are hard countered as support, you can instead Top lane while Top goes down and supports (even buy another support item for more wards)
TheUrbanKitsune2 votes

  1. "I cited Yuumi" is anecdotal evidence as best. When the next ranked season rolls around show me multiple players at Platinum+ in ranked CONSISTENTLY winning with Yuumi top and I'll believe you. Until then, personally, it seems like you were playing on PBE against a shitty Aatrox and a jungler who didn't realize how abusable you are.

  2. What does this have to do with literally anything? You want lane swaps? What top or mid players in their right mind would agree to swap lanes with the support?

  3. If you want to cite support statistics, you have to look at it in context. MOST supports play from the support role in bot lane. It's pretty easy to not die bot lane as a support. When you take away the extra player and put yourself in a solo lane that is easier to gank, things change.

  4. Yes, if you build damage. I've played Nami mid, too. I already pointed out why building damage on these champions is garbage.

  5. This 'point' of yours just tells me you either didn't read or understand the part about supports not needing extra XP and gold. Who cares if you're 'stalling' the game for your top laner if they're down bot lane losing XP and gold they could've been getting top, while probably also getting poked to hell since most top laners are melee champions.

Like this might fly at lower elo, but no way is this EVER going to be meta. There's just no good reason to do it.

Illabethe1 votes

You're insane if you think building damage on Nami is bad, even as a bot lane support. Yuumi and Sona by default build damage.

  1. The point is; some supports get countered and they no longer have a Nomad's to rely on. Some Tops/mids get countered. If you swap lanes sometimes you can mitigate those counters, and they can all get ward items now, increasing visibility drastically. Do you like your top Darius getting hard countered in a ranged matchup? Switch him to support and let a ranged support stall out the ranged top. This will be a real thing in high elo play, as high elo is ALWAYS looking for ways to counter countering.

  2. Bot is not easy not to die lol. Try playing Morgana support versus Zyra/Jhin. Yuumi into Draven + Leona. A lot of combos are toxic if you do not have a Nomad's option.

TheUrbanKitsune5 votes

I climbed to Diamond playing primarily Nami support. Athene's and Ardent are the closest things to damage I've ever built on her. Straight damage is bad. Yuumi is a late game champion who deviates from a lot of other enchanters, exceptions happen. Last time I saw Sona get play was in a niche carry bot lane role rather than support, and that strat has pretty much died out as well.

Illabethe1 votes

item 3098 item 3003 item 3504 item 3174 Nami. That's 404 + AP on the right runes.

item 3027 also sees play, as does item 3065 item 3110 item 3905 item 2065 .

Finishing a Archangel snowballs Nami faster than any other item starts, including Athene's or Ardent. They are #2 items.

Sona carry with Taric has been played all this season by Cloud 9

TheUrbanKitsune4 votes

Finishing a Archangel snowballs Nami faster than any other item starts, including Athene's or Ardent. They are #2 items.

I'm sorry but I don't think you know what you're talking about. I've literally never seen any Nami build Archangel's or RoA. If I saw that in game I'd assume the player is either trolling or silver.

Athene's and Ardent are pretty standard. Twin Shadows and Shurelya's are situational AT BEST, I usually opt towards things with more teamfight impact like Redemption or Locket, unless the team really needs help with picks for some reason, or the team is so stupidly ahead that i can yolo build whatever I want. Spirit Visage and Frozen Heart are also highly situational items and I'm not sure why you're including them as they don't give AP?

Various higher elo Nami players also build the way I am suggesting (as it's the best way to build Nami):

Koiyaki, Diamond 2 NA JMilkman, Diamond 2 NA SemiFamous, Diamond 1 NA Empress Bee, Diamond 1 NA 와타시숙자씨, Diamond 2 KR Slow Motions, Masters KR 봄 꽃, Diamond 2 KR

The builds across all of their games are pretty consistent. Athene's and Ardent almost every game, and Redemption being a close runner-up. Then Locket and Mikael's being built situationally as needed. I don't see a single game where any of them have purchased Archangel's, RoA, Twin Shadows, or Shurelya's.

Also,

Sona carry with Taric has been played all this season by Cloud 9

No, they haven't. It was situational and nowhere near all season. That strategy was being played around the time when Hecarim was still busted. It was developed as a strategy to use in certain team comps. It hasn't been played much since it was nerfed.

Illabethe1 votes
  1. I AM a high elo Nami in Diamond II
  2. Meta is not always right. For example, even though Archangel used to be MUCH stronger, Ezreal never built it until Season 8 when it got NERFED HARD. it used to have 60 more AP, and had similar charge scaling, and was 300G CHEAPER. Yet it wasn't built. "Too long to charge."
  3. Most "Meta" supports are still building from the days that gold was hard to come by. Gold IS harder to come by in high elo; but it's not impossible, and a good player still gets plenty.
  4. Not all adcs scale to Ardent.
  5. Not all junglers/mids allow straight Ardent/Athene play (Malphite, Kayn)
TheUrbanKitsune3 votes

I like to try to see people's sides of things and I usually give people the benefit of the doubt on things like this if I'm not sure, but building Archangel's and RoA is hella troll-- and I'd go as far to say that the majority of Nami players would probably agree with me. No amount of statistics are gonna convince you otherwise, though, eh? This back and forth is getting a bit tiresome either way. Don't take things too personally, I meant no ill will by any of it, I just don't agree with your opinion. Have a nice day and good luck on the rift, dude.

Illabethe1 votes

Because actually being able to use her passive continually, without risking mana mismanagement, and chunking 20-25% of an opponent's HP while healing 400+ is "So Troll."

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