Rant/ @Riot: the attempt to categorize different types of 'stealth' obfuscates the issue

DrugsForRobots··5 votes·786 views

Trying to categorize 'stealth' into invisibility and 'camouflage' just obfuscates the problems posed by League's vision system. It's still a vision system where the 'counterplay' is based on the purchase of items to hard-counter other items, not the organic interaction between the player characters and the wards themselves.

Teemo or Shaco's traps still lack innate counterplay. They're still hard countered by a free item and a 50g item (that's instant speed to drop down.)

Evelynn and Twitch still do not have audio cues or SFX tell-tale signs accompanying their presence, so they can still run up and insta-gib you.

The majority of 'stealth' wards still only come in one flavor - the circular AoE of Sight with no innate counterplay beyond the brief half-second they're revealed before they go invis.

Stealth is a mindset and a playstyle, Riot. Stealth is not invisibility, though invisibility is a prerequisite for stealth. Invisibility is the mechanic. Stealth is covert movement and cautious action. What you're calling 'camouflage' is just invisibility based on proximity. You also have instances of invisibility based on AoE (Akali's Shroud and brush), duration (Shaco's invis, among others), LoS (offered by terrain and brush and each champ's limited sight radius), soon damage(?), but still no unit collision, still very few tell-tale signs and audio/visual cues.

Trying to categorize stealth in this manner indicates to me that Riot doesn't really understand what stealth is (yes, I'm going there), since they've continuously confused stealth with invisibility.

Stealth: (stĕlth) n. cautious and surreptitious action or movement; the quality or characteristic of being furtive or covert.

Invisibility: (ĭn-vĭzˈə-bəl) n. not visible; out of sight; unseen; impossible to view.

News Flash:

Every champion in the game has access to invisibility from level 1 onwards. Brush grants a player invisibility - permanent invisibility if the opponents cannot enter or acquire vision of that brush for whatever reason. Fog of War grants the player invisibility. Terrain blocks LoS, enabling the FoW, thus granting invisibility.

You guys might notice that in everyday talk about League the word 'stealthed' comes up. 'Stealthed' isn't a real word. You can be stealthy, behave stealthily, use stealth, but there is no such thing as 'stealthed' except in League as slang for invisibility.

Sorry if this sounds condescending or pretentious but I'm ill and the preseason has left me disappointed (the changes to Shaco even moreso.) I really do care though. It pains me to watch the professionals at Riot floundering around with the concept of stealth.

But then I realized that making the game more hospitable to stealth gameplay is probably the opposite of flashy LCS teamfights (though not mutually exclusive...)

IDK, let the downvotes commence.

Shaco

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lvv1fi36Zg1r1ltxt.gif&f=1

7 Comments

TehNACHO2 votes

Someone's working for that English major.

Jokes aside, I'm not sure what the conclusion of this post is? You have some good points here and there, especially towards Teemo's shrooms and Shaco's traps, but I really did not get a unifying message from your essay other than somewhat arbitrary terminology and jargon beating.

Okay I'm sorry, now I'm done with jokes. I'll respond seriously if you make your main point more clear :x

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I won't be able to respond in depth until later tonight, but I'll be thinking about it.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

My point is that Riot could emphasize that stealth is a mindset and playstyle but they have to first recognize what stealth is: cautious and surreptitious action or movement; the quality or characteristic of being furtive or covert.

Every time you wait in a bush as your prey approaches (completely oblivious to your presence) you're using stealth. What about this: have you ever hidden around the corner of a terrain waiting for that approaching enemy to get just close enough? Have you ever seen the pros ping out a ward and then estimate and skirt around it's vision range entirely? They're very conscience of giving away information - they use stealth all the time, despite never playing champions with invisibility.

The problem with stealth is that Riot isn't really supporting it as a form of gameplay.

Take 'stealth wards' for example. Once placed they're invisible and you have no way (or very few ways) of knowing when your position has been compromised. Behaving stealthily is awkward when you're unsure if you're being seen at any given moment! This is why all good stealth games give us tools for getting information, scouting, checking the surroundings, gauging the enemies awareness, etc.

Likewise, most instances of invisibility in the game don't really support the stealth mindset or playstyle either. We can see this with Wukong, Akali, Talon, and Shaco. There are so few ways of detecting an invisible champion that there is very little need for that champion to use stealth. As a Shaco main, I don't really have to be stealthy because there is virtually no way for you to 'sense' that I am near innate to my invisibility. There is nothing I, as the Shaco, have to play around or be wary of because it could give my position away. (Actually, Shaco has a puff of smoke and an evil laugh upon disappearing, but the puff of smoke is very difficult to see since it isn't large or vibrant, and the evil laugh is inaudible to enemies unless you're right on top of them and nothing else is making a sound.)

Conversely, in some miraculous stroke of genius, Riot gave Eveynn her detection radius but also the eye icon which alerts her to whether or not she's seen. Her invisibility actively encourages and supports stealth gameplay. The best example of all is probably post-Assassin Update Rengar. The longer invis combined with his extended 'predator vision' supports stealth gameplay. He is actively working to avoid being discovered, while having the tools that enable him to do so. At the same time, he has to put in more effort, as he has a unique audio FX that alerts nearby enemies to his presence. Unfortunately, Riot has not given Eve or Twitch such an audio cue, so they can afford to be less stealthy in their approach.

I can say more about stealth and vision in League, but I'm not sure what my point is other than the vision system needs a ton of work.

Also, for your consideration:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/1b/LivesByProxy_VisionInterplayLoop.png/revision/latest?cb=20160709033250

These are the axes or pillars of the vision game. However, both detection and denial (and even True Sight) are very underdeveloped compared to invis and sight.

Teridax682 votes

I feel you could have gotten to the point a lot more directly, but I agree, for all the sweeping changes to stealth, it feels like a lot more could be done to improve it. Control wards still mostly work as a hard counter to objects, Shaco and Teemo traps still don't have real counterplay, as you mentioned, and wards themselves haven't benefited at all from the new stealth model. A lot of the preseason changes will make countering invisibility a bit more dependent on general soft-counters, but a small island of itemization is still too wrapped up in its own game of counters and counter-counters to make stealth mechanics entirely organic.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

TehNACHO is right, I didn't really make a point. It was more like a few observations.

You describe the problem perfectly though: "a small island of itemization is still too wrapped up in its own game of counters and counter-counters to make stealth mechanics entirely organic."

I remember you brought it to my attention in the first place. The way this entire aspect / core / essential part of their game (the vision game, which could be more accurately called the information game) is being neglected from their very own design principles! The philosophy that clarity is a priority, telegraphing is key, counterplay is good doesn't seem to have been applied to the info game, except in the rare instances of champion abilities that grant vision. Or rather, they've yet to go back at apply this philosophy to those older champions... (It's only taken them.. 8+ years and counting...)


I was thinking about stealth games and trying to see what others had said about them and I found this little talk from one of the guys who worked on Thief 1, 2, and 3. In it he said that all stealth levels have an aesthetic (a fantasy) they want to provide. He gives the example ("the lowest common denominator"):

"Create the illusion of a securely guarded area that the player can sneak through by virtue of leveraging their unique abilities and tools to create and exploit security flaws."

That reminds me of Wards, or at least, what they should do and be. Reliable enough to demand that the opponent play smart and use stealth.

Calabok1 votes

so uhh, you're whining about how they are doing the stealth naming wrong?

DrugsForRobots2 votes

No, I'm whining about how they've used the 'categorization' of 'stealth' as a smoke screen instead of actually addressing the issues that still plague the champions with invis (low counterplay, low telegraphing, low clarity, and a failure to encourage the stealth mindset / playstyle), and the stale, boring wards that have low counterplay, low telegraphing, low clarity, and fail to encourage the stealth mindset / playstyle.

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