Can we just try to balance everybody one season instead of cycling metas?

PapaGreg21·Aug 31, 2017·51 votes·1,613 views

Or can we at least get some sort of explanation as to why this is better for players to have a cycled change or strong and weak champs? I have been playing for years and I don't understand why champs like Graves in the jungle were allowed to stomp people for 9 months this season while other champs like Shyvana were put in the dirt for a while because she performed too well with Devourer. Can't there just be consistent balance throughout the year?

36 Comments

OleandervineAug 31, 201720 votes

Balancing actually causes meta shifts because sometimes the balances aren't perfect and someone dips and someone goes up. It would take someone who isn't human to be able to perfectly balance the game without unforseen consequences.

x Royal Solo xAug 31, 20177 votes

That's probably the same excuse Rito makes for making such an unbalanced game.

Fact of the matter is Balance comes from mathematics and experience. The more I think about it Riot should just let Champion mains determine their balance levels, since they know the champion better then a developer that who isn't putting in the same time playing the champ.

Before you say players will abuse their power, there are easy ways to avoid that like a rational debate.

Final thought, we should make a congress for player changes. Each champ will hold their own balance forums and polls. Then once every patch all elected champion main representatives will debate the changes, until an agreement is found. :D

OleandervineAug 31, 201713 votes

That's well and good, but it isn't solely based on mathematics. There is play ability and the capability of players to make choices and reason, which can't be factored for at all. There is no way to perfectly balance a game with one of the main determining factors is human capability and decision-making.

And having players determine balance is absurd. They focus on a few things, and don't see the big picture. The game has a ton of moving parts and numbers to take into account, and I can guarantee you that one trick mains aren't factoring in every mathematical possibility or item or environmental interaction with their main. Something will be missed or glossed over, because again, humans are not perfect.

FirethornAug 31, 20172 votes

That sounds absolutely terrifying

Mindworm JimSep 1, 20173 votes

Actually I am reminded of a quote I heard once. I think it involved DnD or Pathfinder forums. But one of the designers said something along the lines of "Players are very good at spotting problems and very bad at providing solutions."

Wise words I think.

Skins ProjectSep 1, 20171 votes

Alright, balance the game. Right now.

If your a genius, balance it.

Buff a weak champion? Another champion that they counter is now weaker.

Even balanced a scale?

Now imagine the scale had hundreds of arms, and touching one would effect every other one by a small or major amount.

Put 1 rock in Annie, 3 will go down 1 rock, 6 will go down 2, 12 will go up and so on.

x Royal Solo xSep 5, 20171 votes

Not really a point in responding to an old post, but I thought I should mention the reason you will never be able to balance the game is your perspective of it.

It's not as hard as you'd like it to be. There is no mystery, everything can be solved.

give me an exact champion you want balanced and I give it to you. "Annie"

I'm not a annie main so my opinion would not be valid. :)

2.Warwick who i do main. to balance him, reduce his healing from dps to champions. Reduce his fear time. reduce his movement speed with blood scent. Make his ultimate a Q but reduced it in every way. Make his W his ultimate but make it target all champions and its activate gives him increased movement speed attack speed on those targets. His new W would be his bite.

Now since every great idea can become greater through debate, I would ask you who your main is and how these changes would effect your gameplay. :)

Skins ProjectSep 6, 20171 votes

It is hard.

Ok, as a WW main you know his counters and the champions he counters right? Ok, say WW gets nerfed, how would this effect someone he counters? They go UP, how would it effect someone counters him? It goes up, when you nerf a champion you artificially bolster the winrates of champions whom beat/get beaten by them.

sobi999Aug 31, 20175 votes

Lots of other moba's are infact much more balanced than league. Many experienced league players have confirmed it on these forums countless times. The fact of the matter is that riot doesn't want a balanced game not because they are lazy but because for many other reasons which i don't think i should say considering its an free to play game.

Spicy RiceAug 31, 20175 votes

Those are also...

Different fucking games

LeetriAug 31, 20174 votes

Like Dota 2 that's entirely balanced around pro-play? That's gonna fly well with this forum, where people lose their collective mind when Riot balances for LCS for a patch.

ForeverLaxxSep 1, 20172 votes

It's not a case of "balacing for LCS" but rather a case of "nerfed to kick them out of LCS" or "buffed to force them into LCS."

HaIlMonitorSep 1, 20171 votes

I dont think people would care if every champion was balanced for either pro or soloque. But the problem is they have "pub stompers" MasterYi Garen Graves , and "high elo champs" Elise Rengar Azir but dont fix the overall kit so the champions can be played everywhere with out being busted in one but not the others.

Also I think the sheer amount of new champions that they release in league (most new champs affect the meta) and also how "anyone can build anything" as far as items are a big portion on the problem compared to some of the other games.

Pumping IronSep 1, 20171 votes

Riot just lets a champion few patches to be god tier/s+ tier then nerf it hard (fiora, caitlyn etc) and make it shit for few patches then give them small buffs and become mid tier(c,b). Thats how i see "balance system".

ErockandrollAug 31, 20176 votes

While that would be ideal, it may be Logistically impossible.

Partially because several champions have distinct power levels attributed to skill. Making their win rates fluctuate across MMRs.

Another problem is synergy between champs. Even if champions in themselves are balanced, certain combinations of champions may prove to be far more OP than the sum of their parts. And in the grand scheme of things, a meta will form even if the champions were balanced.

ForFoxSakesAug 31, 20175 votes

Their attempt to balance by changing things up is the cause for the meta shifts. A small tweak here or there will cause something else to be the strongest which people will gravitate to

Something will always have to be the strongest and that's what the meta goes to

PhearBunnyAug 31, 20172 votes

Trump for LoL balance team 2018

Fargo79Sep 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Trump for LoL balance team 2018

I heard Trump is buffing Anivia's wall to keep out the stinky yordles..

sobi999Aug 31, 20172 votes

Pro Sports says NO!

ZT XperimentorAug 31, 20172 votes

They used to, before they became obsessed with trying to be an esport.

KloqdqAug 31, 20172 votes

It all comes down to what some have said prior. Whenever we change one thing to not be op something else will step in it's place. Then another and another. Riot already does this and it's pretty damn clear if you've paid attention over the years. One thing gets strong, creates a meta, then when Riot changes that thing or changes something else to impact it we get a meta shift. The cycle then repeats and we are back to square one with a brand new OP. This is how this and many other games will always work.

The only time something is "balanced' is in a single player experience and even then there is going to be OP classes, characters, etc that pop up. That is just the nature of game design.

AirKingNeoAug 31, 20171 votes

I'm fine with meta cycling, but meta right now are too centralizing.

PiVoRxSep 1, 20171 votes

Meta cycle? If there was actually a "cycle" you would see some diversity in Competitive games, instead they play same shit over and over since 3 years straight. Tell me when was the meta for MasterYi XinZhao Udyr Aatrox Kayle Volibear Diana ?

The0nlyLordREMSep 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Meta cycle? If there was actually a "cycle" you would see some diversity in Competitive games, instead they play same shit over and over since 3 years straight. Tell me when was the meta for ?

Kayle? What are you smoking almost every meta is a Kayle meta. She had 56% winrate half this season and never dropping below 50%.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 1, 20171 votes

L2read maybe when you quote him: COMPETITIVE. Haven't seen a kayle in competitive for ages. Last time was caps once this season.

Whiteeye AvelynSep 1, 20171 votes

Season 4 to 6 when a magical item called devourer existed and made everyone want to kill themselves.

PiVoRxSep 3, 20171 votes

Still not enough to dive out from dumpster and have single apperance in competitive, yet, nerfed to hell so they wont see a sun ever again and left forgotten.

IPERFECTOSep 1, 20171 votes

You can't perfectly balance such game as LoL, and neither can satisfy all players, someone will be frustrated~~.salty~~,sad,tired,etc,everyone has different tastes).There is no possible way to perfectly balance all 140 champs without any advantages to anyone.I mean really, how do you even imagining that? Nerf one-other becomes stronger.Cycle will never end because it's just can't be ended,the best thing they can do is simply refresh their game and adding something new(which they always do) and try to not lost balance completely out of hand

The0nlyLordREMSep 1, 20171 votes

They NEED constant change to generate sales. People need to have to buy new champs / skins / runes for them to make the most money. Thats why they break the game every season - pointless changes to runes/jungle/dragons/add new dumb items (ardent) and so on. The game would be balanced ages ago even if Riot were 30IQ 12 year old kids - the reason its so bad is because they think its better to have "change and unpredictability".

Chaos Milk TeaSep 1, 20171 votes

Because if you balance the ENTIRE game you would have to stop making content. Every new element unbalances the game, forcing you to go back and start re balancing everything.

League will never have every champion being equally useful. Some champs stomp low elo, some champs become gods with skill, some champs shred solo q, and others shine in organized play. Certain champions are silver bullets that do their best while countering certain other types of champions, and others are generalists that fit onto many types of teams.

King of TroIIsSep 1, 20171 votes

The only way to balance the game consistently is:

Balance champions vs the entire champion pool (not just who they typically lane against).
Items Items Items!!! Class specific ones, say 4 class specific item that are niche for different scenarios + a common pool of items. The reason being is that you cannot and will never get a balanced game when a Ranged champion can use the same items as a melee one. are 3 of the most balanced items in the game. Learn from this.

Until these things happen, Riot will nerf/buff champions into and out of oblivion to enforce their own META and gameplay and you'll NEVER see diversity in picks and it will always be Support/Tank as Support, Marksman and odd mage as Bottom, Assassin/Mage/Marksman mid etc etc.

JaghataiSep 1, 20171 votes

Have a watch:

https://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w

PoskeSep 1, 20171 votes

She didnt even perform that well with devourer she was just actually doing something..

MiraweaveSep 3, 20171 votes

"Balance everything" turns out to not be a reasonable task, unfortunately.

NiyumiSep 6, 20171 votes

Balance is boring, and doesn't make much money.

However, when certain champs are broken, Riot can easily drum up hype for skins and get all the FOTM kiddies to go throw money at things.

Money is the only driving factor in anything Riot does, you know.

LadyRenlySep 6, 20171 votes

new masteries and keystones broke the game for a long time, new runes will do it again. adding new items shakes the balance too. nerfing tank items and adding stoneplate has helped push a support-tank playstyle with new locket.

i think we can only really have balance if we stop adding new items and messing with masteries, but thats not very likely.