Honest Question, no salt:

Horse Grenades··30 votes·2,672 views

Is Kayle Kayle busted?

113 Comments

Troll for Trump40 votes

Ezreal is to Sheen items as Kayle is to on-hit items.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Its not broken, it works, its strong, but not broken.

EDIT: If there's supposed to be something wrong with Kayle building onhit then there would be something wrong with ADCs building Crit.

Adriqnohee1 votes

There is something wrong with ADCs building crit tough.

AirKingNeo3 votes

But ADCs are supposed to build crit. Therefore it isn't abuse.

Kayle is supposed to build onhit.

Wheatloaf2 votes

Just means if on hit is busted, Kayle is automatically god-tier.

Tribbles Foxfolk13 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fik28Ytz,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-30T17:08:57.027+0000)

Is Kayle Kayle busted?

I don't she's busted, per say, as her design is inherently flawed. She's a hard-scaling carry with a heal, slow, defense shred passive, AND an invulnerability ult. She either loses horrifically early and stomps late or bends you over.

It Hertz When IP9 votes

I love Kayle thematically, and I would like to see some of her kit aspects removed. Right now going any build other than AS On-Hit is gimping yourself, which is annoying because that's not what I think an angel should be doing. Kayle should be a diver/initiator. She should be leaping to the forefront, not standing at the back line flailing her sword around while invisible fire hits people.

Adriqnohee1 votes

Well they are planning on reworking her, but since they also want to rework Morgana at the same time, since they are sisters and all, so it will take some time before it happens.

YumScrumptious963 votes

A Morgana rework would honestly be sad, she's been around since the very beginning and isn't a problem, clear strengths and weaknesses. There's no real reason to rework her currently.

Arakadia4 votes

Her VO and model are outdated as hell. She literally looks like she's half women half tent.

Gameplay wise, her Q is over punishing for both sides. If she hits it, she gets to chunk you and if she has allies your dead. If she misses, she loses a massive chunk of her power. Her W at times makes her a waveclear bot and her E makes ganking incredibly difficult. Additionally, she has abysmal mana costs so her passive doesn't become extremely over powered. Overall, she's not thematic either. Literally none of her abilities make sense with her theme except the fact that she is a sorceress. You could place her kit on so many other champions and it would still make sense.

YumScrumptious961 votes

I disagree on the model, looks fine and good compared to most of the champs around since S1, and even keeps up with some of the later models pre S5. I've never seen someone genuinely complain about Morgana being too weak or too strong, she's pretty balanced. Excels in peel and CC but lacks consistent damage and isn't all took tanky (unless she E's herself, meaning her teammates now are vulnerable). She's more balanced than Caitlyn is currently, by a longshot. There are plenty of mages who would need a rework before Morgana, to name one: Lux. I guess she doesn't fit her theme but she isn't all too fleshed out right now.

Arakadia2 votes

Her model is garbage. Its good compared to S1 but it really needs work.

Morg's Q is toxic in general. Miss it and you lose ALOT of your power. Hit it and you are ridiculously rewarded, especially late game where Q picks end with kills most of the time.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Garbage? You have an odd definition of that.

Arakadia1 votes

I'd define garbage (not literal trash but the way the internet uses it as an adjective) as something that is far from the standards of the usual and functions much worse so.

And Morgana's model is garbage.

YumScrumptious961 votes

I don't think you've actually seen it. Maybe turn your graphic settings up. http://news.cdn.leagueoflegends.com/public/images/articles/2015/march_2015/MUP/Morg-Comic.png

Arakadia1 votes

Arakadia (NA) - about 2 hours ago I'd define garbage (not literal trash but the way the internet uses it as an adjective) as something that is far from the standards of the usual and functions much worse so.

And Morgana's model is garbage.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Good to know you have no reasoning why its garbage besides that you think it is.

Arakadia2 votes

I have alot of reasoning. But you've constantly been ignoring it with just "Your wrong" statements.

Her wings look like stiff cardboard, her dress looks like she just cut a whole in the top of a tent, and her E looks more like high tech than magic. Finally, she isn't very detailed or realistic in her movements. If you look at Kled, he feels living and whole. If you look at Vi she feels upbeat and ready to pound someone inwards. If you look at Morgana she looks tired and bored.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Morgs model is awful. It's as bad as Ahri's.

YumScrumptious961 votes

You should not be a graphics designer then.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

She's a walking jellyfish with her dress. It's like how Ahri has her tails coming out of everywhere on her ass and even upper thighs.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Yea, her spells got freshened up and she got a new texture on her model. Doesn't change how she's a walking jellyfish.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Apart from the dress being wide and circular at the bottom, she's not much like a jellyfish.

Cowseed10 votes

If Kayle is busted then Urgot is also busted. Her play rate is small so the people who actually spend time to get good at a champion get rewarded. But.... I do detect some salt here.

YoungFarmer8 votes

{quoted}

If Kayle is busted then Urgot is also busted. Her play rate is small so the people who actually spend time to get good at a champion get rewarded. But.... I do detect some salt here.

I mean like with 1-5 games on her you still have a 52% winrate, so she is obviously a little strong.

Cowseed2 votes

By that logic you could say that Urgot is strong because not too long ago I had a positive winrate with him. In ranked mind you.

Papa Andrei4 votes

Because Kayle is a very very low skillfloor champion. She is the on hit ap begginer champ

TotalJerk4 votes

Everyone in high elo I've seen discuss her thinks she has been sleeper OP for almost an entire season.

KoKoboto9 votes

item 3115 item 3124 and you've just become the strongest mid-game champion

Tyrone Lannister8 votes

I would say no. Though she is a major cock block to certain champs

Horse Grenades6 votes

Seems like she synergizes too well with too many items

Marshbouy5 votes

I personally hate kayle. She treads this fine line of being incredibly busted yet incredibly useless. If you farm up a lot of gold and get good items, she can and will solocarry a game. The combination of attack steroids, invulnerability, slows, heals, and armor shred is pretty insane. The only issues is that if you get far behind then you can almost never recover. She is squishy as hell and will pop like a balloon in a Californian forest fire, if attacked 1v1 by anyone with burst. (if her shield is down ofc).

AirKingNeo1 votes

Isn't that every AD carry though? Especially in a solo lane?

Marshbouy2 votes

most ADCs can't abuse item 3116 , don't have AOE auto attacks, and don't have an invulnerability. thats really the only difference though.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Rylai's falls off hard late game since you lost so many stats on it.

Oh no she has an AoE on her ranged attacks, at the cost of her ranged being on a cooldown and costing mana. Also Ashe has slowing autos, Jhin has burst autos, nothing wrong with another ranged carry having different autos.

She has invulnerability and? Jhin has high burst, Ashe has a global stun, Sivir has a speed up, Trist has a giant super knockback, Azir has a giant wall, Kalista makes her support Malphite ult, ect. There's nothing wrong if a champion is different from others.

Marshbouy3 votes

lmao found the kayle main.

AirKingNeo5 votes

Yeah I main her wait about it? I play her enough to understand her much better than most people on the boards. I know her weaknesses and strengths pretty well.

I can say Rylai's falls off because I've played building the same build and my late game was much worse than it used to be.

Her AoE and ult is her uniqueness just like other champions have their own unique abilities.

Papa Andrei1 votes

I think the only issue is she can have more AoE damage than a fes Jinx because of Runaans and her splash

AirKingNeo4 votes

Hurricane bolts don't apply the splash AOE for Kayle's autos unlike Jinx with her Q on.

Marshbouy3 votes

Kayle has counterplay, but that does not stop her kit from being ridiculous and a complete balance issue.

Rylais falling off means almost nothing when the vast majority of games don't get far enough into late game for stat efficiency to start mattering a lot. What does matter is being able to kite the every loving shit out of any melee that jumps on you. Or a group of melees, because the auto attack is AOE.

Her AOE ranged auto attacks are ridiculous because a mana cost of 45 is nothing. In the early game she has to watch her mana a bit, but it's still a 7th of her mana. The cooldown of her E is 16 seconds, but since it lasts for 10 seconds it effectively has a cooldwon of 6. If you throw in her 1st item (nashors according to champion.gg) then the CD is reduced to 12.8 and with a blue buff it's 11.2.

According to champion.gg she takes scaling CDR, around 20% at level 18. That nets her 40% CDR, but since I already stated that most games do not get super far into late game she will realistically be looking at about 30-35%. that's easily enough to make her effective E cooldown around a second, which is literally nothing.

Ranged carries having different autos isn't a problem unless they start to abuse on hits, apply AOE, and apply slows. She also has (arguably) one of the best interactions with Runaans. She has effortless wave clear and harrass for only 45 mana.

Listing a bunch of random ultimates is not an argument. An instantaneous 2-3 second invulnerability is incredibly insane, not to mention it's on such a short cd. It's a massive cock block to anyone trying to kill someone on your team. Everything that you listed can be dodged, flashed, counterbuilt, and has counterplay, but Kayle's ultimate does not have anywhere near the same level except maybe "just walk away and hope that you don't die". "But taric has an invulnerability" You would be correct, but it's very telegraphed and takes a long time to cast. Kayle's is instant.

There's nothing wrong if a champion is different from others.

I want to pull out this line in particular because it's just hilarious. It's a feeble argument at best. I could design a champion who's autos deal 1k true damage with no cooldown or cost. It is clearly busted as hell and would never be allowed in league, but "there's nothing wrong if a champion is different than others".

I pointed out that you are a Kayle main because there are two kinds of mains. there are the ones that recognize their mains issues and accept that their main is not the best, and there are those who insist that their main is completely balanced even when they are not. You appear to be the latter, although not as bad as I have seen.

invisiblecat14 votes

Early game she can't do anything If you let her get 4-5+ items then she will be able to carry her team So if you either shut her down early, or win the game early she isn't busted But I hope she will be getting a rework ######A slow lasting 3 seconds on a low cooldown is stupid

k wìx3 votes

**Absolutely busted currently. ** She is in that sweet spot where she isn't played or noticed enough to get nerfed - but absolutely terrifying in the current meta.

Her ultimate stops her from being focused or controlled and her damage output is absolutely bonkers.

Her ultimate needs to not make her immune to cc... or perhaps no longer castable on herself.

Skelenth41 votes

Her ultimate doesn't make her immune to cc...

Danjeng11 votes

You thinking of Olaf buddy. I know it's confusing, I used to get the two mixed up too! But you got to remember, Olaf walks, while kayle floats. Yes, yes, it'll take some time getting used to picking up the differences, but you'll get the hang of it!

underscores2222 votes

Kayle also has wings (fits in with the floating theme)

AkaliTheOP3 votes

Kayle is one of those dirty counterpicks where she has some insanely good matchups, such as against Darius or Singed, but she's fairly well managed by ranged harass. It's all about knowing how to deal with a champion based on what you have in lane and what your team has late game.

TotalJerk1 votes

Does she really counter Darius? She almost can't really harm him without being in hook range, and lthough she can ult his ult, Kayle is kinda weak to DoT and DPS champions.

Blackstone013 votes

Eh, sort of. She's one of the older "anti-fun" champions, like Tryndamere and OG Poppy. As in if it's strong enough to see play, it's probably overbearingly strong.

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