Janna's winrate.

Snowman Arc·May 9, 2018·7 votes·1,497 views

I just checked how Janna's winrate is after the slight 8.8 nerf, that everyone was calling a joke. Guess what, it went down from 53.8% to 52,4% in patch 8.8 and currently sitting at 52.7%.

The "joke" nerf that everyone criticized Riot for actually dropped her winrate by an average 1.2%, which is pretty impactful.

Maybe, next time you want to joke about changes, wait for them to play out instead. I had pointed out how this nerf would be impactful, especially the MS one and everyone called bullshit. So yeah, instead of laughing about changes, take the time to understand how they can affect a champion. If you don't know how the champion works, then you can't know how a change impacts them.

13 Comments

MarothennanMay 9, 20185 votes

Probably placebo, I don't feel a difference in games

DuskDaUmbreonMay 9, 20184 votes

Everyone calls changes by 5 a joke, but they never are. Especially when those change are to MS or base AD.

OnanThaManMay 9, 20183 votes

Or, they could address the problem which is her kit. Instead of band-aid fixing by hitting her numbers. Both her and Lulu need more skill expression. That's the reason I took issue with the nerfs, it doesn't solve anything, give her time and she'll climb right back to where she was.

NocturnalSheildMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Or, they could address the problem which is her kit. Instead of band-aid fixing by hitting her numbers. Both her and Lulu need more skill expression. That's the reason I took issue with the nerfs, it doesn't solve anything, give her time and she'll climb right back to where she was.

Oh? Except nami has tons of skill expression and just as high winrate and playrate.

They need to nerf the adcs. Not the supports.

AyzevMay 9, 20183 votes

I'm going to try to make it more clear how much these changes actually impacted her power with math.

Let's say, on average, she uses her W every 20 sec to poke the enemy ADC during laning phase; laning phase lasts roughly from 2 mins to 10 mins; and the average damage dealt by each W throughout all of laning phase is 150

150 x (8 x 60 / 20) = a total of 3600 damage dealt with just W. Now with the nerf - 145 x (8 x 60 / 20) = 3480 damage dealt. That's 3.333..% less damage, without counting the damage from autos and Qs, and she still has her shield and ult as well. So the W nerf seems almost negligible.

Now let's put the 5 ms nerf into perspective.

Flash covers 400 units worth of distance. Imagine that being divided into 80 equally long bits. That tiny little bit is how much less Janna can now cover in a full second.

Some more perspective: Using that "3h 20mins to Flash from Nexus to Nexus" loading screen tip, we can calculate the distance between the Nexuses. Flash range - 400, CD - 5 mins, total time taken - 200 mins. So, 400 x 200/5 = 16,000 units. Then with good old Pythagoras' theorem we can find out how long each side of bot lane is. 16,000^2 = 2x^2 x = √((16,000^2)/2 ) = roughly 11,313 units Janna would normally have about 433 movement speed with upgraded boots (assuming her passives stack multiplicatively, not additively, and assuming she didn't pick item 3117 or item 3009 and doesn't have other speed items or runes ), so it would take her about 26.1 seconds to get from her Nexus to the middle of bot lane. Now without that 5 base movement speed, she'd have about 427. Now it takes her 26.5 seconds

The loss of 5 movement speed makes her arrive to lane after a recall/respawn less than half a second later than usual.

#TL;DR - placebo.

Snowman ArcMay 9, 20181 votes

Well, I like that you took the time to do some math, but it's not black and white. As far as W goes, I, as Janna, use it almost off cooldown, so the loss in damage is slightly higher, but that's not even the big nerf. That's placebo for sure. Makes her slightly less oppressive.

The real damage is the MS, and not in the "how long she can get back to lane" department. I am an experienced Janna player, and I know her laning patterns and the way she interacts with other bottom laners. The MS she has and the MS she gets from her W are in such a position that enable her to do things like W-AA-backing off, that now with the -5 MS might not always be able to. The biggest impact of this -5 MS is in the laning phase, where every little detail in positioning matters so much. Even that 5 MS distance that you could be closer can make a difference in the laning phase, because it's all about the tiny details.

Honestly, I haven't played Janna since that nerf, so I cannot tell you for sure if it's a big hit or not, but before the patch, I made an assumption / claim that this will be much more impactful than what it seems, and it shows on her winrate. Nothing else was really touched to make the drop in winrate accused on it. For example, you could tell me that a counterpick support like Thresh got some buffs and people are now picking him more and that's why Janna's winrate dropped, but nothing like that happened, so the drop in her winrate is clearly because of that nerf.

Again, I haven't played her, but I do believe there will be some impact in the details of her laning pattern. Also, you need to understand that because of her W, the MS boosts she gets from it is also lowered, so the total MS she loses is probably more like 7 than 5, which is also lost from her passive damage, along with her W. You can see that slowly all these things can pile up and eventually you see how it can make a difference.

AyzevMay 9, 20181 votes

not in the "how long she can get back to lane" department

That was just something I used to sort of visualize how little of a difference there is. The distance from Nexus to lane is so much longer than what you would cover within the time span of a trade, and even in this longer distance the difference the nerf makes is unnoticeable without doing the math. So in a trade, this detail is so miniscule there's no way you could feel it.

because of her W, the MS boosts she gets from it is also lowered

I accounted for that: "Janna would normally have about 433 movement speed, assuming her passives stack multiplicatively Now without that 5 base movement speed, she'd have about 427"

her passive damage

Scales only with bonus movement speed, not total, so the 5 base itself is irrelevant, and the reduction of the passive bonuses it resulted in is only 0.94. The bonus ms scaling is 35% at most, which results in 0,33 less on-hit damage. So basically negligible.

Snowman ArcMay 10, 20181 votes

Again, the damage nerfs can be completely ignored, they don't do anything. It's the 5 MS (or 6, as you pointed out) that matters a lot imo.

NocturnalSheildMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to try to make it more clear how much these changes actually impacted her power with math.

Let's say, on average, she uses her W every 20 sec to poke the enemy ADC during laning phase; laning phase lasts roughly from 2 mins to 10 mins; and the average damage dealt by each W throughout all of laning phase is 150

150 x (8 x 60 / 20) = a total of 3600 damage dealt with just W. Now with the nerf - 145 x (8 x 60 / 20) = 3480 damage dealt. That's 3.333..% less damage, without counting the damage from autos and Qs, and she still has her shield and ult as well. So the W nerf seems almost negligible.

Now let's put the 5 ms nerf into perspective.

Flash covers 400 units worth of distance. Imagine that being divided into 80 equally long bits. That tiny little bit is how much less Janna can now cover in a full second.

Some more perspective: Using that "3h 20mins to Flash from Nexus to Nexus" loading screen tip, we can calculate the distance between the Nexuses. Flash range - 400, CD - 5 mins, total time taken - 200 mins. So, 400 x 200/5 = 16,000 units. Then with good old Pythagoras' theorem we can find out how long each side of bot lane is. 16,000^2 = 2x^2 x = √((16,000^2)/2 ) = roughly 11,313 units Janna would normally have about 433 movement speed with upgraded boots (assuming her passives stack multiplicatively, not additively, and assuming she didn't pick or and doesn't have other speed items or runes ), so it would take her about 26.1 seconds to get from her Nexus to the middle of bot lane. Now without that 5 base movement speed, she'd have about 427. Now it takes her 26.5 seconds

The loss of 5 movement speed makes her arrive to lane after a recall/respawn less than half a second later than usual.

#TL;DR - placebo.

AP sion once had a 57% winrate and everyone called him the most broken thing ever.

They lowered his AP ratio from 2.0 total to 1.8 total.

He dropped 10% and was declared gutted despite the fact he could still 1 shot everyone he could before with the same amount or items because it was only like a 200 damage loss to a over 2.5k combo.

Placebos are a funny thing.

hhaavviikkMay 9, 20182 votes

win rate really doesn't matter, riot put nerfs in patch notes in the past without actually putting the nerf into the game and the winrate of the champion still went down

NorthernRedStarMay 9, 20182 votes

Still the best pick/win rate ratio among supports. What a nerf!

D357R0Y3RMay 9, 20181 votes

wasn't her win rate 54% instead of 53.8?

KivolanMay 9, 20181 votes

I don't think anyone was joking about the changes. I, for one, was completely serious: the nerf is to the wrong skill, and doesn't go far enough. Her W has never been the problem. Her E is.