Every single champion in this game that scales of AD, hell they don't even have to scale of AD, bursts so hard with this goddamn item and its been 9 months, I can't take this shit any more tbh... Just revert this item to its previous iteration or remove/rework it. It is imo one of the main reasons why the game is snowbally as fuck this preseason.
BobaFlautist24 votesWhat fucking tank builds duskblade in their meta build?
Ralanr13 votesRight?!
I was thinking the same thing.
gabetheguy18 votesRight?!
I was thinking the same thing.
he's one of those people that think that 
= tank
TotalJerk12 votesGaren and Darius should never be building duskblade.
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesGaren and Darius should never be building duskblade.
Bush Q hurts in lane though, he'll be zoning you off minions just by existing. And you can't ward coz he'll sweep it automatically. Return of the Bush-ren.
Whisper877 votesI've seen plenty of times something like a J4 or Garen go duskblade first then go into their usual tanky build. It's lame as hell cuz they rack up like 3-4 kills, then ur like well at least if he goes damage we'll kill him later. Jokes on you, they used the 1300 gold they accumulated to buy a giant's belt and a cloth armor, you aren't killing them cuz they a flat 1000g ahead of you just in kills, not including xp or objective gold.
Admittedly the transition from damage to tankier items is not nearly as smooth as if these champs were to go something like Black Cleaver first, but it doesn't matter cuz its such a big early game power spike. I'm gonna go ahead and say right now the gamble pays off more often than not.
Ralanr9 votesSure, but Garen and J4 aren’t tanks.
BobaFlautist4 votesTo be fair, Jarvan is one of the last divers that has the flexibility to play as a pure initiating vanguard if he still chooses. Still doesn't build duskblade to do it, though.
Whisper877 votesJ4 is a tank if he just builds tank items instead of damage. Cinderhulk into full tank items is fully viable right now. But I've had a game where J4 just built the scout's knife jugnle item, then went duskblade, then went cinderhulk into full tank. Again, this is obviously not efficient but it didnt matter cuz he railed on kids for like 3 kills and an assist with just the duskblade for damage
DrAtomMagnumMDPh3 voteshe's one of those people that think that
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand none of those are tanks.
Azadethe6 votesAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand none of those are tanks.
Sure they aren't. The build 1 offensive item, and the rest is tank.
It's not like those defensive items treat them any different than anyone else building them. You're basically arguing semantics of Juggernaut vs other tanks. They are tanks. Garen even has tank features.... insane Tenactiy, insane self regen, and a passive gain of armor for killing minions.
200 Armor is 200 Armor. No matter who it's on.
DrAtomMagnumMDPh3 votesSure they aren't. The build 1 offensive item, and the rest is tank.
It's not like those defensive items treat them any different than anyone else building them. You're basically arguing semantics of Juggernaut vs other tanks. They are tanks. Garen even has tank features.... insane Tenactiy, insane self regen, and a passive gain of armor for killing minions.
200 Armor is 200 Armor. No matter who it's on.
Yes those stats are not treating them different but being a tank is about more than defense. Initiation, cc, utylity. Juggernauts don't have them. And sustain is more of a fighter stat, the only tank that has it who i can think of right now is maokai (imo thats what makes him broken in the first place).
DoktorKaiser5 votesEven though I started playing in a time when Garen and Darius were called tanks, as was any champion that built 0-2 damage items, I am not an idiot and I know what class each champion belongs in atm... I don't see a reason to be this rude...
gabetheguy2 votesEven though I started playing in a time when Garen and Darius were called tanks, as was any champion that built 0-2 damage items, I am not an idiot and I know what class each champion belongs in atm... I don't see a reason to be this rude...
other tanks have cc. and actual engage capabilities. and actual, you know, tank features.
DoktorKaiser5 votesAs I said, in Season 1 or 2 there was no bullshit like 50 different classes. It was ADC, healer, mage, assassin, bruiser and tank. Tanks were the ones who go full tank regardless of CC. Now its way too complicated imo...
gabetheguy1 votesAs I said, in Season 1 or 2 there was no bullshit like 50 different classes. It was ADC, healer, mage, assassin, bruiser and tank. Tanks were the ones who go full tank regardless of CC. Now its way too complicated imo...
you seem to be forgetting that riot had absolutely no fucking idea what they were doing in those seasons.
DoktorKaiser1 votesOh I disagree, they knew how to do the most important thing back then - to make the game super fun for everyone. I don't recall them being able to do it since season 5. On the contrary, they have no idea what the fuck they are doing in the last 2 years and the game went from fun with friends to a solo chore because unlike me, the retard who plays every day even though I will probably get a stroke soon, they quit the game as soon as it became a boring pile of trash.
gabetheguy1 votesOh I disagree, they knew how to do the most important thing back then - to make the game super fun for everyone. I don't recall them being able to do it since season 5. On the contrary, they have no idea what the fuck they are doing in the last 2 years and the game went from fun with friends to a solo chore because unlike me, the retard who plays every day even though I will probably get a stroke soon, they quit the game as soon as it became a boring pile of trash.
lol adding dodge as a stat in a multiplayer game is a fundamentally awful idea. same with giving a champion a passive that gives them damage reduction based on LITERAL rng.
Winek Chan4 votesI like going Ornn AD.
Ralanr1 votesWhy? Only his autos and Q scale with AD.
DoktorKaiser5 votesOh I guess you didn't have the pleasure to get rekt by a Duskblade Malphite or Leona or Blitzcrank or Ornn or Cho. It isn't and should NEVER be meta but hey why not fucking abuse it to get a free win amirite... Yes its only a small part of the problem since its almost never built on them, but the sole fact that it can work really well already shows how broken it is.
Then come the bruisers and juggernauts - almost every single one of them build it. ADCs also abuse it if possible, the only ones who don't are super long range crit abusers like Trist or Cait. Assassins and skirmishers of course build it because its their core, but that doesn't make it any more fun to play against.
I like Youmuu, I even liked Edge of Night when it was broken af, but this piece of shit needs to die because when at least 50% of all the champions in the game rush it then there is surely something wrong imo.
AirKingNeo3 votesDuskblade Malphite or Leona or Blitzcrank or Ornn
Sorry, but could you not troll on these forums?
AirKingNeo1 votesCommon sense isn't common, so we get posts like this and need comments like this.
taleofsonata1 votesWhat fucking tank builds duskblade in their meta build?
Daddy Ants8 votesDeleting Lethality as a whole would be a good way to make this game less snowball oriented.
Great Ozymandius7 votesIn ARAM, I got leblanc, and I bought duskblade first item.
'w' in from out of stealth, auto at range, and get a zero-counterplay duskblade proc. Repeat ad naseum.
The other team was so pissed about it and the fact that there was nothing they could do.
SNIP3RIUM5 votesUmmmm.... Did uh hear of 
?
Tormentula15 votesUmmmm.... Did uh hear of
Cause lemme tell you how much assassin targeted champions love to build ninja tabi.
ZeroAgainst11 votes
Cause lemme tell you how much assassin targeted champions love to build ninja tabi.
you forgot about those adc 
players they exist sadly
TotalJerk1 votesYou ought to know that high elo ADCs commonly build tabi when they have to.
DoktorKaiser4 votesBuilding it on ADC doesn't make their build feel like shit, magic pen is wastly superior stat to a bit of attack speed. Not to mention that ADC-s can use Tabis better due to them almost always having some sustain. Its really not comparable.
bbQsauçe2 votes[deleted]
Tormentula11 votes[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FaJP5GIo,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2017-12-21T22:18:10.593+0000)
Then let's feed because you don't want to build ninja tabi. If you don't build defensive at least don't complain when you get killed.
Cause I'm sure on a mage will be enough to save me and without sorc I'll do enough damage to break through their 
We're talking only tabi, because unless I see deadman's+ROA+tabi syndra that bitch isn't living a duskblade hexdrinker kha'zix. (not implying I think kha is broken). Point is, the item isn't efficient enough on a squishy champion to really be an option for them in the first place. Its fine on fighters/tanks because they stack the stats that synergize with tabi's damage reduction, but the OP is acting like "duh, tabi on anything balances duskblade", which is not true for mages or marksmen or even most battle mages, and if that's what the meta comes to then something is horribly wrong.
Shablagoo1 votes 
75 bonus armor 15 flat pen along with 40% total mr along with 30% cdr and 607 ap honestly a pretty decent build. Mages actually dont need as much pen as they think they do, let me explain why has the shield it does. 
Both offer only 60 mr by themselves with just void staff alone 24 of that is gone, along with 18 or 15 depending on if they have sorc boots or 
. This is ofc not even counting the shield which chunks off alot, it would also be alot more if you add the natural mr scalings too because void removes a total of ur mr. A Xerath with this example full build with one maxed q will deal 240+(.75 of 607) 455 = 695.25 dmg, 
blocks half of that, which only triggers at 30% health that is just one q not even a full combo thats still a 395.25 dmg q. And i understand what ur gonna say, what about in lane, if zed rushes that just means you need more dmg in that case you can rush tabis and focus on more dmg later, honestly going tabi's to help win lane is a better option then jsut giving up and bitching on forums.
Azadethe6 votes
Keep in mind most anti mages right now are using both Maw + the magic barrier from Sorcery.
I rarely if at all ever build Sorcery boots.
But, Stop acting like Ninja tabis are strong enough to deal with Assassins. They're not. I can have 300 Armor and a Lethality Shaco will still 3 hit me. A tank can have 4000 hp and 400 Armor, and a Zed will 1 combo kill him, due to his ult being calculated PRE MITIGATION.
TeCoolMage1 votesIt's still physical damage afterwards, it's not ignoring resistances, it's just designed to be affected by it as much as every other ability.
Azadethe1 votesIt's still physical damage afterwards, it's not ignoring resistances, it's just designed to be affected by it as much as every other ability.
The thing is, his ult has a trait which counteracts any armor balances, and his living shadow/duskblade procs scale so high that it doesn't matter if you have 400 armor. He can do pre-mitigation damage of 3982 before his ult procs.
The additional 5-15% AD he receives from killing a high AD target like a primed Darius or a Jhin counters any damage lost from armor.
So..... let's look at this build: 
That's 280 Bonus AD. Suppose another target on the map has about 400 AD, and Zed has killed them. That's 60 more AD, or 340 Bonus AD.
Vs our 400 Armor 4000 hp target, a Point blank Zed Ults, creating a shadow, after having a shadow existing (2 shadows + Zed).
He uses Hydra for about 350 damage, Duskblade for 291 twice (pre ult proc, post ult proc) and each shadow hits a Shuriken for what begins as 220 +306 for zed + 394 per shadow.
In addition, he gets in a Shadow Slash for 442.
That's a total of 2688, and that gets pumped to 3,225 by Lord Dominik's.
That's pre mitigation.
Now, Zed on this build has 30% Armor reduction on the target, dropping his base to 280 over the course of this barrage, and he has at least 36 Lethality, maybe more from runes. So we're talking about a 244 armor target pre Ignore armor from the Lord Dominik's. With its armor ignore, we're talking about 400 armor being 146 Armor.
Now granted, this is just a model, and the armor of the target will vary based on the point at which each skill is cast and in what order, but Hydra and Duskblade alone will almost completely proc the Black Cleaver, so most of this will pass through.
You still take about 59% damage at 146 Armor.
So, of that initial 3225 damage, Zed will pass through about 1900 damage, putting our 4000 hp tank at 2100 hp pre ult proc.
The Ult will then calculate 460 (AD 100%) + 45% of damage dealth pre mitigation, or 1451 = 1911 damage*1.2 *.59 = 1353 damage.
So. at the balance, without Zed's passive, and without counting some auto attack damage (he might have got 1-2 of those in there too) Zed just did 3252 MINIMUM to a 4000 hp tank.
And, his passive takes 10% of, and if it was timed right, that's another 400 + 180 damage, putting Zed's damage at 3,832. Almost a 1 combo kill.
AND..... while I was working out these numbers, I forgot a few things: Runes. I didn't include Electrocute in this, and I didn't include the 15 bonus AD from that, or any runes that do damage in addition. On this build, if Zed had Transcendence, that'd be another 12 AD, possibly 24 AD with Blue.
In other words, there's a lot more damage that would put these calculations over the top.
And, in reality, there are targets to kill with more than 400 AD too. Jhin, Darius (when timed right), Jayce... there are realistically some 500-700 AD targets.
I've also seen this in practice. I've seen a Zed 100-0 a Nautilus with these stats with 1 combo.
Shablagoo1 votesHonestly man no matter what I say you will find a way to think how op it is regardless, lets not pretend that ap burst isnt doing any dmg or something, when kata is also bursting targets fast too, like I dont understand what you expect considering there is little resists in terms of armor but it is even worse considering mr scaling is so little.
Azadethe1 votesHonestly man no matter what I say you will find a way to think how op it is regardless, lets not pretend that ap burst isnt doing any dmg or something, when kata is also bursting targets fast too, like I dont understand what you expect considering there is little resists in terms of armor but it is even worse considering mr scaling is so little.
If people actually build mag resist, it works fine. I can tank a 20/1 Ziggs with a void staff once I have 3 resist items, and outdamage him in a duel with any mage I'm playing, or AD I'm playing.
The problem is people right now are so set in the Duskblade meta, that no one builds magic resist vs that one or two mages, who they figure they can just work around (ie 4 AD team with an Annie or Malhazar).
You really can't build vs both AD and AP anymore, so a Zed top + Kat game is going to be brutal. In a game with a Kat and several mages however, she's not bad at all.
I'm saying this as someone who regularly tank Morgs and Tank Ahris btw.... I can destroy any mage with a tank mage.
Shablagoo1 votesCan I just say something you building tank items does not make you a tank, thats why their are subclasses that specifically set into their certain categories. If everyone was a tank because they built health and armor/magic resist then we wouldnt have subclasses. That is why db is a real problem because it makes EVERYTHING assassins, having burst dmg, but then champions like mf exist and have sustain dmg as well which really ruins things for the game. However morg and ahri building tank items does nothing because you one morg can kill ap champions going mr or armor because of her magic shield so she in a sense counters mages already. However you wouldnt be able to 1v1 a mage building tank items as morg that, if you build straight tank with vs a mage with void then that shouldnt be. Also if building tank items works then you must be playing against bad players because her scalings and base stats shouldnt even work if you go tank you will do no dmg. ANOTHER thing is if you go tank mage and expect to kill zed unless you are veigar you are dreaming because you wont even have the base dmg.
Also real tanks do not die to assassins, and im taking about the tanks that got reworked, no rammus, mao, sej, and maybe zac idk what state he is in will lose to an assassin unless he is full build and has with his team. There are certain aspects to tanks that make them tanks.
TeCoolMage1 votesWell technically flat MPen is best built to abuse low MR situations.
If you know they'll rush hexdrinker with 1300 gold, get defensive items too like 2 cloth armour (for seeker's) + ruby crystal if you're going Glp/RoA/protobelt/liandry's or just build seeker's if not.
The fact seeker's is not as good as hexdrinker is a problem, but armour does counter lethality more heavily than MR counters MPen, due to void staff being more core than LW (no one builds that with lethality nowadays). So bank on getting past laning phase even, then you should start being at an advantage
Thefrostyviking1 votesLemme tell you how some things are just necessary even if we don't want em, like most mages need to stand a chance against 
If the pro´s can build it i believe you can too x)
Tormentula6 votesLemme tell you how some things are just necessary even if we don't want em, like most mages need
If the pro´s can build it i believe you can too x)
Difference is those items offer benefits outside their niches in countering certain champions.
No mage minds buying since it gives AP, CDR, and armor + a strong active thats useful for multiple scenarios rather then just zed R's. They may not appreciate rushing it, but its not gimping them just to survive.
Tabi on a tank/bruiser/diver is fine because they don't sacrifice anything meaningful to build it and the rest of their builds contain health + more armor to help synergize with tabi.
Tabi on a mage / marksmen/battle mage however cripples them out of magic penetration or attack speed. Basically you're sacrificing actual combat stats just to potentially live a one shot auto, and even then you'd die no matter probably with the bonus of you not being capable of retaliating enough damage or DPS.
Thefrostyviking2 votesBuying Zhonya isn't a bad thing.
Rushing it however, is absolutely crippling if your jungler doesn't spoon feed you blues, zed will just shove 2-3 waves, force you to OOM if you want to take the CS then he either roams of or dives in and either gets a kill or a enemy recall out of it.
And he has immediate kill pressure the moment he hits 6, and more so when he reaches 
.
If you don't have by the time he gets duskblade it's basically impossible to stop him from doing whatever he wants to.
bbQsauçe7 votes[deleted]
Azadethe6 votes[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FaJP5GIo,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-12-21T22:16:41.227+0000)
It's so sad this post is downvoted even though it's the purest and simple truth. People are just delusional, they buy 0 defensive items and then just complain they get killed.
Or they buy 4 defensive items and still get erased by % damage Zed, who calculates his % damage pre mitigation (so more damage bypasses armor when the % hits), or by a back stabbing Shaco. Or by a fed Rengar or Kha..... all of which really have no counterplay if they get in that state (which Zed always gets in that state, as does Shaco. Rengar and Kha MAINS get in that state too (albiet people new to them don't know to gank and kill the opposing jungler level 2 and just take over their jungle, so they do far worse)
Duskblade has the same factor Ardent Censer had that got it nerfed into the ground: he who wins the race to Duskblade wins the snowball. If Zed gets 6 first, has a Duskblade by 7-8 minutes, there is almost nothing a bot lane can do to stop him, because they are 2 levels behind him due to the shared lane, and their initial items are 1) offensive or 2) utilitarian. And after Zed Assassinates 3-4 people, Ninja tabis just dont do crap. Nor does building a Frozen Heart, Thornmail, or Zhonyas.
And no Zhonya's doesn't actually counter this power creep. If a Zed or other assassin is good, they won't ult until they know you don't have Zhonya's and And they just set up their more common harass ( Zed can kill without his ult, simply by setting up living shadows correctly. He can guarantee a post Zhonya's kill simply by waiting it out, or kill someone simply by hiding around a tight corner with a presummoned shadow)
DoktorKaiser5 votesWait so you suggested that a fucking Ninja Tabi will make Zed or Talon or Kha not 1 shot me instead of the usual situation where I am deleted in half a second. And you are calling people delusional??? For me to not get 1 shot I would probably have to buy a Dead Man's or Randuin's in adition to Tabi and Zhonya's. Remind again, what mage in this game will have any damage left with 2 purely armor items and a gutted Zhonya's ??
TheDevice3 votesWait so you suggested that a fucking Ninja Tabi will make Zed or Talon or Kha not 1 shot me instead of the usual situation where I am deleted in half a second. And you are calling people delusional??? For me to not get 1 shot I would probably have to buy a Dead Man's or Randuin's in adition to Tabi and Zhonya's. Remind again, what mage in this game will have any damage left with 2 purely armor items and a gutted Zhonya's ??
Who are you playing as that you are getting 1-shot. Can you provide any screen shots or any information at all other than "OMG im dying cuz of item. 1-shot nerf dis pls"
Show something.
Blåbæret5 votesBut ADCs AAing you twice for 2x 1k crits is fine?
