Where does Aurelion Sol leave Amumu though?

Fraggleroc·Mar 9, 2016·1 votes·2,538 views

They have similar skillset... but Aurelion's leave Amumu's in the dust?

Discuss. /shed Amumu tears

51 Comments

DrCyanideMar 9, 20166 votes

That's like asking where Anivia leaves Amumu... The question doesn't make sense.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's like asking where Anivia leaves Amumu... The question doesn't make sense.

If u say that... Can I pose a similar hypothesis? -

Why are some champs hardly played at all whereas other champs are popular? Bingo there's a reason!

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20163 votes

Because they don't appeal to as many people.

How exactly does your hypothesis mean anything?

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because they don't appeal to as many people.

How exactly does your hypothesis mean anything?

Except that's not the main reason. Trust me... many people LOVE Amumu but we're not playing him. I'm one of them.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

Then you don't really like playing him if you aren't. Amumu does fine right now, and if you actually liked playing him, you would.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Then you don't really like playing him if you aren't. Amumu does fine right now, and if you actually liked playing him, you would.

No. I'm not playing him because AoE comp is not meta. And there are many more faster Jungler with more utility. I would love to play him... I love the character concept and everything about Amumu.... which makes me even more sad.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20162 votes

There is no such thing as "AoE comp". Amumu is an engage tank -- those are always in the meta. And you can't get more utility then team wide AoE lockdown. If you really want to play Amumu, then play him. If you know how, then it will work.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There is no such thing as "AoE comp". Amumu is an engage tank -- those are always in the meta. And you can't get more utility then team wide AoE lockdown. If you really want to play Amumu, then play him. If you know how, then it will work.

There definitely used to be an AoE comp that Amumu and Fiddlesticks thrive in. But many junglers can do that job much better right now. Right now Sieging and fast lane-push trumps most things so we're not seeing it that much.

BladeSteelMar 9, 20161 votes

actually amumu is one of the strongest junglers right now in solo que.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

actually amumu is one of the strongest junglers right now in solo que.

Amumu is still good in low elo soloQ because of 2 things- 1) he has a simple to use kit. 2) he has 2 hard CCs.

I never said Amumu isn't good. His kit is just old, less versatility. Aurelion is more versatile and better in the right hands. Like an updated version.

BladeSteelMar 9, 20161 votes

aurelion isn't a "better" amumu. Amumu is an engage tank. Aurelion is a sustained damage mage. Aurelion does decent in the jungle, but his laning will be better.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

aurelion isn't a "better" amumu. Amumu is an engage tank. Aurelion is a sustained damage mage. Aurelion does decent in the jungle, but his laning will be better.

U will see Aurelion's engage potential soon. It was pretty much a consensus checking out Redmercy's and others' youtube.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

Ashe has a strong engage. Is she a replacement for Amumu?

BladeSteelMar 9, 20161 votes

I've seen it. Doesn't mean he's a "better" Amumu. Like someone else said, Ashe has a strong engage, and from further away than amumu, is she a replacement?

DrCyanideMar 9, 20162 votes

OK, let's look at the engage potential:

Amumu goes from bandage toss (gap closer + single target lockdown) to ultimate (AoE lockdown), following up with AoE damage close to him.

Aurelian Sol walks up to the enemy team. Any ranged skillshot can stop his increased movement speed, causing his AoE stun to miss everyone. I'm not talking about dodging or CC, as those would interfere with both champions, I'm talking any damaging ability. Assuming Aurelian Sol lands his stun, he then has to do AoE damage, using his passive, but that leaves a massive gap where no damage is dealt, and you'll likely not damage enemies close enough that Amumu could damage them.

At the end of the day, Lissandra's engage pattern is more similar to Amumus than Aurelian Sol's is. You don't see Lissandra terrorizing the jungle. Aurelian Sol is more comparable to Anivia, in that they're firing a straight line AoE stun, following it up with some AoE damage and slows, and having some disengage tool.

Amumu is a very well played champion. If I recall correctly, if all champions were played evenly they'd have about a 3% play rate. Amumu is double that, with a very high win rate. He's not new or animated in cleaver ways, but he's very effective.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

OK, let's look at the engage potential:

Amumu goes from bandage toss (gap closer + single target lockdown) to ultimate (AoE lockdown), following up with AoE damage close to him.

Aurelian Sol walks up to the enemy team. Any ranged skillshot can stop his increased movement speed, causing his AoE stun to miss everyone. I'm not talking about dodging or CC, as those would interfere with both champions, I'm talking any damaging ability. Assuming Aurelian Sol lands his stun, he then has to do AoE damage, using his passive, but that leaves a massive gap where no damage is dealt, and you'll likely not damage enemies close enough that Amumu could damage them.

At the end of the day, Lissandra's engage pattern is more similar to Amumus than Aurelian Sol's is. You don't see Lissandra terrorizing the jungle. Aurelian Sol is more comparable to Anivia, in that they're firing a straight line AoE stun, following it up with some AoE damage and slows, and having some disengage tool.

Amumu is a very well played champion. If I recall correctly, if all champions were played evenly they'd have about a 3% play rate. Amumu is double that, with a very high win rate. He's not new or animated in cleaver ways, but he's very effective.

Yes, I realised that. But Aurelion makes up for that with utility. What is important is the initiation effect of both champions because that would be the whole point of picking these 2 champs. If u have seen videos by Redmercy or Pants R Dragons... Aurelion comes in at such a speed and u can't really guess where he's coming from, his initiation is arguably better than Amumu's. Amumu's bandage toss has decent range but it requires a precise hit... Have u seen the size of Aurelion's Q?

DrCyanideMar 9, 20163 votes

If you're picking Aurelian Sol for initiation you're using him wrong, in much the same way that using Lulu for initiation would be wrong. Sure, you could speed up Lulu into the enemy team then have her use Wild Growth on herself, but why would you?

Lulu has more utility than both Amumu and Aurelian Sol, so if you're going for that take her instead of either of them.

Day 1 clips of champions don't impress me much. People are still learning how to play around them. After a week or two you start to get the feel of how to play around these champions. You saw Day 1 Illaoi Pentakills, but that doesn't happen any more because people figured out how to play around her.

If you're getting the massive Q's that these video clips are showing, you've been going in a straight line since you were at your fountain and the enemy team hasn't budged in the 20 seconds it took to cross the map. It's a rather unlikely scenario to maintain in a game with an Aurelian Sol in it much after his release.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you're picking Aurelian Sol for initiation you're using him wrong, in much the same way that using Lulu for initiation would be wrong. Sure, you could speed up Lulu into the enemy team then have her use Wild Growth on herself, but why would you?

Lulu has more utility than both Amumu and Aurelian Sol, so if you're going for that take her instead of either of them.

Day 1 clips of champions don't impress me much. People are still learning how to play around them. After a week or two you start to get the feel of how to play around these champions. You saw Day 1 Illaoi Pentakills, but that doesn't happen any more because people figured out how to play around her.

If you're getting the massive Q's that these video clips are showing, you've been going in a straight line since you were at your fountain and the enemy team hasn't budged in the 20 seconds it took to cross the map. It's a rather unlikely scenario to maintain in a game with an Aurelian Sol in it much after his release.

Yes but that's only ONE of Aurelion's skill. But that's like Amumu's whole kit. If Aurelion's Q hits, that's like what Amumu's whole kit does. If Aurelion's Q misses, he still has his range, his ult and enemy zoning/lane-shoving W. Amumu goes all-in and counts on that initiation and nothing else to fall back on. And all of a sudden, with the introduction of Aurelion/Lissandra... that initiation doesn't seemed all that impressive anymore. That is the problem.

DrCyanideMar 9, 20163 votes

No... no that's two skills from Aurelion Sol's kit compared to two skills from Amumu's kit.

I'm done trying to reason with you. Amumu's in a fine state, and this new champion isn't very likely to tread on his toes in the slightest. He's got more competition for Sejuani and Gragas than from Aurelion Sol.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No... no that's two skills from Aurelion Sol's kit compared to two skills from Amumu's kit.

I'm done trying to reason with you. Amumu's in a fine state, and this new champion isn't very likely to tread on his toes in the slightest. He's got more competition for Sejuani and Gragas than from Aurelion Sol.

One skill and an ULT that make up for Amumu's whole kit.

kyocrisisMar 9, 20163 votes

Their kits don't seem to be very similar at all except a stun

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Their kits don't seem to be very similar at all except a stun

It is similar... just that Aurelion's better utility. Amumu's E is simply a 2 hit melee.

kyocrisisMar 9, 20163 votes

{quoted}

It is similar... just that Aurelion's better utility. Amumu's E is simply a 2 hit melee.

Uh, mumu doesn't fly or have expanding rotating stars around him. And their ults aren't similar either. And they don't play the same lanes and one is a tank the other a mage...

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Uh, mumu doesn't fly or have expanding rotating stars around him. And their ults aren't similar either. And they don't play the same lanes and one is a tank the other a mage...

Both can be prominent in Jungle. Aurelion is viable in a number of lanes. Why did u say they don't play on similar lanes? Aurelion flies because he is Super-Saiyan Amumu... like I mentioned =)

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20162 votes

Quick question: do you actually know what Amumu's and Aurelion Sol's kits are?

Unlucky Number7Mar 9, 20162 votes

I don't see how you could compare the two. Aurelion Sol thrives at mid range and does horribly against champions that can get close. ammumu Thrives at close range so that he can do percent max hp damage.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unlucky Number7,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FXojNBhN,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-03-09T09:24:34.692+0000)

I don't see how you could compare the two. Aurelion Sol thrives at mid range and does horribly against champions that can get close. ammumu Thrives at close range so that he can do percent max hp damage.

I would argue that Aurelion Sol does horribly against champs that can close in on him. He can kite decently against most melee champs. His simple kit is deceptively good at accomplishing a number of things.

Amumu's W has a small aoe. And Amumu's E is merely a lackluster aoe burst/physical dmg reduction in the grand scheme of things. Functionally, they work the same with Aurelion's skills... chase down or kite. But the clutch comes from Amumu is more all-in without the impact of higher dmg. Aurelion is more versatile.

Unlucky Number7Mar 9, 20161 votes

did you mean

{quoted}

I would argue that Aurelion Sol does **well **against champs that can close in on him. He can kite decently against most melee champs. His simple kit is deceptively good at accomplishing a number of things.

if so than i, and riot, have to disagree on that. he's got 2 panic buttons for when a champion closes in on him his q which has a smaller aoe close to him and his ult which has a long wind up time. Aurelion sol's damage is concentrated in his passive. he does basically no damage to enemies who get close enough to him. his q is slow moving and doesn't activate on collision, so if he's hit by a dash that has hard cc component, such as amumu, then it'll wiff. The main method to deal with Aurelion is to get inside his passive and stay there. The listed counters are graves and akali but i know of a few others. zed, amumu, olaf, irelia,, garen, or bassically annyone with a good gap closer and some cc. also did you know that activated his w increases damage? The damage he has with it not active isn't much to write home about. did you also know that any hard cc disables his passive? amumu doesn't have that problem. he'lls still do damage even if you cc him. The counter to aurelion is to get close. the counter to amumu is to stay away.

Unlucky Number7Mar 9, 20161 votes

also that's the thing. Aurelion has to kite enemies. Enemies have to kite amumu.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

Anivia's skillset is vastly different from Amumu's. So no problem there.

Aurelion Sol is like Super-Saiyan Amumu.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20162 votes

How?

Unlucky Number7Mar 9, 20161 votes

if that's true then where's the percent max damage?

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

U get a similar great initiator... with a aoe dmg skill (ok not exactly aoe but similar constant passive dmg) around him and stuns. With the added effect that Aurelion is ranged and has a move speed across terrain boost.

I mean, doesn't Rito take note of this stuff? Unless there's a rework of Amumu ahead?

edit: Yeah I forgot about the ult Line knockback. Aurelion > Amumu in every way.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20162 votes

Except that Amumu is a tank, and Sol is a mage. They are literally nothing alike.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except that Amumu is a tank, and Sol is a mage. They are literally nothing alike.

Aurelion will be built tanky btw... in that sense, I can say that Amumu can be built a mage too.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

Sol will build health, and if he gets a Zhyona's, armor.

Amumu builds armor, health, MR, and if he's able to, some AP.

They are opposites of each other

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sol will build health, and if he gets a Zhyona's, armor.

Amumu builds armor, health, MR, and if he's able to, some AP.

They are opposites of each other

the concept is the same. Both will be built tanky. Rod of Ages is equally useful to both.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20162 votes

No, it isn't the same. Singed or Nautilus aren't mages because they build a RoA, and neither is Amumu.

Sol will be durable, but he won't be tanky, unless you build him that way, in which case he wont really do damage.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, it isn't the same. Singed or Nautilus aren't mages because they build a RoA, and neither is Amumu.

Sol will be durable, but he won't be tanky, unless you build him that way, in which case he wont really do damage.

Cmon, is that your only point of contention for them being different? Sigh.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20162 votes

That's my point of contention to your argument that Sol is a tank.

As for saying Sol is "a better Amumu", that's so wrong I can't even begin to address it.

You seriously think they are similar?

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's my point of contention to your argument that Sol is a tank.

As for saying Sol is "a better Amumu", that's so wrong I can't even begin to address it.

You seriously think they are similar?

Yes. I would pick Aurelion over Amumu more than 80% of the time if I want to accomplish what is to be done for that sorta jungling. As for the other 20%, I would simply pick other junglers.

Moulin RougeMar 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sol will build health, and if he gets a Zhyona's, armor.

Amumu builds armor, health, MR, and if he's able to, some AP.

They are opposites of each other

Actually we are seeing frozen heart+abyssal be core to him. Which is 90 armor+50 mr respectively. Add in a RoA+Rylais and maybe Liandries and you have about 1200 extra hp and 370 AP.

Personally, I would skip liandries and get a ludens.

Not agreeing with OP but im just saying lol

JorenciceMar 9, 20161 votes

And mage amumu will absolutely ahhnilate sol.

11% max health damage a second and over 1700 burst damage equals dead sol.

So says biased ap amumu player.

kyocrisisMar 9, 20161 votes

Aurelion may be viable in the jungle, we don't know yet. But Amumu definitely isn't viable mid which is likely to be Sol's main lane anyway. So yea, like I said. There's almost nothing similar about their kits. They can both be built tanky ap though but there are a number of champs like that.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

Stop downvoting me if you don't have anything to contribute. Look at it objectively pls. It's an important issue for Rito moving forward.

Right now, Amumu still see some minimal gameplay for his initiation but with Aurelion's introduction... I'm not sure where it'll leave Amumu. Just offering a point of discussion here.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

And Yes, I like to pose the hard, unpopular questions so Rito can think thru their actions.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

I'm a Top main.. and I would play him top too. I would get some sustain like regen/spell vamp and Aurelion will be a great top.

FragglerocMar 9, 20161 votes

It's all about the chase down or kite play.

Maybe it's just the way I compare champs' kits. I used to be an old Shen main. With the changes to Shen and removing his ranged Q sustain. Guess what I play these days- Tahm Kench.

U can say Tahm and Shen are completely different beasts. But I play them the exact same way. The only difference being Tahm's ult is half a map shorter and I need to play safer with Tahm because he does not have Shen's dash but he has mostly an easier laning phase.

It's the same how I see Aurelion vs Amumu.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

So, two champions with an entirely different playstyle have a similar goal (protecting teammates)?