The state of the mage class is unacceptable atm

Anime Fizz·Oct 7, 2019·13 votes·2,523 views

They are being played IN EVERY POSITION IN WORLDS.

They are DOMINATING high elo solo queue.

They are strong early-mid-late game, they have the best itemization in the game, they are singlehandedly making classes like bruisers and tanks obsolete (and even adcs to a small extent).

When is riot going to do something? How can a champ like syndra/vlad/ekko/neeko be allowed to stay in their current states? How can klepto/stopwatch/hourglass/voidstaff/ludens/basically whole mage itemization stay like this?

This is all not even mentioning how garbage MR is as a stat, there isnt a single good MR item in the game while mages just get to blast you away with 40% total pen cheap void staff, its stupid as hell.

Stop ignoring the elephant in the room riot, please atleast aknowledge the issue of mages and say you have plans to fix this, the radio silence doesnt help.

30 Comments

Zeppelins circusOct 7, 20196 votes

I'm saying this for a while, but since Riot introduced cdr on almost every mage core item, the game speed accelerated so hard because of how many ults and CC the champion can provide. The core problem is how AP items have so many stats and passives attached to them. item 3285 item 3030 item 3003 item 3157 item 3152 These items need their cdr removed. And then new items should be explored to provide cdr with no mana or hp attached to it.

HP CrookshanksOct 7, 20194 votes

Which mage builds item 3152 ?

Zeppelins circusOct 7, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FLtuAiaT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T22:05:22.618+0000)

Which mage builds ?

Ekko, Vladmir Rumble. Top meta popular picks in this patch and the most dominant.

HP CrookshanksOct 7, 20194 votes

Ekko and Rumble aren't mages. Dealing magic damage doesn't automatically make you a mage. Vlad can build it because item 3152 is really stong at early game and he doesn't have to rush a mana item unlike actual mages and it's AP/HP synergises very well with his overpowered passive.

HP CrookshanksOct 7, 20196 votes

You are clearly biased and Ekko isn't even a mage.

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20194 votes

Mage is short for "magic user". Do you build AD on ekko?

HP CrookshanksOct 7, 20192 votes

By that logic half of the champions are mages.

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20193 votes

Not really. I would only consider mages as champions that "use magic". (ie they build ap). For example, mundo deals magic damage, but its not correct to build ap on him, since he needs tank items, hence he is not a mage because he builds tank and not AP.

anatasjhsh01Oct 8, 20191 votes

In that situation he is a bruiser mage, or a battle mage

ChrisBrownzeOct 8, 20193 votes

I see where you're coming from, but wouldnt you consider Mundo to primarily be a tank whose main goal is to build defenses and absorb damage, not deal damage.

MrFawknSunshineOct 8, 20191 votes

mundo is a juggernaut and does a good amount of damage

he isnt a tank

anatasjhsh01Oct 8, 20191 votes

This is bullshit crook I do hope you are being sarcastic, it like saying garden and Darius are not bruisers they are juggernauts.

Zeppelins circusOct 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

This is bullshit crook I do hope you are being sarcastic, it like saying garden and Darius are not bruisers they are juggernauts.

He is just subverting the subject to his fairy land.

Me: AP items with CDR are strong. This dude: No rumble and ekko are not mages! Me: Dafaq has to do with the items?

This person is not doing basic conversation.

KeiagaOct 7, 20194 votes

Would be a shame if riot actually listened to people like you.

Sure, some mages could use some tweaks but some of the ones you listed are already close to being some of the worst performing champs in the game for the 99.5% of the player base that isn't Master+ Neeko and Vlad are ranked at 96 and 94/145 in diamond and they get worse the lower elo you go.

Lissandra is in a bad spot. Ryze is worthless. Karma already got nerfed into the ground. Leblanc is doing poorly. Viktor is bad, at least right now before he gets his updates. Azir is still forgotten.

It's almost like mages as a whole aren't really a problem and there's just a handful of champs that could use some nerfs that just happen to be mages.

edit: I do think that mage items need a little bit of a nerf with how many stats and CDR they give in general though.

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20194 votes

Ryze has already been picked 5 times at worlds, with a 100% winrate. Your opinions of champs do not apply to high elo.

KeiagaOct 7, 20191 votes

Yea, whenever I speak, I'm not talking about the top 0.05% of players that make up Masters rank and above/proplay.

I'm talking about the other 99.95% of the playerbase when I say that Ryze is worthless. And if you think that anything the pros do applies to you or are more pertinent to your games than the statistics of the other 99.95% of the player base then that's another dicussion entirely about your delusion.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20193 votes

So you think Riot should buff a champ so that theyre playable in low elo, and broken af in high elo?

KeiagaOct 7, 20191 votes

There's already been plenty of attempts, on Ryze specifically, where Riot tried to nerf his pro play capabilities and while keeping his "low" elo play intact.

Not that I even used the word "buff" in the first place, since I intentionally used the word "tweaks" in my first post. So try again

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20193 votes

What do you call "tweaks" that make a champion better? Do you call them "buffs"? [sg-ezreal]

KeiagaOct 7, 20191 votes

I never actually even made any implications that these champs should be better. A tweak could also be a nerf, or even just a change that could ultimately be seen as neutral. You're embarrassing yourself trying to find any point to argue about for no reason when you can't even follow along. lmao

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20192 votes

Let's keep pretending I'm the one "embarassing myself". Explain to me how a nerf could make Ryze better in lower elo?

KeiagaOct 7, 20191 votes

I'd be embarrassed if I was illiterate since you apparently aren't able to read the multiple times now that I said "I never even implied Ryze needs a nerf".

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20193 votes

You literally wrote:

is worthless

Why are you telling me: "I never even implied Ryze needs a nerf"

You're clearly implying Ryze needs a buff, not a nerf. Are you even capable of making a coherent argument?

KeiagaOct 7, 20191 votes

listing off champs and their rankings doesn't imply they need a buff or a nerf. Whether you want me to

{quoted}

Explain to me how a nerf could make Ryze better in lower elo?

or not.

In fact, besides my mention of how some UNNAMED mages MIGHT be able to use some UNNAMED tweaks, I didn't actually imply or talk about a buff or a nerf to any champion until you started demanding to understand

{quoted}

So you think Riot should buff a champ so that theyre playable in low elo, and broken af in high elo?

So not only are you unable to keep a straight line of thought and follow a simple conversation, you also dragged me down into a completely off-topic subject by putting words into my mouth that I did not say. Good job using those big 3-syllable words like coherent and capable though. It definitely stands out against your normal vocabulary but points for effort.

C104kOct 7, 20193 votes

Nothing will be done game has been unbalanced since after S4.

The Highest NoonOct 7, 20193 votes

Neeko and Zoe, land two abilities and win

Are they mages tho?

Meep ManOct 8, 20192 votes

I think its more one big simple issue: Whatever a Fighter/Tank can provide, a Mage can provide better?

So, what would you usually be picking a Fighter or Tank over Mage for? Tankiness and durability. And right now in the game the difference between a Mage dying and a Fighter/Tank dying is negligable. Fighters and Tanks, at the front line of a fight, usually last about 4-6 seconds. They are glorified meatshields at best, throwing out their abilities and hoping to the Rito gods that they don't die. The only Fighters that are worth using are Fighters that deal so much damage and have so much mobility that they almost act closer to Assassins than actual Fighters.

Meanwhile Mages not only have access to more defensive oriented item cool downs, but dont even need to be in "Danger Range" to interact in a fight. Range is incredibly powerful in League of Legends, as seen whenever a ranged champion becomes dominant in Top Lane. They usually just dominate and it feels miserable to play against. And unlike Dota 2, there are no turn rates to make kiting tactics weaker in League, PLUS most of the passive movement speed itemization is given to ADCs and even Mages. So ranged champions not only have more defensive cool down items to deal with melee champions (Fighters and Tanks) but also more passive mobility to help deal with them. Lets compare a list between the roles (and of course some hybrid champions could pull from both, like Ekko, Vladimir, Rumble, etc.)

Mage Defensive Items- item 3102 item 3157

ADC Defensive Items- item 3072 item 3026 item 3156 item 3046

Fighter Defensive Items- item 3812 item 3053

Tank Defensive Items- item 3194 item 3193 item 3143 item 3065 item 3190 item 3110

Assassin Defensive Item- item 3814

Of course, there is much overlap if you are an AD Fighter, or maybe a CQC ADC, or AP Fighter, or such. However, notice the difference between the ADC/Mage Defensive Items and the Fighter/Tank Defensive Items. The Fighter and Tank defensive items are mostly passive benefits rather than powerful limited time effects. Guardian's Angel and Zhonya's Hourglass are two incredibly powerful items that have been rebalanced constantly due to their power. Banshee's Veil and Phantom Dancer are also two not quite as strong, but rather powerful defensive items that are often underestimated in impact. People like to diss on Banshee's Veil, but you will love the item when someone like Zed or Zoe try to kill you in one combo. Meanwhile Fighter and Tank items have had more passive and underwhelming benefits that do much less than provide absolute mitigation. Even worse, most Tank and Fighter defensive items get entirely negated usually by True Damage and other anti-defense mechanics, like Grievous Wounds and such. Meanwhile there is little you can do when a Mage activates Zhonya's or has a spell shield, or an ADC simply has a free partial revive or a shield that passively activates.

And most importantly and once again, this is all compounded by the difference in WHERE these two different groups of classes are in fights. Mages and ADCs have at least comparable defensive items to Fighters and Tanks all while being miles further away from the frontline than both Fighters and Tanks. Mages have been in the highlight as of late because they provide crowd control equivalent to that of Tanks, but are supposed to be weaker due to decreased defenses and usually less mobility. However, as said, thats just not the case due to how quickly Fighters and Tanks die and the ignorable difference in the defensive items of Mages vs Fighters/Tanks.

TL;DR Mages are dominant because their main weakness when compared to Fighters/Tanks are null and void in this day and age. You pick Tanks and Fighters due to how much more durable they are, but thats negated when they die extremely quickly in fights nevertheless.