What can be done with Teemo?

ArnoldSchwarzens··10 votes·2,753 views

So they are buffing Teemo on the PBE:

Camouflage: Timer reduced to 1.5 seconds from 2. Attack speed changed to 10% + (5% × level) from 40%. NEW EFFECT: While in brush, Camouflage will only take 0.75 seconds to trigger and moving within the brush will not break the stealth.

Noxious Trap: Life span reduced to 5 minutes from 10 minutes. Slow now decays over the duration. Arm time increased to 1.5 seconds from 1 second. Cooldown reduced to 0.25 seconds from 1 second. NEW EFFECT: Shrooms now have 3 health and take 1 damage from ranged attacks and 2 damage from melee attacks. NEW EFFECT: Shrooms are now thrown rather than placed. Cast range increased to 300 / 600 / 900 from 230. NEW EFFECT: Shrooms will now bounce an additional 300 / 400 / 500 units if they are thrown onto another shroom. Shrooms can only bounce once, even if they land on a further shroom.

This inspired me to talk about Teemo because it needs to be done at some point. Let's look at his problems.

First of all he doesn't do what he is supposed to. He was intended as some kind of camouflage champion that lays down some traps and waits for you to step on them. He uses guerilla tactics, baits you into minefields and hit-and-runs away. What he actually is, is a shroombot. The role of the shroom as an actual trap is still there but it is more oftenly used as a tool to control the map and win fights before they even start. Instead of sitting somwhere stealthed and using the shrooms to be a part of his ambush he basically just buys CDR and AP items, running around the map and laying down shrooms just to make people walk into them. Outside of this he is pretty much worthless, especially when you look at the competitive scene and Hai's Teemo.

The Q of him is a 2.5 second long blind which is a really flawed mechanic in itself. While it does not help him in a lot of matchups and makes it useless against everything that does not auto, it also allows no counterplay at all for autohitting champions. When he catches an enemy marksman all they can do is run until the blind is over because all their damage is negated. It is like what Kassadin's and Leblanc's Silences used to do with mages.

His W is supposed to support his hit-and-run fantasy and to get him out of sticky situations but it does a bad job at doing that. While it does come in handy it is not able to outrun dashes or burst combos. When you look at marksmen for example ( which work pretty similar to Teemo, both auto and kite a lot ) they have tools to keep enemies at a distance while also being save in a teamfight. Sivir has her spellshield, Ashe has her CC, Lucian and Vayne have their dashes and Kog'Maw, Twitch an Caitlyn have high ranges while Draven has just raw damage and dravenness. This allows those champions to counter a lot of burstmages and assassins or basically anything that wants to focus them in a fight. They can dodge skillshots with dashes, they stay safe in the back with their range or just straight out murder everything that comes close ( in case of Draven ). A movespeed buff alone can't do anything of the things mentioned above and that, combined with Teemos relatively short range dooms him to die in a teamfight when he comes as close as his autohit and q range or to stay back and be useless until the fight is basically over just to pick up some kills at the end of it. This way he is doomed to be the shroombot that we all grew to hate because that is all he can do to be effective ( see above ).

So how do we fix that?

While the buffs of the PBE made me really happy because I thought Riot was fine with him being nothing more but a meme and the mascot of LoL that is probably not going to be fixing him. The problem of his shrooms being global damage and vision instead of an actual trap is still there aswell as him being really bad at teamfighting. So here are some of my thoughts.

Change his Q from a blinding dart into a blinding grenade ( like Corki's Q ). Instead of blinding the enemy it would reduce their vision ( like Noc's ult, Graves' W, Tham's W on enemy champion ). This would make it useful against any kind of champion instead of useless against anything that does not auto and leaving no counterplay to everything that does auto. It would also give him some more survivability against burst, assasination and in teamfights. It also is a pretty unused mechanic that would make this spell pretty unique from other champions.

Make his Passive give him some extra MS when he destealths. Since this is about camping for an enemy it does not have much effect since he can just dash or jump away when Teemo destealths near him, making it's attack speed bonus useless. This would give Teemo more space to auto and Q enemies when he comes out of his passive.

Make his W a dash that triggers his passive rather than a flat movespeed buff. This would give him the dash he needs ( see above ).

No changes to his E.

Make his shrooms only work in a ( fairly large ) radius around Teemo that scales with ability level. This would encourage him more to lay traps and use it as a reactive ability ( Shroom pops, Teemo will come out of stealth nearby to finish the job ) instead of putting them everywhere and make him a global nuisance like he is right now ( see above ).

On top of that add all the changes from the PBE.

So what would this Teemo look like?

He would be centered about camouflaging and baiting rather than shroomspamming. There would be a lot of things you could do with his kit. He would excel at splitpushing because when people would try to collapse on him while he does, he has his shrooms, his dashes, his trap-ability, his stealth and his hit-and-run tactics to get out of those situations and maybe even get a kill while doing so, allowing his team to do something elsewhere. Because of his shrooms and his improved Q he would also be really good againt engage combs because he will easily shut them down with his vision reduction and minefields. There would also be enough counterplay to it. It will be difficult for him to stand against poke combs that stay out of his shroomed area and shut down his siege. He would also be immobile since he is bound to where he planted his minefield. By making calls outside of his shroomfield a coordinated team could isolate him from his teammates and force a 4v5.

I love to see some criticism of yours because that is the first time I thought of some kind of rework and I'd love to see people's opinions on that. I'm also apologizing for grammatical or spelling errors, English is not my native tongue.

20 Comments

Llanite4 votes

You get a lot of wrong ideas about teemo.

  1. His q is 0.8 ap nuke, which is current the s3cond highest point and click in the gam3. Even if one does not aa, it hurts a lot.
  2. He is not meant to create a minefield, he drops trap and ambush, which is why it's less effective once people start moving in 5.
  3. His w if maxed will outrun most dashes, even riven triple q, I see a lot of people prefer to level q or e for dmg and complain his w being weak, which is not always the case.
  4. You seem to invest into the idea that teemo is a sustain fighter which is quite wrong. He is supposed to snipe people who is slowed by the shroom then retreat, which is why ALL pros build him full AP without CDR, he's meant to burst then run, not hanging around shooting dart. If you try this, you'll see his kit make perfect sense.
  5. Your suggestion would destroy his theme. He is a trapper, not a trickster, who should focus on preparing the field and wait, not randomly go invisible and counterattack.
Hangsterr2 votes

BUFF so OP

Nukronic2 votes

This "buff" is really a nerf. OPEN UR EYES PPL RIOT IS ILUMINOTTER THEY ARE GUTTING TEEMO AGAIN SOMETHING MUST BE DONE SAVE THE YORDLES

Methilicious2 votes

yea i see the buffs. i am curious to try it and play my cute lil teemo Teemo >^.^<. Your idea seems interesting, but i do still see a lot of high elo (Diamond & Platinum) use teemo top lane in them rank drafts they have on client. They seem to do pretty good with what he has and win lanes. Guess it depends on how you want to play him and who you are up against in lane.

ArnoldSchwarzens2 votes

I surely think that he has the potential to be good but I think that this potential is set at the wrong places. Almost every pro, most notably Hai, play him on full AP/CDR ( IF they actually play him ) without investing in attack speed and play as shroombot. I don't think that this is a healthy and balancable playstyle.

Methilicious1 votes

yea your right, Either way if they tweak him or not i will still love the lil guy.

jmaishere2 votes

Lets face it, Riot's "buffs to Teemo is a nerf on his damage, while it certainly buffs his survivability in running away or with ambushing people, the nerf on the shroom timer is an enormous cut to his damage potential. Typically when I play teemo, the shrooms are sometimes set up in locations to deal damage, and other times in locations to function as wards or ambush points. Since I usually run teleport, the shrooms make it possible for me to relocate around the map for ambushes. You say that oh, teemo is supposed to be an assassin, but face it, with teemo, there's no way to cleanly kill someone by running in and shooting them down because teemo will basically die in team fights, or if he one v one most other champions. So how does he get around that? By playing carefully and creating a tactical advantage with the shrooms instead.

Catastrop1 votes

I just want that new passive. I don't care for the rest, however I do like your ideas about the blinding grenade, dash and shroom idea. One question though, will they like Heimer's turrets? They arm themselves when he's in the radius? Because that would be cool.

ArnoldSchwarzens1 votes

Basically like that. If shrooms would be outside of the radius, they would simply just not explode if people walk over them.

Mathbalnase1 votes

I disagree with much of your premise in that I am far from convinced that the PBE changes are buffs. I do, however, agree that Teemo needs extensive work to be both healthy and viable (and believe that he is currently neither).

Some of the changes that I would favor:

I like the blind change (and have suggested similar before), but think that sticking to mostly single-target effects better fits Teemo's theme. I think Teemo's innate would better serve as the new home of (modified version of his current E), while a (relatively weak) stealth mechanic (for instance, temporary Eve-style) might find a fitting home on his E (along with some other changes so that it's not over-burdened by the addition) That frees up his E for something interesting and engaging, preferably that replaces the current function of his post-stealth buff (short duration dps boost)

I would avoid giving his shrooms a 'usable radius' around Teemo, preserving his ability to set up traps for his allies to take advantage of, but would try to find a way to still incentivize their use as ambush tools (both in terms of enabling ambushes by Teemo and his team and confounding ambushes by his opponents). For instance, shifting their damage completely to %currentHP removes their ability to execute unwary opponents, alternatively (or additionally) reducing their damage in favour of adding a resist shred would encourage follow-ups I would trade shroom stealth for shroom (in)destructibility, bringing them in line with the majority of similar tools held by other champions. I would remove their passive vision, but increase the duration of their vision on detonation (both in radius of effect and on affected champions)

Avios11 votes

As a teemo main, I like the changes, but the Q changes im not so sure. I mean, I like it quite a bit, but it just doesn't seem right being a Grenade like corki. I believe that it should be what it is, but it should reduce the vision and damage output instead of blind (except blinding helps vs marksman and devourer)

ChaosThief1 votes

3/4/5 teemos*

on a more serious note, it looks like great changes. Early game he can't just camp in a spot with E first and instantly appear from stealth proceeding to chunk your health with auto attacks for the attack speed buff, he can move in bushes while stealthed (so you don't instantly die if you try to pull the "stand still and let them pass" tactic and they know you're there) and the shrooms are much easier to deal with (and not immortal) while being able to assist in team fights or place shrooms from a safe distance.

Overall, I think it's a rather good set of changes.

ArnoldSchwarzens1 votes

Also I think that it's debatable if this is a nerf or not. They really nerfed his shrooms but also really buffed his autohits. I mean 100% attackspeed when standing in a bush at lvl 18 is a lot, even though they straight out halfed the duration of shrooms. I like the direction he is heading though.

HeadHonchkrow1 votes

You can torture the others

Opthimmus1 votes

Teemo´s E needs to Works with item 3151 .

Lugg1 votes

Doesn't it work with it if he also hasitem 3116 ?

Llanite1 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't it work with it if he also hasitem 3116 ?

His E works with neither.

Lugg1 votes

That sucks. It does magic damage, why wouldn't Riot let that work?

Llanite1 votes

{quoted}

That sucks. It does magic damage, why wouldn't Riot let that work?

Because it's an AA and already proc-ed on-hit. item 3153 item 3115 item 3071

There is no ability that can proc both on-hit and on-spell.

Lugg1 votes

True, but I thought it would proc the on spell instead. Interesting.

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