Ad really has way too much of an advantage when it comes to jungle clear speeds

deadlychuck·Aug 5, 2017·18 votes·797 views

It's really probably one of the most out of hand balance disparities in the game tbh.

And it's not like they can't close the gap, it's been far smaller in the past, there has always been an advantage for AD champions in the jungle due to how the items and stats are designed, but it's not like you're really sacrificing anything in order to be 1-3 levels ahead of the enemy jungle. You're just winning the primary stat lottery.

28 Comments

EedatAug 5, 201713 votes

Elise Gragas Ivern all have great clears and are not AD. A lot of tanks have decent clears now too

deadlychuckAug 6, 20175 votes

There's a big difference between giving select champions clearing tools

and fixing the problem by adjusting AD instead

I'd rather have the gap closed as a general rule, rather than creating a white list of champions which aren't AD, while simply being AD is singly enough.

EedatAug 6, 20177 votes

So insanely wrong that it hurts. Being AD does not give you a good clear. I main Jungle MonkeyKing who has an absolutely horrendous clear. Being AD does not default you to having a great clear

ParoeAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So insanely wrong that it hurts. Being AD does not give you a good clear. I main Jungle who has an absolutely horrendous clear. Being AD does not default you to having a great clear

Wukong is a single target champion who is designed to lane, not jungle. Jungle buffs for him would be a splash on his Q.

This being said, AP champions often have a LOT longer cooldowns with lower bases than AD champions, especially junglers. It hurts them a lot because whats important in the current jungle is SPAMMABLE AOE. You want to be able to use an AoE ability every 4~5 seconds. AP junglers also have less HP/resistances for the most part.

Flawless FetusAug 6, 20172 votes

The bad ap "junglers" are designed to lane. Ap junglers clear just fine. Elise, gragas, ivern, Diana, arguably Mundo, etc. They all have great clears. Tf and Annie are, obviously, going to have a hard time. Lol.

ParoeAug 6, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FBP53GE5,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-06T02:55:28.300+0000)

The bad ap "junglers" are designed to lane. Ap junglers clear just fine. Elise, gragas, ivern, Diana, arguably Mundo, etc. They all have great clears. Tf and Annie are, obviously, going to have a hard time. Lol.

Fiddlesticks Karma Kassadin Mordekaiser Ryze AP champions have low clear speeds because their cooldowns and base damage are fairly low compared to their AD counterparts.

Chembaron YamadaAug 6, 20173 votes

Of these champions, just fiddlesticks is a jungler. That's exactly the same like with Wukong.

Karma Designed as mid and support, primarily balanced around support. Kassadin Solo laner. Mordekaiser Designed as duo laner in bot. Will probably get reworked as a solo laner (top). Ryze Solo laner (mid and top).

So if Wukong is not relevant because he is a laner, why do you bring these up?

Kingslayer RivenAug 7, 20171 votes

Mordekaiser's jungle clear is exceptionally healthy and quite quick once you get a few points in your abilities. His base AD is also the highest in the game. Morde is a terrible jungler because of his lackluster ganks, but his clear rivals lee sin's once he hits level 4-5 IMO.

Sun Wu RyuumokuAug 6, 20171 votes

Wukong is a single target champion who is designed to lane, not jungle.

Fun fact :

Nimbus : hit 3 ennemy
Decoy : deal damage in AOA

XxxLumberJackxxXAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Wukong is a single target champion who is designed to lane, not jungle. Jungle buffs for him would be a splash on his Q.

This being said, AP champions often have a LOT longer cooldowns with lower bases than AD champions, especially junglers. It hurts them a lot because whats important in the current jungle is SPAMMABLE AOE. You want to be able to use an AoE ability every 4~5 seconds. AP junglers also have less HP/resistances for the most part.

Id make his passive work on jungle monsters... Health is the issue not speed

deadlychuckAug 6, 20172 votes

Not every AD champion is going to have a perfect kit for clearing, but the amount of compensation for clearing is far lower on AD champions. MasterYi doesn't have much more for clearing than Wu, but has no issues powering through the jungle.

nice tableAug 6, 20171 votes

eh wukongs E does about 80~ damage to 3 monsters at rank 1 while yi's Q does 170~ to 5 monsters and yi actually has a passive

AirKingNeoAug 6, 20173 votes

Ivern doesn't damage jungle monsters.

EedatAug 6, 20174 votes

What does that have to do with clear speeds exactly?

AirKingNeoAug 6, 20174 votes

It makes it unique to other junglers. He wouldn't be relevant in the argument that jungle monsters should have less MR or something.

koshkyraAug 6, 20173 votes

come on, lets not bring ivern into this

Funkin DunkinAug 6, 20171 votes

Diana

The DeckownerAug 6, 20175 votes

Just wanna point out that Nidalee exist.

kendraskAug 5, 20173 votes

I totally agree. For example Fiddlesticks. He takes years to clear the jungle, other AD junglers can gank multiple times while AP Fiddle is still trying to catch up the levels.

commit an heroAug 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I totally agree. For example Fiddlesticks. He takes years to clear the jungle, other AD junglers can gank multiple times while AP Fiddle is still trying to catch up the levels.

Fiddlesticks is a problem within himself. Like someone else said Elise, Gragas and Ivern all have good clear speeds and are AP.

yoshi2790Aug 6, 20171 votes

Ivern doesn't count.

AP Keanu ReavesAug 5, 20172 votes

Counting Ivern? He doesn't even really clear.

deadlychuckAug 6, 20171 votes

I'm speaking in general terms, which is normally handled through itemization.

Ivern and other non-AD champions generally exist in a white list, of those which have been given tools to assist in jungle clearing, and those who haven't.

PrinceOfStormsAug 6, 20172 votes

AD just has too much of an advantage in general.

ShablagooAug 6, 20172 votes

Weird cuz mao and cho are both ap based champions and have great clear speeds. Gragas and Elise also have great clear speed too, the only ap champion that might have trouble is maybe fiddles I think. Also more out of hand balance disparities cmon, how can you blatantly bs about that no ap champions that doesnt main jg has that much trouble clearing. I main rengar and even though he is ad he actually has alittle trouble clear 1-4, that is if not done properly you actually have to kite the jg camps too. Also if ap was that bad I dont think elise would be one of the top jg's this whole season.