It's honestly retarded that Veigar can't have a stun, Kassadin can't have mobility, and Ryze can't have targeted skills, but this champion can have a gapcloser that leaps from Earth to Mars with an UNDO BUTTON.
Can you at least give her W a mana cost for jumping back to her W platform? She really needs a significant punishment if she fucks up like almost every other champion.
JFRANKSTA26 votesgive zed an energy cost to switch places with his shadows
Fırewall18 votesgive zed an energy cost to switch places with his shadows
Zed is a whole new offender. But he's theorically fine. All he can do is 100% pinpoint kill someone, and even then, items prevent that from happening. Not the mention the high energy cost on his kit if he doesn't dual-hit you with abilities. And he has like, 3 times less the mobility LB has.
TenSlashTen28 votesZed has the highest energy refund in the game.
You're full of shit if you think he has energy costs that mean anything. Go play shen or akali or even kennen where you get 1-3 spells in a fight and then wait 3-6 seconds for your next spell.
he has a 1k range gap closer. "less mobility" you're full of shit.
Rubbery Skrub2 votes...um Shen yes, but I rarely have energy problems with Kennen, and neither with Akali unless I'm not detonating the q marks
Wydiwyg19 votesyou're full of shit.
Yeah..right. Would you like fries to your salt, sir?
TonyTonyMordecai7 votesOr maybe a few pretzels?
Daen4 votesZed's energy refund mechanic relies on either standing in the middle of a minion wave or hitting multiple skillshots from different angles simultaneously. When played properly Akali has almost zero energy costs other than Twilight Shroud, and by design that ability gives her some breathing time.
Zed can restore a maximum of 80 energy, provided he lands every single mimicked ability. It costs him anywhere between 120-165 energy to do so, meaning his energy return mechanic costs him a total of 40-65 energy assuming his enemy can't dodge skillshots.
Akali, on the other hand, refunds 40 energy for each 60 energy Q cast if she detonates the mark. When played properly this means she can restore 80 energy when double detonating her marks, and when accounting for time between the marks this costs her a total of -20-0 energy. She actually restores more energy than required to cast if she double procs her detonation before level 5 of her Q.
Akali's energy regen mechanic costs 60-65 less energy than Zed's, provided each champion is played perfectly and other abilities aren't included. Hers is also on a 4-6 second cooldown, whereas Zed's is at 14-18 seconds and requires the majority of his kit.
I'm fine with people ragging on Zed, but not when it's straight up misguided.
TenSlashTen5 votesIts not misguided do you even play akali to know how bad she is right now?
You realize her E procing Q was the only reason she was viable in the late late game when people just spammed red trinkets. Ever since that removal I've had at least 2-3 kills any time I play her walk off with enough health that a Q being procced by E was a killing blow.
Her energy being refunded was what let you Q again after the E procing the first Q. Thus securing a kill.
Now it doesn't. So she runs out of energy has to wait. You just spam Q and R into people mindlessly now and hope your lichbane+deathcap damage is enough. If its not you die. Went back to not even bothering trying to play her recently even into match ups she's supposed to win I still have trouble and that says alot becuase I used to play a lot of pre rework kat and akali top/mid in season 1/2.
Don't tell me I'm misguided when you don't have a single clue what you're spouting.
Daen5 votesEverything you're mentioning here about the E not proccing Q is related to quality of life for the champion, not energy refund mechanics. I agree with you, it's really tough to play Akali now that she can't proc Q with Crescent Slash. That change made me a very sad panda because Akali is one of my favorite champions, and I loved the fact they allowed Crescent Slash to detonate her mark in the first place. :/
Regardless of that detonate mechanic being removed, however, the energy refund numbers still stand. If able to autoattack your target while they have a mark, Akali's potential for energy refund is greater than Zed's and requires significantly less up-front energy investment.
Akali
Total energy refund over 28 seconds: 280
Zed
Total energy refund over 28 seconds: 240
LegitBacon661 votesBAsically Zed will do less damage in the 28 seconds.
Daen2 votesOh absolutely. Zed is a true assassin, his kit revolves around dropping everything on a single target then having a relatively long period of minor utility (poke, AoE). Akali, on the other hand, provides sustained burst. She does less immediate damage than Zed, but over the long term she will dramatically outdamage him.
Raid Boss Morde1 votesJust for fun, can you calculate Kennen and Shen's Energy like this?
Daen1 votesKennen and Shen are a bit more complex when considering energy regeneration mechanics, since they include autoattacks as part of this calculation. They also fill different roles; Akali and Zed are assassins, whereas Kennen is an AoE teamfighter and Shen is a tank/bruiser.
Kennen restores a percentage of his energy consistently while using spells (correctly) due to his Mark of the Assassin functionality, and he's encouraged to space them out over a longer period of time.
Shen has a guaranteed return of at least 30 energy every 9 seconds if he can get an autoattack in, and it goes up every time he autoattacks. His base refund mechanic is actually the best in the game, and even Taunt's is really good if you can get maximum effectiveness out of it. If you hit two enemies you refund 80% of the cost, and if you hit 3 it's a net gain of 20 energy.
AetherKingdom1 votesShen has the highest energy refund in the game, actually.
TenSlashTen2 votesNah I'm talking about in a straight up fight Unless shen taunts 2+ people he can't do anything even with the 30%+ cdr to spam taunt he just runs out of energy.
These noobsthink I mean csing. In which case. Zed still out classes everyone by far rofl.
AetherKingdom2 votesShen still has the highest refund
ajwf4 votesTheoretically, yes. In practice? Absolutely not. His kit is such that he can't even go through his rotation if his E doesn't land. Miss the taunt in a team fight and you're so screwed because you no longer can shield, your Q does no meaningful damage and everyone still has full attack power to hit you with while you just dived into their team.
Gladius Iuris1 votesI disagree. But, if Zed were to have a SECOND switch, then yes, make the second one cost energy.
Cloud27312 votesAgreed OP. And while they're at it give Nidalee some mana costs in cougar form.
Dunkrius2g2 votesGive the Kassadin treatment. Every usage, mana costs doubles or triples.
COST: 50 / 100 / 200 / 400 / 800 MANA .... this is for double
COST: 30/ 90 / 270 / 710 / 2130 MANA ..... this is for triple
I think double will be perfect. Or if you can reduce 50% for double that will be perfect for her.
The Bíg Ticket12 votesShe is fine...doesn't really need nerfs. She is super strong in lane but its justified with her bad lategame. She has had an incredibly low winrate for ages because its very hard for her to win games, no matter if she has 1 or 25 kills. Learn to adjust your playstyle when the enemy has a Leblanc.
MysticFlameHaze2 votesexactly she falls off so badly because she has to get in close if someone has snare such as nautilus she cannot jump back or even a silence where as cho gath is played more now, annie is always in a lot of games she is not hard to stop and then because this is the "tank meta" tanks destroy her because the only thing you'd actually build against tanks as lb is void staff
DomainSpecific5 votesI would rather she gets reduced dmg when Wing to minions. or maybe even making enhanced W not dealing any damage to minions.
If her mobility is her defining feature, then she shouldn't be able to farm minions so easily.
Abyssphere10 votesI would rather she gets reduced dmg when Wing to minions. or maybe even making enhanced W not dealing any damage to minions.
If her mobility is her defining feature, then she shouldn't be able to farm minions so easily.
You really think she shouldn't be allowed to burn her ultimate to clear a wave?
lB2kGRlc8y2 votesOne of the lowest CD ultimates in the game, without mana cost, and the most variety in what it can do, burning this doesn't seem like a huge deal.
Abyssphere2 votesOne of the lowest CD ultimates in the game, without mana cost, and the most variety in what it can do, burning this doesn't seem like a huge deal.
Its CD might be lower than most but it's still a significant cooldown to burn. LeBlanc doesn't assassinate people without her R unless she's something like 25-0; using her ult to clear a single wave means she can't assassinate someone for up to 40 seconds and also has one of her escapes burnt (most likely both, if she uses R to waveclear she'll have used her W as well), meaning she's easy picking for the enemy mid and is effectively useless for the better part of a minute. How losing all of that for the sake of clearing a wave quicker isn't a fair trade off is beyond me.
LeBlanc has poor clear as it is and no matter how much people will have you believe she has immense waveclear, she really doesn't. She has one basic ability that can waveclear (which is also her main harass) and her ultimate for desperate situations. Someone who suggests reducing the damage her W/WR do to minions is suggesting she be completely unable to clear a wave.
There are frustrating aspects to LeBlanc's kit that if changed, might make her feel less bad to play against. Her waveclear however is not the right thing to target. You are making a champion that is arguably not overpowered (just annoying) weaker without actually making her feel at all better to play against, which is exactly what you don't want to do. You would complain about her again the second she became strong, because you took the lazy route (this is what will happen if Akali is ever powerful again, because her nerfs were lazy as hell and did nothing to give her more counterplay).
PP Naruto3 votesI would rather she gets reduced dmg when Wing to minions. or maybe even making enhanced W not dealing any damage to minions.
If her mobility is her defining feature, then she shouldn't be able to farm minions so easily.
LOL......she sucks at cs'ing UNLESS you make the compromise to blow your mana on minions thus meaning you're restricting yourself from attacking opponent "as much"
Sugar Momma5 votesI think the biggest issue is her W's cooldown at later levels. With just 25% CDR it's on a 7.5 sec cd at max rank, meaning Leblanc (without her ultimate) is without a dash for only 3.5 seconds. With 40% CDR? Only 2 seconds.
MysticFlameHaze2 votesit stays on cooldown till you jump back. so not all the time will the time be the same. she could use the W to get in E then Q wait for the chain to go off then only after she would jump back and it starts the cooldown.
TenSlashTen3 votesIt stays on CD until you return. its also her only real activator for her Q. Her kit makes complete sense when you actually look at it. It's just so abusable simply because most people are shit at positioning in moba's so it feels way too oppressive to a lot of players. I've never once said leblanc was broken or anything like that. Release sure it was an issue. But that was imbalanced not broken. Completely different. Imbalanced is just number nerfs. broken is something at a coding and design board issue. For example, rengar Q, not supposed to crit. Has been critting since his release. it still Crits. Broken.
Learn what the words you are using mean before you throw them around.
Imbalanced is NOT and never will be BROKEN they are completely different things. However it is possible for a champion or anything to be imbalanced AND broken.
Leblanc is not broken. Nor is she imbalanced. It just feels that way because mobility creep is all you've seen for so long you don't actually know how hard tanks shit on assassins like leblanc to the point where picking them was pointless in season 1/season 2 so leblanc wasn't really that great.
You can blame riot for nerfing tank items.
Penguin Eclipse4 votesHer mana cost on W should be lowered on the initial jump, but to reactivate her jump she should have a mana cost.
LeBlanc doesn't need straight nerfs. She needs balancing. Nerfing with compensation buffing.
Sinister Anubis3 votesShes already mana hungry and can't last hit with her auto attacks for nothing..... If she wasn't so mana hungry i'd build full dmg but i have to buy atleast one mana regen item
Father Cthulhu6 votesOh, so you have to do what every other mage has to do? What a novel idea.
MysticFlameHaze1 votesnot true, some mages have higher attack speed or better aa animations making it easier than others. then you also have oriana's passive and ziggs passive.
Father Cthulhu3 votesTalking about buying a mana regen item, not cs'ing. I'll admit, LB is hard to CS with, but building mana regen is standard for almost every mage.
incognito443 votesGoing by that logic - let's give a mana bar to every champion who doesn't use it, cause it's unfair that they can stay in lane forever...
Sinlaire6 votespeople run out of health too you know
Solidair33 votesShe does get punished for fucking up, she's squishy and dies instantly.
She's a strong laner, but outside of picking after lane, she ain't got shit.
She has a strength. like all assassins. And besides, Riot has stated they like what she does right now, she is an important mid laner that keeps others in check without being overbearing (on a broad scale, not as a laner. There is a reason her winrate isn't that great)
The Ecdysiast3 votesNo. She doesn't need anything else done to her. DFG was removed because she wasn't having to use the W for damage. Considering what that did to so many other champions, I don't want them thinking that LB is op so Mordekaiser (and just for the joke, Irelia) needs more nerfs.
Leu073 votesIMO that's a dreadful idea.
DrCyanide2 votesIF she needs that kind of change (and I'm not sure she does), would it be fair for her return to also deal damage? Distort and recall in place for two hits on a minion wave instead of one? Give up the mobility for damage? Obviously there would be a lot of number tweaking if this happened (not to mention Distort taking up a lot more of her power budget).
ChaoticPinecone2 votesdid you watch Fenix play Ahri vs XiaoWeiXiao's Leblanc? THAT is how you punish a leblanc. its not a blink - its a dash. you can still hit skillshot CCs when she jumps toward you (now that she doesnt have that pesky silence) and it stops the damage
kassadin's lategame mobility was buffed with the ult changes. cant jump as far, but you can use it more often. this also buffs his damage.
Veigars changes make me angry though.
Apollocliptic1 votesIs that for real? I've often played Orianna vs LB, and though I don't think she is invincible, I tried a few times to position myself to aim my Q at her when I know she will attack, and use E to hit her on the way back, but I don't think it's ever worked, she appears "to me anyway" to blink passed the slow moving ball, avoiding both the outgoing and incoming damage. Ahri's collision area is better, and though I have not seen the match, it would be reasonable to assume that LB was hit in brief periods inbetween, not "while dashing" whereas oriannas attack is slow so it's easier to completely avoid by "blinking" passed it in one direction, and passed it on the return.
As I said, i could be wrong, just wanted to check, because I gave up on the tactic, but if it "Should" work maybe I just didn't notice the damage or did something else wrong. these days if I know she used W on a minion wave, I place the ball on her return pad and hit her with AA's. If you position right, like I said, you should be able to shield yourself, causing her to take damage by the returning ball, and if you're right, she should take damage if she returns to her pad or stays put. But like i've said, it's never worked before, so I just W her when she returns to the pad.
On a side note, I agree with the OP, a reduced mana cost for using W a second time sounds fair, in theory, equally, a much bigger nerf would be a drain on mana while she is away from her W pad, so the longer she stays in her second location, the more mana she loses. That has a lot of negatives on her, while the OP is more subtle
ChaoticPinecone2 votesthe first cast is a dash, the second cast is a blink. you can hit her during the first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=951&v=mkY_tkUeD4c
if you watch at 15:48 or so, Fenix charms XiaoWeiXiao mid animation of the dash. the damage of the dash doesnt go through to ahri or any of the minions.
EDIT - he charms her again at around 17:45 at the end of the dash. that time, the damage went through before the charm landed.
EDIT 2 - IWillDominate does it again at 37:40 with gragas' body slam for no damage.
CubedJustice2 votesHow about Leblanc's mana costs are refunded when she goes back to her Distortion? You know, reversing what she just did.
AbsoluteSadman2 votesCalled it, as soon as ryze gets skillshots hes gonna be a tool in fighting against anything the forums dosent like.
21 Hook Street2 votesQuick note, can they update her chain mechanics to the way they did fiddle, karma, or anyone else where the chain is refreshed every .25 seconds rather than every second. Her chain can be from her starting spot to you after a flash if timed right and then you get stunned. It seems a little ridiculous. Also to the topic above me and my friends thing she should have more mana cost or higher cdr on her spells. she is an assassin who's main strategy is to burst one person down. However as she stands, she can burst down almost the entire team, without having any punishment for it. Just my opinion.
YossarianSensei2 votesLeBlanc is already so weak lmao
Just because a champ is annoying doesn't mean it's good
wop1 votesIt is actually a pretty unforgiving skill at times. When you are chasing, you may accidentally return to your platform on accident, or go to the wrong platform or something like that. And some champs like 
have similar "no risk" escapes, but I don't really think any of the skills mentioned is actually no risk.
LittleBlast4 votesYasuo doesnt have the best of escapes, he needs minions in the exact right spot to escape with E