ADCs dont need to be a late game class

HàrrowR·Jul 6, 2018·18 votes·7,881 views

I mean the biggest problem with adcs right now is that those reliant on crit have simply too expensive builds and get shut down easily early,this price somehow makes up for the amount of damage provided if you get to your items..

But this system doesnt provide the most important thing in this video game,fun. I know most board members hate adcs and their misery is their fun,but i honestly cant figure why not just lower the stats on ADC items to make them more streamlined through out the game,not too weak early not too strong late game,for instance

Infinity edge gets damage reduced to 55,but price lowered to 2900,shiv and rfc damage get reduced,or their crit,and so does their price,there is no real reason for adcs to be a late game class except if the devs want them to be,id rather them be balanced then have only two states of super weak or super strong

Anyone else?

40 Comments

woodvsmurphJul 6, 201811 votes

I mean that's exactly the type of thing I suggested with adc update(s) we just had. Make their items come online sooner, but give less stats overall. So they get a smoother power curve with a lower late game power advantage. But nope. Despite them already owning late game (5+ items), riot doubled down on their late game advantage and created an early game snowball meta. And then people wonder why crit adc's with no mobility or escape tools do so poorly. Gee... a meta entirely suited against them makes them feel unviable and bad. But if you get to their power spike... they wreck face. Buff their early/mid game to let them reach late more consistently and what's going to happen? They'll become far too op late and get nerfed or get their items nerfed.

Another way to look at it. Most champs have a power rating that varies (usually increasing or decreasing) from 3-8 on a 1-10 scale throughout the game. But crit adc's are more like a 2 scaling into a 10. Instead of have such a stupidly steep power curve like that (which is reinforced by items)... why not give them a more reasonable power curve of something like 3-8 throughout the game? That's still a steep curve. It still gives them weaker early game than non-crit champs, but it makes them playable. And it also makes it possible to play AGAINST them come late game. But I guess making adc items reasonable just isn't a good idea? Giving them a power curve that would make them playable in an early game meta while not leaving them untouchable in a late game meta just isn't reasonable?

HàrrowRJul 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I mean that's exactly the type of thing I suggested with adc update(s) we just had. Make their items come online sooner, but give less stats overall. So they get a smoother power curve with a lower late game power advantage. But nope. Despite them already owning late game (5+ items), riot doubled down on their late game advantage and created an early game snowball meta. And then people wonder why crit adc's with no mobility or escape tools do so poorly. Gee... a meta entirely suited against them makes them feel unviable and bad. But if you get to their power spike... they wreck face. Buff their early/mid game to let them reach late more consistently and what's going to happen? They'll become far too op late and get nerfed or get their items nerfed.

Another way to look at it. Most champs have a power rating that varies (usually increasing or decreasing) from 3-8 on a 1-10 scale throughout the game. But crit adc's are more like a 2 scaling into a 10. Instead of have such a stupidly steep power curve like that (which is reinforced by items)... why not give them a more reasonable power curve of something like 3-8 throughout the game? That's still a steep curve. It still gives them weaker early game than non-crit champs, but it makes them playable. And it also makes it possible to play AGAINST them come late game. But I guess making adc items reasonable just isn't a good idea? Giving them a power curve that would make them playable in an early game meta while not leaving them untouchable in a late game meta just isn't reasonable?

I guess its too much to ask,you just have to play Kai Sa who has a strong early game and a disgusting late game

Sp33d Zer0Jul 7, 20182 votes

I personally like the fact that crit based ADCs have that dedicated phase to close out.

The thing is that I think that rageblade ADCs need to be weaker late for how strong they are early. There needs to be a real impactful trade off for taking a smoother power curve.

It just makes it so that ADCs (much like bruisers) can be split up into actual categories instead of just "marksman" and be given specific strengths related to that.

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F7qOFKRr,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-07T08:42:39.249+0000)

I personally like the fact that crit based ADCs have that dedicated phase to close out.

The thing is that I think that rageblade ADCs need to be weaker late for how strong they are early. There needs to be a real impactful trade off for taking a smoother power curve.

It just makes it so that ADCs (much like bruisers) can be split up into actual categories instead of just "marksman" and be given specific strengths related to that.

As a biased adc main i dont want any of them nerfed but your point is the exact one i have,why play crit adc,struggle early and mid game just to hope to reach late game and be able to do something when you can play Kai Sa and just be strong at every point of the game,or Varus,Mf,Jhin etc

Sp33d Zer0Jul 7, 20181 votes

I'm an ADC main as well. That's why I want the role to be diverse. Right now if you want to play early and fall off you have to play something like Ezreal or Draven.

woodvsmurphJul 8, 20181 votes

Agreed that there does need to be a payoff for going a more scaling build. But the thing is... they scale perhaps a bit too well and take too long to come online. All I'm suggesting is... drop the scaling to a more reasonable level where other scaling champs are comparable... and in turn make their weaker phases of the game (early, early-mid game) more competitive. Not equal to other champs... but not garbage/unviable.

And yes... rageblade builds' scaling needs to be reduced.

ZephyrDrakeJul 6, 20188 votes

So make them even weaker so they have a marginally better mid game?Crit ADCs are meant to be late game champions. You want early game ADCs? Look at Lucian, Ezreal, Draven and MF

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So make them even weaker so they have a marginally better mid game?Crit ADCs are meant to be late game champions. You want early game ADCs? Look at Lucian, Ezreal, Draven and MF

I do play those champs,i actually dont prefer crit adcs at all,im just kinda bewildered with the logic that in a meta where your average game ends with you having 3 items, riot pushes crit adcs into an even later power spike,its not fun playing them and dying to lucian,draven,kai sa and others just to maybe be a bit more usefull late game,when youre already down 3 inhibs

ZephyrDrakeJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I do play those champs,i actually dont prefer crit adcs at all,im just kinda bewildered with the logic that in a meta where your average game ends with you having 3 items, riot pushes crit adcs into an even later power spike,its not fun playing them and dying to lucian,draven,kai sa and others just to maybe be a bit more usefull late game,when youre already down 3 inhibs

so should we also nerf mage itemization so that late game mages can come online sooner? or any late game champions for that matter? this logic of yours is even more strange and senseless than Riot's. Game is too snowbally right now, you reduce that and you get games that aren't over in the laning phase and gives time to late game champions to scale to the late game. Making everything be early to mid game won't help the game in the slightest

koshkyraJul 7, 20184 votes

ADCs should be for late game. We just dont reach the late game anymore so they can't function.

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ADCs should be for late game. We just dont reach the late game anymore so they can't function.

Why should they be for late game?

Like seriously,any reasons except well just they should

Real Sexy YoonaJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why should they be for late game?

Like seriously,any reasons except well just they should

A lot of them are designed for late game. Item changes won't do shit. Stat changes (unless if it's a massive one) won't do shit either. Take a look at ashe for example. Her Q almost does nothing in the early game, her W's power spike is level 1 and 3 or 4. It actually doesn't scale well into the game at all, her E is useless in terms of damage and survival in fights. Finally, take a look at her ult, it does AP damage and scales with AP. Meaning, since Ashe's don't build any penetration or AP enhancing items, her ult becomes more useless (in terms of damage) as the game progresses because people have more MR late into the game.

This is ashe and her kit. Her power comes from her auto attacks, kiting potential, the extra autos she throws it from the stun of her ult, and auto attacks enhanced by her Q. These auto attacks become real late game- it's simply the nature of auto attacks. If you take away Ashe's (insert any other late game adc) late game, why on earth would you even pick ashe for?

I don't see a problem with Ashe's spike coming through in the late game. If you do, it's more of a design problem than itemization.

Last thing, ADC's are late game carries because their supports and team allows them to be. Take a full item yi, rengar, khazix, nocturne, jax, trynd, kayle, irelia, yasuo into a full item ADC. The ADC gets murdered and obliterated. They are only powerful in the late game because they are protected. If you make them any less powerful, why on earth would you protect them or even pick them. Stop making ADC sound like they are gods late game. Not every adc has a hypothetical lulu bot. In my games they get insta killed by melee late game carries and assassins like shaco and rengar. It's not like other classes are trash late game either. Lux, veigar, xerath can all one shot ADCs if they land their shit in the late game- which isn't an impossible task if there are other teammates that has an engage tool.

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Real Sexy Yoona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F7qOFKRr,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-07-07T13:23:04.597+0000)

A lot of them are designed for late game. Item changes won't do shit. Stat changes (unless if it's a massive one) won't do shit either. Take a look at ashe for example. Her Q almost does nothing in the early game, her W's power spike is level 1 and 3 or 4. It actually doesn't scale well into the game at all, her E is useless in terms of damage and survival in fights. Finally, take a look at her ult, it does AP damage and scales with AP. Meaning, since Ashe's don't build any penetration or AP enhancing items, her ult becomes more useless (in terms of damage) as the game progresses because people have more MR late into the game.

This is ashe and her kit. Her power comes from her auto attacks, kiting potential, the extra autos she throws it from the stun of her ult, and auto attacks enhanced by her Q. These auto attacks become real late game- it's simply the nature of auto attacks. If you take away Ashe's (insert any other late game adc) late game, why on earth would you even pick ashe for?

I don't see a problem with Ashe's spike coming through in the late game. If you do, it's more of a design problem than itemization.

Last thing, ADC's are late game carries because their supports and team allows them to be. Take a full item yi, rengar, khazix, nocturne, jax, trynd, kayle, irelia, yasuo into a full item ADC. The ADC gets murdered and obliterated. They are only powerful in the late game because they are protected. If you make them any less powerful, why on earth would you protect them or even pick them. Stop making ADC sound like they are gods late game. Not every adc has a hypothetical lulu bot. In my games they get insta killed by melee late game carries and assassins like shaco and rengar. It's not like other classes are trash late game either. Lux, veigar, xerath can all one shot ADCs if they land their shit in the late game- which isn't an impossible task if there are other teammates that has an engage tool.

You lost me at the other half,not sure when i made them out to be gods,im an adc main,i know the best how weak they are sometimes and how silly is the circle jerk making them out to be this 1v5 class,on the other hand you im only talking only about making adcs spike earlier but reduce some late game power,did you honestly just read my title and start commentating,cause it dosnt make sense what youre writing..

saltranJul 6, 20183 votes

Anyone else?

Not me, I want them to be lategame.

HàrrowRJul 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Not me, I want them to be lategame.

when most games end at around 25. minute mark,why?

ahferroin7Jul 7, 20181 votes

Most games are around 25 minutes because ADC's are not consistently late game. Most marksmen (what you're calling ADC's) spike around the end of laning phase these days. Back when games were longer, they spiked later (partly because of item costs, partly because of stats on items, partly because of how stats were balanced, and partly because there wasn't so much free damage in the form of Runes and Masteries (there was free damage there with the really old (S4 vintage) system, it just wasn't anywhere near what it is now)).

Personally, I miss those days. It was actually possible to shut out an enemy ADC who was ahead an item or an item and a half without needing your whole team to pile on top of them. Now, even having the entire team go after them together can't reliably stop them.

saltranJul 7, 20181 votes

Yes, I don't care at all and there are already more early-mid game centred adcs that shine in this meta so I don't want to turn every adc into MF.

YambrinZJul 6, 20183 votes

Because ADC's had the CHEAPEST itemization for what? 3 years? Nobody that plays adcs were demanding they be given more fair prices then were they?

HàrrowRJul 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Because ADC's had the CHEAPEST itemization for what? 3 years? Nobody that plays adcs were demanding they be given more fair prices then were they?

Honestly the prices were perfect,i'm not sure why was there a need for this whole itemization overhaul,if they wanted to nerf ADCs they could have lowered the damage IE provided,like i already mentioned..

Also you fail to notice that for a carry to get online he needs 2 items at least,just an IE doesn't mean jack shit compared to an assassin with a duskblade,bruiser with a BC or a mage with Ludens and then still he's usually very team reliant.

Don't approach everything with Us vs them mentality, ADCs offer only one thing to the team,damage. No tankiness,no shields no heals,no quick in and out assassinations,very little if any CC or other utility,not even good at split pushing because of how weak they are 1v1,just damage that is very dependent on their items and on their team to peel for them,if you think they are op go try and play them and tell us how you climbed to Dia 1..

ankoanko19Jul 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Honestly the prices were perfect,i'm not sure why was there a need for this whole itemization overhaul,if they wanted to nerf ADCs they could have lowered the damage IE provided,like i already mentioned..

Also you fail to notice that for a carry to get online he needs 2 items at least,just an IE doesn't mean jack shit compared to an assassin with a duskblade,bruiser with a BC or a mage with Ludens and then still he's usually very team reliant.

Don't approach everything with Us vs them mentality, ADCs offer only one thing to the team,damage. No tankiness,no shields no heals,no quick in and out assassinations,very little if any CC or other utility,not even good at split pushing because of how weak they are 1v1,just damage that is very dependent on their items and on their team to peel for them,if you think they are op go try and play them and tell us how you climbed to Dia 1..

Then what? ''RIOT I DEAL 0 DMG TO TANKS!!!!!1''

PhDs NutsJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because ADC's had the CHEAPEST itemization for what? 3 years? Nobody that plays adcs were demanding they be given more fair prices then were they?

lol. They had 2 items in their core build that were cheaper than individual core items in other class' builds, but required 2-4 items to reach a power spike compared to the 1-2 items needed for bruisers/assassins. They had cheaper items, but not a cheaper core power spike.

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Jul 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Because ADC's had the CHEAPEST itemization for what? 3 years? Nobody that plays adcs were demanding they be given more fair prices then were they?

Stat for stat tank items and even most bruiser items are hands down the best in the game for their cost

Teridax68Jul 6, 20183 votes

I agree with this, and this is something I've been suggesting for quite some time on my side. One of the major problems with marksmen as a class is that far too many of them are made to scale in the same way, which is not only terrible for diversity, but also directly bad for marksman players, who'd find themselves screwed over if games ended too quickly for their late-game champs to shine. For the longest time, this didn't happen because marksmen scaled too quickly, but now that crit builds have been appropriately slowed down, we're starting to see the negatives. Because of this, I think marksmen need to be balanced around their own power curves, and should spike at different times in the game, instead of having all crit marksmen scale late.

In general, I feel a champion's power scaling should derive from their own kit, rather than the items they build. An early game champion and a late game champion should both be able to pick the same item and get very different benefits from it, yet the problem with crit is that it tends to give the same benefits to everyone, and so in the same manner. There are some differences with crit scalings on certain marksmen, but overall, crit builds work by multiplying the user's autoattacks, and putting aside steroids, autoattacks tend to scale in the same way. Riot's planning some buffs for the crit marksmen that are really underperforming, but overall I agree that we need to start putting less emphasis on implementing scaling through items, and more instead on individual kit scalings, so that a player who plays crit marksmen could have a varied range of early-, mid- and late-game champions to choose from. Toning down both the cost and stats of marksman items could be a step towards this, particularly since Zeal items are ripe for a flat 5% reduction to their crit chance, along with some appropriate reduction in cost (or, alternatively, an increase to their own cost, and a larger reduction to the cost of IE).

HàrrowRJul 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I agree with this, and this is something I've been suggesting for quite some time on my side. One of the major problems with marksmen as a class is that far too many of them are made to scale in the same way, which is not only terrible for diversity, but also directly bad for marksman players, who'd find themselves screwed over if games ended too quickly for their late-game champs to shine. For the longest time, this didn't happen because marksmen scaled too quickly, but now that crit builds have been appropriately slowed down, we're starting to see the negatives. Because of this, I think marksmen need to be balanced around their own power curves, and should spike at different times in the game, instead of having all crit marksmen scale late.

In general, I feel a champion's power scaling should derive from their own kit, rather than the items they build. An early game champion and a late game champion should both be able to pick the same item and get very different benefits from it, yet the problem with crit is that it tends to give the same benefits to everyone, and so in the same manner. There are some differences with crit scalings on certain marksmen, but overall, crit builds work by multiplying the user's autoattacks, and putting aside steroids, autoattacks tend to scale in the same way. Riot's planning some buffs for the crit marksmen that are really underperforming, but overall I agree that we need to start putting less emphasis on implementing scaling through items, and more instead on individual kit scalings, so that a player who plays crit marksmen could have a varied range of early-, mid- and late-game champions to choose from.

I completely agree,more damage should come from marksmen kits than their items,i mean there's a lot of adcs that are this way already,and they tend to be my favorite ones to play Lucian Ezreal Varus Jhin MissFortune Kaisa as opposed to the ones that rely heavily on their items to deal damage and their spells are mostly mobility/cc or just some filler damage like Caitlyn Twitch Vayne Sivir Al tough some heavy AA reliant do have a surprising amount of ability damage too like Jinx

Teridax68Jul 7, 20181 votes

I feel heavily autoattack-based marksmen have a place in the game too, it's just that often their power is often too consistent. Twitch, Vayne, Sivir, and Tristana, for example, mostly just have on-demand, reliable, steroids, which means there isn't all that much interaction or real variation to their attack-based power (and this is also true of melee autoattackers like Master Yi). By contrast, Jinx avoids this problem by having her steroid offer a distinct tradeoff no matter which mode she's in. Giving these AA-based champions more conditional steroids, or steroids with real tradeoffs, could allow their damage to vary more, which in turn could allow them to have more power placed on their kits without it necessarily being always on.

MasterDCloneJul 7, 20183 votes

I don't hate ADC's, they are quite easy to kill for an assassin main and give me a purpose in the game. What i hate are adc players, the majority of em are toxic and entitled, they think they are the center of everygame which they kinda were.

Aside from that i quite agree with your post and it does seem like a good solution to the marksmen issue atm

Wild GeeseJul 6, 20182 votes

The idea of hypercarries existing is awful and outdated, ranged or melee... It should be removed from the game.

"When this champion has 6 Items they just win effortlessly" is not a good design.

HyquiemJul 6, 20181 votes

Ok that means marksmen in general. That means azir and corki need reworks Quinn is to string nerf her. Any thing else considered b/c now if you want to whine about adcs, you whine about marksman so azir can be buffed.

GabelousJul 7, 20181 votes

The problem with ADCs right now?

1a. IE changed in both effect and cost. Not having inherent crit + requiring two BF Swords means it only powerspikes with a crit item. 1b. Combined with 1a means it takes nearly 3k gold to reach that powerspike, fighters/assassins reach their powerspike in nearly half the gold. 2. Fighter/assassins have more diverse items and choices in their builds. They can have their AD, mixed with armor or MR or extra health. 3. The only combo items ADCs are are basically black cleaver (which is expensive) or mercial scimitar (which is also expensive). You can count GA and Maw but they are also more expensive than most fighter items/builds.

I main ADC and even if I have a reasonably average or good game and win, I'm usually 3rd on the damage meters (tops). Until Rito fixes this present "changes" to ADCs there seems little to no reason to have them in the meta now. Unless you want a scapegoat to blame losses on, which we take anyway despite everyone else out-damaging us.

LegitBusinessmanJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I mean the biggest problem with adcs right now is that those reliant on crit have simply too expensive builds and get shut down easily early,this price somehow makes up for the amount of damage provided if you get to your items..

But this system doesnt provide the most important thing in this video game,fun. I know most board members hate adcs and their misery is their fun,but i honestly cant figure why not just lower the stats on ADC items to make them more streamlined through out the game,not too weak early not too strong late game,for instance

Infinity edge gets damage reduced to 55,but price lowered to 2900,shiv and rfc damage get reduced,or their crit,and so does their price,there is no real reason for adcs to be a late game class except if the devs want them to be,id rather them be balanced then have only two states of super weak or super strong

Anyone else?

Lets just massively buff everything so everything is on a 2 item power curve on games that last 15 minutes because that's where we're going.

Then this game can die a fast death as it devolves into the quality of some shit tier mobile game.

Edit: I think you're entirely wrong. The idea of power spikes or power curves is a total strategic element of the game that is basically disappeared in this game due to damage creep. You're suggestion just homogenizes champions even more and pushes the game toward a bland orthodoxy.

EvLoFoJul 7, 20181 votes

I think IE needs a little tweaking.

Right now, the IE passive of double crit strike chance interacts poorly with the zeal items we currently have. Since all zeal items have a critical strike chance of 30%, you have to buy two zeal items to reach 100% crit strike chance. The problem with doing this is that you end up wasting gold because two zeal items with the double crit strike chance adds up to 120% crit strike chance. In other words, you're paying a significant amount for stats you can't use on a full crit build.

Of course, you can avoid this by not going full crit and settling for one zeal item with 60% crit strike chance when combined with IE. But the problem with this is that many of the champs like Caitlyn Vayne Tristana are more reliant on auto attacks rather than abilities to deal damage. The fact that they have to settle for less than full crit or overpay for extra critical strike chance they can't use is one of the biggest reasons they've been in the dumpster since 8.11. We're finally seeing some overdue buffs to some of them, but it's an awkward solution because the real problem is their builds.

The best way to fix IE would be to change the passive so that it no longer gives the double crit strike chance. Instead, it should give a 5/3 crit strike chance. With that ratio, two zeal items with IE would add up to a 100% crit strike chance. The price of IE could then be reduced (if you value 1% crit strike chance at 40 gold, IE should be 800 gold cheaper with the nerf).

Meep ManJul 7, 20181 votes

ADCs are almost innately a late game class though, as the innate fact that they have an infinite source of high damage at their disposal as long as they get items naturally makes them better in the late game. Their kits are built around basic attacks, which are the highest form of DPS in the game once you get items, regardless of whether you make the items cheaper and less stats or not. Unless you make ADC items give absolute garbage stats and insanely cheap, ADCs will always be a late game class. It's in their nature.

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The God of Rams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F7qOFKRr,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-07-07T04:27:17.337+0000)

ADCs are almost innately a late game class though, as the innate fact that they have an infinite source of high damage at their disposal as long as they get items naturally makes them better in the late game. Their kits are built around basic attacks, which are the highest form of DPS in the game once you get items, regardless of whether you make the items cheaper and less stats or not. Unless you make ADC items give absolute garbage stats and insanely cheap, ADCs will always be a late game class. It's in their nature.

Just switch "absolute garbage" with "lower stats" in your last sentence and you just said the same thing i did in my post.

Lower stats and the price so adcs arent weak early and strong late game but at a medium power level through out the whole game

Its not in their "nature" its a video game,they can rework them all tomorrow to be ap casters instead,there is no rule they have to be something

CorruptedScytheJul 7, 20181 votes

As an adc main for the past 4 years, I am completely happy with ADCs being late game. They just need a little bit of a touch up right now to make it actually possible to reach it. Which they're doing next patch. I can't wait to play my Jinxy baby again.

AmazoXJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I mean the biggest problem with adcs right now is that those reliant on crit have simply too expensive builds and get shut down easily early,this price somehow makes up for the amount of damage provided if you get to your items..

No, ADC players are not used to not having BPS 15-20 minutes into the game now.

Nobody enjoyed having Twitch, Caitlyn, Draven and lethality abusing ADCS power spiking almost as hard as Mid laners on top having impactful support without skill likewise for their point and click nukes.

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, ADC players are not used to not having BPS 15-20 minutes into the game now.

Nobody enjoyed having Twitch, Caitlyn, Draven and lethality abusing ADCS power spiking almost as hard as Mid laners on top having impactful support without skill likewise for their point and click nukes.

Wrong,i enjoyed it he he

DW DianaJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I mean the biggest problem with adcs right now is that those reliant on crit have simply too expensive builds and get shut down easily early,this price somehow makes up for the amount of damage provided if you get to your items..

But this system doesnt provide the most important thing in this video game,fun. I know most board members hate adcs and their misery is their fun,but i honestly cant figure why not just lower the stats on ADC items to make them more streamlined through out the game,not too weak early not too strong late game,for instance

Infinity edge gets damage reduced to 55,but price lowered to 2900,shiv and rfc damage get reduced,or their crit,and so does their price,there is no real reason for adcs to be a late game class except if the devs want them to be,id rather them be balanced then have only two states of super weak or super strong

Anyone else?

Crit marksmen (There's a difference between an ADC and a Marksman) are scaling champions, and they SHOULD be. Most mages are the same, and their items are far more expensive then those of an crit marksman.

That having been said, I do agree there shouldn't be so MUCH difference early for either of these, but that would be down to their base damage, not their items. Their items are already some of the cheapest damage items in the game; far cheaper then those used by most mages. Their late game scaling is more due to how crit operates in League, and without a fundamental change to this, I don't see how you expect to improve their early game without simply making them strong all the time, effectively breaking them again.

cocacolalipsJul 7, 20181 votes

from a game design perspective, in a game like LoL where there is no timer or hard rule that determines when a game is over, you need a class of champion that can eventually end games more or less on their own, so games don't drag out forever, ADC is that class of champions, you could change that but then you would have to pick another class of champions to fulfill that goal

HàrrowRJul 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

from a game design perspective, in a game like LoL where there is no timer or hard rule that determines when a game is over, you need a class of champion that can eventually end games more or less on their own, so games don't drag out forever, ADC is that class of champions, you could change that but then you would have to pick another class of champions to fulfill that goal

Id say baron,dragon buffs,elder dragon,super minionts etc do a pretty good job of helping games end,now we see games with mages bot and they dont drag out any longer