Health nerfs to tank items please

Lock On·Aug 30, 2016·3 votes·388 views

Tanks and bruisers given an obnoxious safety net to do almost anything they want with a very forgiving amount of health, allowing them excessive time to escape. This is part of what's dragging this game downhill; teamfights especially in LCS are getting more boring as its more often about which team has a better cc and gapclosers than mechanical skill. Nothing but a retarded slugfest in the middle with the fat Jinx in the background mindlessly smacking everyone.

23 Comments

Lock OnSep 1, 20163 votes

How is it healthy for a 3k Gragas with massive mobility (great gapcloser,) low cooldowns, damage reduction, and slows to nearly solo a carry to be part of the game? What true damage bs? Vayne, great, you picked one champ, implying she fits into your comp, while I could also pick on Trundle, Skarner***, Jarvan, Rammus, Sejuani has your bs true damage right there! You have Deadman's, Randuin's, Iceborn, on top of your stacked kits with speedups and cc. Unless you're like 4 levels behind their carry, there's usually no problem zoning them off any fight. That's literally all your job is, and it's absolutely underwhelming to play the most mechanically-demanding role in the game knowing how easy you guys have it. You don't need to mind your positioning for assassins, or flanks, or dives nearly as squishies. At least midlaners can buy that hextech item and remain viable, providing HP, AP, and having a gapcloser for an active. If we at least had a better compromise between having those beefy stats with kill potential at the very least it'd be great to nerf a bit of the damage. Being able to zone carries and slow their dps is already a huge asset for the team, why grant them so much kill potential?

BeldairAug 30, 20162 votes

Tanks are supposed to be healthy, buff meat shields.

Get armor pen or play true damage champs and voila, you win.

AvienalAug 30, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Tanks are supposed to be healthy, buff meat shields.

Get armor pen or play true damage champs and voila, you win.

The problem is there's plenty of 'tank' items that grant HP, Armor or Magic Resist and usually a powerful utility and sometimes even CDR, health regen or other gags that turn into powerful one item grabs that can shut down a roster of champions on the AP side or the AD side or even more specifically: "Champions who even if they build % mobility items, will not be able to catch you while your rocking a Deadman's plate and your own % move items."

Its more of a matter they need to split up the tank item variety so some are for hp focus, some are for AD tanking focus and some is for AP tanking focus. That way it would create a situation where champions who have been following the few damage items then stack tank item routes be forced into situations where they have to put favor over either stacking HP to likely pad themselves against everything but end up getting shredded if he gets focused on champions that especially brought % hp killer items. They focus on Armor instead because the enemy team consists mostly of ADs on its 'dangerous priority end' or they focus on MR because the kill potential champions on the enemy team is mostly AP champions.

At the very least, AD items usually end up getting divided between building attack speed & Critical chance or Straight up AD items with pen utility or even items with low damage values but make up for it with utilities like life steal, on hit effects or other things to make them 'useful'. Same logic with AP except its mainly between straight AP, AP with CDR or even AP utility based items.

It would at the very least, result in plays especially in late game where some champions might swap items to go in favor with other items to counter act each other and its not a simple game of everyone plays omni'tankard and use utilities that can infinitely stack or shred at any level like Veigar, Thresh and Kindred's stacks for the former end or even Yasuo's ultimate in the latter end, just to have the capability to melt any enemies fast that especially do not thrive in late game. That or force matches to be less tilted and it would be relatively easy to have another ally to trade focus and take down a enemy champion who build a tankie 'counter' against you, but they couldn't build counter against your ally who is a AP instead of a AD and especially couldn't just build both with the new 'changes' that should be applied so he either builds to counter one type or tries to half counter both each and rely on cunning and cheap tactics to not get destroyed by either of them.

Ok sure but whyAug 30, 20161 votes

how about nerf ad to tank items instead

InfernoFøxAug 30, 20162 votes

This isnt WoW. As tank, yes, you are supposed to absorb a lot of the damage and peel for your carries. But if they do absolutely no damage, then they have no purpose besides someone who stands there til they die. They should have the ability to help out with damage. Not just take damage and say eh F*ck it, ill go in 1v5 and take damage while you guys are doing something else til you get to me a minute later. (exaggeration)

Ok sure but whyAug 30, 20162 votes

they're obnoxious cc whores

MissingKayoAug 30, 20164 votes

Um, they don't need to damage. They have CC.

zacktootallAug 30, 20161 votes

alright lets take the stun off riven then sense she has damage see where im going here?

MissingKayoAug 30, 20163 votes

Except Riven's not a tank.

zacktootallAug 31, 20161 votes

ok and that is fine the point is cant any champ be able to do anything other then what they are labeled to do? i mean for example i used to take shen jg and build devourer on him and that was fun to me

zacktootallAug 30, 20161 votes

health is what keeps us tanks alive from your bs true damage so if you want less health then i say get rid of true damage first

AvienalAug 30, 20163 votes

{quoted}

health is what keeps us tanks alive from your bs true damage so if you want less health then i say get rid of true damage first

Again i'll just keep it plain and simple, they just need to split up the items so tank items have categories for HP stacking, Armor stacking and Magic Resist stacking and would make it extremely unviable to do things like stack 5 tank items and walk around killing everything thanks to you having effectively a 4k+ hp wall and a kit that lets you do large amounts of damage even if you have no real equips sides maybe one or two that grants a powerful utility or plenty of AD or AP to let you get away with killing easily even when your built as a tank.

Doesn't matter what kind of online game it is, if a game allows a one partial build fits all to shut down everything and still be a viable threat, then they should of already taken measures to butcher that semi-omnipotent build style or watch as they lose players in matches because some can't take the presence of constant tank winning bullfudge'ry thats winning matches constantly.

[zombie-brand-clap]

zacktootallAug 30, 20161 votes

TRUE DAMAGE its why you have it.... [zombie-brand-facepalm]

MissingKayoAug 30, 20164 votes

"bs true damage"

mmk bud.

zacktootallAug 30, 20161 votes

ok im old so wtf does mmk mean?

MissingKayoAug 30, 20161 votes

It's just like, "mmmm okay".

zacktootallAug 31, 20161 votes

thank you

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 30, 20161 votes

ill except a nerf to hp tank items as long as we nerf true damage, %hp damage and passive and % armor and mr reduction. and reduce crit damage

AvienalAug 30, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EzFjL280,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-30T04:40:08.267+0000)

ill except a nerf to hp tank items as long as we nerf true damage, %hp damage and passive and % armor and mr reduction. and reduce crit damage

--Yeah don't think so, most % hp items are made to counter act high hp stack champion types and items like Blood razor may give a powerful % kill and attack speed chunk gain, it doesn't give much else besides its jungle utility customization so it tends to be sub'par without anything else to back it up to work, especially when its a item that does not allow you really tower push since it doesnt give raw damage.

--True damage on some champions do need fine tuning, but some actually have it right such as requiring certain mechanics to be active for them to have any real use (Like Garen's Villian won't work on anyone besides his marked target that is basically the 'champion thriving the most in a kill streak at the moment, or they were just next in line after Garen 'smited' the first one).

--As for % armor and MR shredding, you need to recall that Armor and MR both get less scaling as you continue to stack them, so in that regard, the '% shredders' get a bad wake up call when they are just mostly shredding the low scaling bonus armor/magic resist so its understandable why they shred such a large amount to even have a chance of standing out considerably. Plus usually if its against a 'no armor/mr stack enemy', it usually only shreds up to enough armor/magic resist to remove about 10% to maybe even 20% of the damage 'resistance' that would get normally applied, if a item like void staff or lord domink's is made use of.

--Considering Randuin's omen is really the only item with the gimmick to reduce crit damage last i checked, its the same argument i've had to deal with when i posted on a thread who was complaining about Cassiopeia's Grounding mechanic is sooooo OP. Considering just like 'Grounded', Randuin's omen ability to reduce crit damage is basically a gimmick around that item alone, it allows it to be a specialty item tailored to counter act 'normal' ADC champions or crit reliant non-marksmen champions like Master Yi, Tryndamere and 'Yasuo' which makes it one of the best tank items to counter them, since all 3 champions plus 'marksmen in general' are AD champions and make use of attack speed (which Randuin's carrys armor, attack speed reduction on enemies that attack him and of course, reducing any damage taken from critical strikes.

If they reduce all the utility damage and penetration at the same time as nerfing the hp stacking craze that tank items get, then it effectively defeats the purpose because everything would just basically be the same again in terms of mechanic stand points, except damage values would be a bit higher because so many other things got brought down to a lower level.

[zombie-brand-clap]

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

--Yeah don't think so, most % hp items are made to counter act high hp stack champion types and items like Blood razor may give a powerful % kill and attack speed chunk gain, it doesn't give much else besides its jungle utility customization so it tends to be sub'par without anything else to back it up to work, especially when its a item that does not allow you really tower push since it doesnt give raw damage.

--True damage on some champions do need fine tuning, but some actually have it right such as requiring certain mechanics to be active for them to have any real use (Like Garen's Villian won't work on anyone besides his marked target that is basically the 'champion thriving the most in a kill streak at the moment, or they were just next in line after Garen 'smited' the first one).

--As for % armor and MR shredding, you need to recall that Armor and MR both get less scaling as you continue to stack them, so in that regard, the '% shredders' get a bad wake up call when they are just mostly shredding the low scaling bonus armor/magic resist so its understandable why they shred such a large amount to even have a chance of standing out considerably. Plus usually if its against a 'no armor/mr stack enemy', it usually only shreds up to enough armor/magic resist to remove about 10% to maybe even 20% of the damage 'resistance' that would get normally applied, if a item like void staff or lord domink's is made use of.

--Considering Randuin's omen is really the only item with the gimmick to reduce crit damage last i checked, its the same argument i've had to deal with when i posted on a thread who was complaining about Cassiopeia's Grounding mechanic is sooooo OP. Considering just like 'Grounded', Randuin's omen ability to reduce crit damage is basically a gimmick around that item alone, it allows it to be a specialty item tailored to counter act 'normal' ADC champions or crit reliant non-marksmen champions like Master Yi, Tryndamere and 'Yasuo' which makes it one of the best tank items to counter them, since all 3 champions plus 'marksmen in general' are AD champions and make use of attack speed (which Randuin's carrys armor, attack speed reduction on enemies that attack him and of course, reducing any damage taken from critical strikes.

If they reduce all the utility damage and penetration at the same time as nerfing the hp stacking craze that tank items get, then it effectively defeats the purpose because everything would just basically be the same again in terms of mechanic stand points, except damage values would be a bit higher because so many other things got brought down to a lower level.

[zombie-brand-clap]

thanks for the novel i needed to read more. but my point is everything has to have balance if you nerf one set of stats " tank items" as the OP is speaking , my point the damage items/ armor pen. magic pen crit , true damage anything damage related gets buffed indirectly. making all your damage carries stronger then tanks wouldnt go tank they would go more damage with their natural base stats and then people are gonna cry that tanks are doing more damage and damage needs to be nerfed. its all a balance and a very very sensitive ecosystem. so with every change tweak buff nerf other things on the opposite end of it would be buffed/nerfed indirectly.

Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction

and this applies to the balance of league as far as items, runes, masteries , champs

so people fail to understand this fundamental law when they are crying about whatever balance change that suits their interest

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 30, 20161 votes

i dont think a 6 item KogMaw as issues with tanks

item 1419 item 3085 item 3124 item 3091 item 3153 item 3006 who needs arm pen ?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 30, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EzFjL280,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-30T05:21:34.819+0000)

i dont think a 6 item as issues with tanks

who needs arm pen ?

lol that being said about KogMaw i think tank items need a buff lol man he hurts

AvienalAug 30, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EzFjL280,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-08-30T05:22:11.089+0000)

lol that being said about i think tank items need a buff lol man he hurts

Its only because he's one of those fancy marksmen who uses On-hit effects over damage. Plus everyone knows when on-hit effects get thrown into the mix it tends to distort standard match ups. I'm still salty myself that Twitch and Kog'ma have been showing more active'ness as junglers then Kindred who is suppose to be 'THE Jungle Marksmen' in LoL, but because she doesn't have things like the ability to boost her own attack speed, she ends up getting over taken by Kog ma and twitch who both have utilities to gain large amounts of attack speed, even in early game, plus other gimmicks that let them be super harassive even when they haven't been 'detected' yet.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]