But if you are 1/1/0 at 13 minutes and all of our lanes are standing under our towers you should maybe do something
if we are getting shit on in bot lane you shouldn't bitch us out when you see their adc has 5 kills when you have had 13 minutes of easy ganks.
Junglers are meant to assist lanes, not farm till mid game
CerealBoxOfDoom4 votesjunglers are not meant to assist lanes
in fact jungle exists specifically so that one player doesn't have to actually assist a lane to increase experience gain over time.
Jungle is not obligated to help and also being under your tower doesn't mean much unless you're like yasuo or something
FioraWillCarry3 votesjunglers are not meant to assist lanes
in fact jungle exists specifically so that one player doesn't have to actually assist a lane to increase experience gain over time.
Jungle is not obligated to help and also being under your tower doesn't mean much unless you're like yasuo or something
Preach it bro.....I'm tired of people believing the role of the jungler is to babysit noobs who don't bother learning the basics of laning.
I'll also add that overtime, the meta evolved another purpose for the jungler besides making the gold and xp distribution more efficient and that is to control the other jungler's impact. Lee-Sin comes to mind as counter jungling is the strongest but most risky way. Other ways include stealing buffs, counter ganking and providing vision in the enemy jungle and updating your team on the last known position of the enemy jungler.
Touch My Box1 votesPreach it bro.....I'm tired of people believing the role of the jungler is to babysit noobs who don't bother learning the basics of laning.
I'll also add that overtime, the meta evolved another purpose for the jungler besides making the gold and xp distribution more efficient and that is to control the other jungler's impact. Lee-Sin comes to mind as counter jungling is the strongest but most risky way. Other ways include stealing buffs, counter ganking and providing vision in the enemy jungle and updating your team on the last known position of the enemy jungler.
HAHA, LEEE SIN... RISK.. HAHA WHAT A BRILLIANT JOKE, PAL.
FioraWillCarry1 votes[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EtjvNLpW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-02T07:58:06.865+0000)
HAHA, LEEE SIN... RISK.. HAHA WHAT A BRILLIANT JOKE, PAL.
I played him the other day. Granted it's my one and only game on Lee but I spent the entire game missing my Q and being utterly useless while ward hoping no greater a distance than melee range. I left that game with a greater respect for Lee Sin players.
Touch My Box1 votesI played him the other day. Granted it's my one and only game on Lee but I spent the entire game missing my Q and being utterly useless while ward hoping no greater a distance than melee range. I left that game with a greater respect for Lee Sin players.
The reward of practice should be pride, "I am a Lee sin Master" not "Let me crush everybody with my insane damage and never die with my insane miracle making moves that have low cooldowns"
FioraWillCarry1 votes[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EtjvNLpW,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-02T08:55:39.270+0000)
The reward of practice should be pride, "I am a Lee sin Master" not "Let me crush everybody with my insane damage and never die with my insane miracle making moves that have low cooldowns"
Sounds more like Leblanc than Lee-Sin. I hate that bitch.
Swiftstrike43 votesI am not a great jungler, it is the role I play most often probably in normals, while I play mostly top and support in ranked games.
I typically play lower pressure junglers that scale well at level six. Most of the time the players I play with know I won't really gank a lane until then.
I do play the position enough to understand what I should be doing even if my execution isn't great. I do know that ganking shouldn't be a higher priority than controlling objectives.
- lower elo junglers should do this too to maintain vision controlI have noticed that a lot of silver an bronze players, even some lower gold players, think that the jungler is largely responsible for assisting lanes and ganking. I know this is not the case, the jungler is suppose to exert map pressure and board control, which can be through ganking but is also takes other forms as well. Securing dragons, towers, maintaining vision, maintaining control of the jungle, harassing the enemy, taking enemy camps etc.
A jungler can't really solve every lane losing, but if the jungler mostly power farmed to get strong then the other lanes should recognize that. If that is what the jungler is going to do early then they should adjust their play accordingly.
There are bad junglers too, and I am not claiming to be a great one, but I do know that if every lane is losing that isn't my fault, nor can I fix those problems. Now if I try to gank a lane and I die and lead to a lane snowballing out of control, that is on me.
As a top laner I actually prefer the jungler to leave me a lone. I don't think he/she should be focusing on my lane too much and most of the time when they come I am sacrificing A LOT of CS to assist them in a kill. Typically they come when I am shoved under tower. Since I play 
top I am pretty easy to gank for, but sometimes I will ignore my jungler if they keep coming top. I rather catch the wave. I also know that they should be on the bottom half of the map more often in order to secure the dragon early.
So typically when I jungle I leave the top lane mostly alone. This isn't to say I don't provide them vision or I refuse to help them, but they a pretty low priority lane.
oOBestEveNAOo3 votesI am not a great jungler.
Clearly.
I typically play lower pressure junglers that scale well at level six. Most of the time the players I play with know I won't really gank a lane until then.
This is part of the reason why. You fail to understand the importance of pressure to the game.
I do play the position enough to understand what I should be doing.
Doubtful. Let's take a look at your list and see what's wrong with it.
- Junglers shouldn't gank lanes that are really behind - they should gank only even or winning lanes
False. The opposite actually. Winning lanes don't need help applying pressure, they have a lead. Losing lanes need help, and should be prioritized accordingly.
- Junglers should be on the bottom half of the map more often for dragon control - meaning they aren't going to come top as often
Accurate. The greater concentration of objectives on the bottom half means a jungler should spend more time on the bottom half than the top half in most games.
- After 20 minutes they should rarely be on the bottom side of the map with a baron up.
False. You positioning and strategy in mid game are dependent on your vision control. It's difficult to take baton quickly that early, even with 5 team members. Because of this, wherever you establish vision control should be the quadrant you work most heavily in. It is ideal for this to be top half in case you win a fight so you can quickly take baron, but down feel pigeon holed into being top half.
- I value vision (as a support player) so I always go
Good habit, largely goes to waste in every Elo below challenger tho unless the jungler is Lee sin.
The red and blue smite options off far superior combat ability and pressure.
- If you lose control of your jungle too early it means you will probably lose the game fast
The number one way to do this is to try to play a low pressure heavy scaling farm dependent jungler and ignore the lanes. Happens this way the overwhelming majority of games. Most junglers are very bad and have zero or a negative impact on the game in the first 10 minutes and lose consistently because of it. You control your jungle by controlling your lanes. Basic fundamental stuff.
- If you die as the jungler 2x you are probably going to be crazy behind - not only are you dead but the enemy can take your camps in the mean time - after I die once in a failed gank and we get nothing out of it, I don't really gank again and will just wait for the team fight phase
Learning how to be efficient and always in the right place at the right time to make an impact without dying is tough. Most players will never have the mental acquity or strategic awareness required to do this effectively, and this is basically the junglers only job. Know where to be when and what to do when you get there.
In 100% of cases, failing a gank happens because you are a bad jungler. None of mine ever fail. 100% of the time I get a kill or a summoner or a trade at an advantage. 100% of the time. Not joking.
- I can't teach people how to lane - people in silver and bronze have a hard time laning and farming under tower - most players in gold can farm under tower and keep up in CS
This is why it's important to help them constantly.
- If every lane is losing I can't fix that, nor should I be expected too
If every lane is losing, then 100% of the time, this is your fault as a jungler. You didn't participate as part of the team effectively and thus caused that situation be being incapable of understanding what you needed to be doing when and where. You should be expected to never allow this to happen. At least one of your lanes should win every game you jungle or you failed to do your job.
Just some perspective from one of the best junglers on the entire na server.
Erockandroll1 votesBut if you are 1/1/0 at 13 minutes and all of our lanes are standing under their towers you should maybe do something
if we are getting shit on in bot lane you shouldn't bitch us out when you see their adc has 5 kills when you have had 13 minutes of easy ganks.
Junglers are meant to assist lanes, not farm till mid game
In my experience Jungling. Pushing up to the enemy tower really makes it difficult for me to actually gank, as it practically requires me to dive turret. If I came to your lane to find that your that far pushed, my best bet would be to set up additional vision to prevent a gank, usually within the enemy quadrant of the Jungle. If I can dive fine, otherwise I would likely end up counter Jungling that quadrant, and put the enemy Jungler behind.
As for your second argument, how much gank assist can a really expect from someone who is losing that badly? But seriously though, I would have better luck ganking a winning lane.
Numb3rs1 votesIn my experience Jungling. Pushing up to the enemy tower really makes it difficult for me to actually gank, as it practically requires me to dive turret. If I came to your lane to find that your that far pushed, my best bet would be to set up additional vision to prevent a gank, usually within the enemy quadrant of the Jungle. If I can dive fine, otherwise I would likely end up counter Jungling that quadrant, and put the enemy Jungler behind.
As for your second argument, how much gank assist can a really expect from someone who is losing that badly? But seriously though, I would have better luck ganking a winning lane.
i might have worded it badly but i meant when OUR team is standing under OUR towers not pushed up to the enemys.
CrazyBear19871 votes"I'm not blaming the jungler for losing lane..." - after reading, your blaming the jungler for "not doing anything for 13 minutes"
"But if you are 1/1/0 at 13 minutes and all of our lanes are standing under our towers you should maybe do something" - what would you suggest? in that situation who would prioritize? Mid first then split to go one top and one bot? seems like everyone is failing here in that situation.
"if we are getting shit on in bot lane you shouldn't bitch us out when you see their adc has 5 kills when you have had 13 minutes of easy ganks." - if it was truly an easy gank, you should have been able to the take the kill. if you needed his help, the gank was in desperation, and probably not in the jungler's favor as you are dependent on them to do most of the work. This all depends on what champions was jungling,
"Junglers are meant to assist lanes, not farm till mid game" - not true, different jungler's have different compatibilities and majority of the time, yes they are meant to farm, cause maybe they choose a champion that was complete trash without any items.
Overall i think you had a rough game, the game obviously went bad, but the jungler is not an all-in solution to any problem, he may assist, but it's not compulsory. Honesly he doesn't sound like the best jungler, so what do you expect him to do? feed after a failed gank?
What game was this?
Trylobyte1 votesI'll correct you. SOME junglers are meant to assist lanes, others are actually meant to farm til mid-game. A Shyvana staying in the jungle for 15 minutes isn't all that weird, but a Lee Sin should definitely be ganking all over the place like Bruce Lee on crack.
Rockm Sockm1 votesI don't care what the jungle does as long as he stops getting caught out,feeding and afk farming.
Problem with dragon buffs and the importance of early game means jungle is the most important person.
Half of them at my elo are boosted and cam barely survive jungle camps. They all pick yi or Lee sin and feed.
All they do us rage and pretend the know anything about wards, or map control.
The Deckowner1 votesJunglers are meant to assist lanes, not farm till mid game
MetalGearTeemu1 votesits not always the junglers fault, but sometimes it can be.
I've had plenty of stinker games where our shaco is 1/0/0 and their yi is 4/0/3 because lol why gank on shaco lol?
and the yi has more cs.
Though admittedly I've had those games with the jungler too where the team is super aggro and gets killed constantly as soon as you go to the other side of the map. its your job to at least outfarm the other guy if thats goign on tho.
Untiltable Joe1 votesAnd I'm just here top lane tower farming while my jungler gets level 3 from krugs and goes straight to bot lane. Not saying its free but i do like cheese