Sooo...about Swain

Hay5eed·Mar 2, 2018·5 votes·2,026 views

I've played this guy a couple of times and seriously he feels like a menacing Bard at release.

Dude's got one damaging ability, a cc that is tricky af to land, his ult doesn't seem to heal enough to sustain any real fight

And then there is his W...holy crap

There are telegraphed abilities in league. There are abilities that are difficult to land unless you have some cc on your opponent.

Swain's W is probably the ONLY ability in League that REQUIRES cc to land it.

Sure you could say that it's more a scouting ability, but that still leave him with only two abilities to lane with, one of which doesn't do damage, so now only ONE ability to lane with.

I feel like Bard at release. and trust me, thats not a good thing

28 Comments

TakazakiMar 2, 20182 votes

the E isnt tricky to land once you get use to it. its actually quite bullshit at times when i snare people that no other champion in this game would have gotten to.

secondly W more use then just its ability. its a really fun bait tool.

seriously. drop the W off center on someone, they will always dodge to the closest edge. easy snare.

TheProfezzorMar 2, 20182 votes

I don't think he's too bad. I wish his W would land quicker but honestly I am having a lot of success as supp swain in gold/silv elo.

OnotoriMar 2, 20182 votes

For all these people complaining about Swain being weak, I've got a 4:1 and a ~50% or better WR on two accounts, both of which have 60+ games.

But no, we want a repeat of Ornn. ^^

nelogisMar 2, 20183 votes

Guys this guy has a positive winrate we can't buff Swain.

Yeah no don't worry I just phoned Riot and told them that Konotori has a positive winrate, they just canceled the buffs on the PBE.

OnotoriMar 2, 20181 votes

No, I'm saying that, if I can do it, then so can everyone else.

nelogisMar 2, 20181 votes

doesn't work like that

I can play full AD Thresh top on my smurf and have a positive winrate, doesn't mean it's good.

You could have been just lucky with your teams, lucky that the enemy didn't know how Swain works, lucky that the enemy underestimated your damage, lucky that the enemy didn't know how to play against Swain.

That's why you need a bigger sample size

And the bigger sample size says 48% WR mid and around 47% top.

OnotoriMar 2, 20181 votes

Mmk, well I've got almost 150 games now between accounts, that's a fairly decent sample size, I'd say. Enough to weed out "getting lucky."

nelogisMar 2, 20181 votes

These samples are still roughly in the same elo and in the same region with roughly the same playstyle and buildpath

You need more samples and from more people is what I'm saying.

150 is still low to balance out the champ

OnotoriMar 2, 20181 votes

Well, people said Ornn was weak on launch, now look at what happened to him. People said Poppy was weak on launch, same thing that happened to Ornn happened to her. People said Zoe was so absurdly broken, now she has the lowest winrate.

I'm saying to give it time before making kneejerk, asinine changes. If people are making it work, then the rest of the playerbase just needs to catch up. If they're incapable of doing so... so what? Having a skill floor isn't a bad thing.

nelogisMar 2, 20181 votes

People also said to Riot that they should stop buffing Ornn and especially not buff his damage, there was a point where Ornn was balanced and a lot of people were happy before Riot said "nah he needs to be able to take 60% of your HP with W+Auto at lvl 1".

Then they proceeded to nerf everything but the damage and he is just a generic tank now.

Zoe got butchered because she was so inhumanly broken that this couldn't have continued and propably has the most frustrating and toxic experience to play against since ardent meta.

So they gut her and are now trying to figure out what to do with her. They have done that in the past for example with Evelynn and her stun.

I don't remember Poppy that well, just that she was broken at some point and then got olaf'd, was around the time where ADCs got anti olaf'd I think.

The problem with the skill floor argument is that Swain isn't that mechanically challenging. He isn't particularly hard to play in comparison to Ryze, Azir, Kalista.

That's why a 48% WR means that he is just bad right now.

Radiant WukongMar 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Mmk, well I've got almost 150 games now between accounts, that's a fairly decent sample size, I'd say. Enough to weed out "getting lucky."

You just further proved his point, a smurf can win with any build. I had a diamond in my G5 match playing on a smurf account, duo'd with him for 6 games. Won all 6 and he played shit like AP JarvanIV mid and tank Teemo top and jungle with Jayce

OnotoriMar 4, 20181 votes

I'm not a smurf though. Highest I've ever been was G4. :P

Here's my other account: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Aitsuki

4:1, plenty of games played.

SuperspickMar 2, 20182 votes

All of his spells deal damage, all 4 of them including passive and all are/can be used when laning lol. He very much does not have only one spell to lane/deal damage with lmao.

W does require E, E is not too hard to hit when used from maximum range. Cast E and hit it > W right after for an easy fragment.

Ult grants health on cast and grants sustain - resistances are very good on him due to this, slightly better than health.

If unsure, do Bruiser Swain into melee tops. If AD > IBG into Visage into Mask with Phase Rush and Transcendence. If AP > Mask > armor component > Visage > finish armor item.

BladeSteelMar 2, 20181 votes

Don't bother arguing with him he doesn't think the damage on his other abilities matters.

Hay5eedMar 3, 20183 votes

Look if you are laning against a Swain and you regularly get hit by this ability then something is wrong with you.

The projectile is slow and telegraphed and it only roots on the first target impacted on the return. If Swain is using this at max range then that means that you can take a short step towards river and he will have to cover a lot of territory to try to get the root off and while there are some instances where one laners MS is greater than the other it is never by such a large amount.

The only reason you are landing it in lane is because people are not used to it's range yet as it is a little but longer than what people expect. But as soon as people get used to it you are never going to land it. It's like a Blitzhook but worse.

Now I know that I'm a fucking silver, and on top of that a support main, but being a support main means that I lane against a Blitzcrank and Thresh ALOT and sometimes I get Naut and a few other "hook" champs. I have become very used to dodging their hooks and the only way a Thresh or Blitz can hook me would be to make a perfect prediction on which direction I'll move in. Swain's E? Even if he predicts your movement you still have plenty of time to adjust.

BladeSteelMar 2, 20181 votes

All of his abilities do damage....and if he hits the snare his passive also does damage...

Hay5eedMar 2, 20181 votes

Im talking a significant amount of damage that actually counts

BladeSteelMar 2, 20181 votes

All damage counts, especially early. That is why you always want to auto as a mage early in the game. Just because you don't think it matters doesn't mean that it doesn't.

Hay5eedMar 3, 20182 votes

and just because you think that it matters doesn't mean that it does.

Swain has one ability that clears wave, his Q

His E can't really clear wave, it is supposed to be used on Champions, ok that makes sense...except it is a pretty hard ability to land and costs a significant amount of mana...for the difficulty of the spell it doesn't have that much damage on it, but it DOES set you up for you W, which does pack a punch...but that ALSO has a really long CD.

Also consider that his E and his W are the only ways to get soul fragments (other than killing champs or getting assists), which is supposed to help him sustain in lane. His W is impossible to land without his E, and his E is still pretty challenging to land. This makes for a champ that doesn't have much sustain.

BladeSteelMar 3, 20181 votes

Ok I'm done arguing with your Bronze mentality.

Hay5eedMar 4, 20181 votes

So what you are saying is that you concede

BladeSteelMar 4, 20181 votes

Nope just that you have a low Eli mentality and won't take facts to be facts. I won't bother arguing with someone who doesn't want to learn. Discuss things I will do which I offered to discuss that all of his abilities do damage. Just because they are harder to hit than other champions abilities or dont do as much damage doesn't mean that they aren't significant. You however refuse to actually think and just say "no they're insignificant because I say so"

Hay5eedMar 13, 20181 votes

Hey im willing to learn but from playing as him and against him I am not really seeing it.

Now I HAVE seen some fed af swains wreck shop before but even then I am seeing the issues I have listed before.

His E is required to land his W and his E is only landable in lane with a deceptively long range (i.e. the projectile travels so slow that you wouldn't expect it to travel so far). Also the hitbox seems a little bit bigger than the actual animation. Once people get used to that it is going to be very difficult to land his stuff.

Now in team fights Swain can wreck shop, espeically if he has a cc heavy team. The CC helps him land his W which is a devastating ability, but in lane I don't think he is that impressive.

5050BSMar 2, 20181 votes

My issue is that to do damage he has to be in your face and build AP but then he dies at the blink of an eye. So you have to build HP WITH Defs so you can live more then 4s in a fight but then you do no damage.

His Damage should scale with the number of Souls he has collected. Same with his Healing.

Tactfully you dont want to fight a Swain with 5 Souls. If he plays well he will have Souls more often and be strong. If you are not tactful then you have fewer souls and so are weaker.

DaxsxMar 2, 20181 votes

Tactfully you dont want to fight a Swain with 5 Souls

Because fighting him would make you an unrefined knave without an iota of tact?

KING OF MASKSMar 2, 20181 votes

I figured his W was meant to grant vision on use, rather than on hit; maybe that would be too powerful, but Lux has vision on her spells so why not Swain?

Friendly RamMar 4, 20181 votes

shotgun bird has more than enough damage from his 3 damaging abilities and damage passive.

AmWhaleIRLMar 13, 20181 votes

I used to also not like the New Swain just like you. I also didn't like his W, E or R. But after playing a whole lot of him, I've slowly fallen in love with him. And I genuinely hope others do as well. I take him top lane and smash every single matchup, (but that can be attributed to low Elo) then look to make tp plays or split push. Cause if you smash lane as Swain, which I find incredibly easy to do, then the enemy team will have to send at least 3 people to kill you, assuming your mechanics are good. Then your team can make a play elsewhere. And if the enemies don't send anybody or only 1 other person, then you can dive the solo after widdling them down or bait the duo and murder them both. And his E is definitely pretty weird. But because of that I find people just don't know how to dodge it yet, or it's hard to Dodge. Either way I find his E unique and really cool cc ability that's easy for me personally to hit. And then his W. 8/10 times I don't hit this. But it's great as a Blue Trinket. It can also be pretty good to use on people that are running away. They either run through it and take the slow, or move around it which may delay them long enough for a teammate to cc them, or for you to get in range for your Email. And late game, if you hit this thing with Rylais you'll start burning enemy flashes. The slow with Rylais can be devestating if used correctly as well as this thing scales late game to over 600 ap. Now his R. I know people, myself included, liked his old R being able to sustain him super well with respectable damage. So I can definitely see people being upset about losing that, cause this definitely heals less. But if you have 5 soul fragments, which is ridiculously easy for me to get at least, your R burst will almost one-shot adc's and mid alone. Of course you can argue stuff like Locket, Janna, etc. But that's a case of boring shield meta, not the Swain rework being bad.

I feel like a lot of people, my past self included, just aren't even giving this a shot. But I eventually did give him a shot and now I'm in love with the New Swain. He can be really fun and good when used well. Just give him a try guys 🙂