a few ideas for fixing stealth

lolipopevelynn··1 votes·314 views
  1. more stealth detection options or revert pinks back to what they use to be.

  2. periodically show **barely noticeable **purple outlines/silhouettes of a stealthed champion. this outline/silhouettes will either be shown periodically like once every 2 seconds for 1 second or it will be shown when a stealthed champion gets in a certain range. the outline/silhouette would be very faint itself, so you would have to pay very close attention to notice it.

  3. allow non DoT champion skills to break champion stealth for a few seconds. this goes hand and hand with the 2nd option. if you know where a champion is then simply throwing a spell will break that champions stealth for a few seconds or break it permanently.

adding these changes in will actually allow stealth itself and stealthed champions to be buffed as it adds a ton of counterplay to the mechanic. Longer stealth durations and even a true stealth on eves passive would be possible again.

4 Comments

Masked Lunatic1 votes

Two things: item 3364 anditem 2043. Any more and invisibility will be rendered obsolete because then no go zones could be established and using invisibility to escape/ gank / blindside an unwary foe as Twitch for example would mean death as then cc could be used so much more effectively and can be easily predicted (especially for champs which rely on stealth to do their thing).

If spells / attacks could break stealth wouldnt that just kill Teemo off completely seeing as he relies on being able to maintain his composure while stealthed (take some hits and still be hidden for an attack). He'd also suffer as he wouldn't be able to stand in the brush next to someone because he has a periodical outline alerting people to his existence (adding true stealth to this means that you've just aimed to make a change to revert another change - it feels kinda pointless). Spells breaking stealth is a bad idea seeing as it then becomes useless when trying to maneuver to kill someone with lots of aoe especially when ganking a fight.

Also what you're asking is to implement a change which requires a plethora of more changes in order to work (it might even push champs with invisibility right out of viability - as it could become outright useless). And as many people have stated before me a vision ward / oracle lens trinket is sufficient to defend against invisible champs.

Finally stealth is a tool for deception and only people prepared for such deception will be able to stop and counter it - my motto to stealth

Feel free to expand your point further (i find ideas interesting to say the least) as I am not infallible are are susceptible to bias (even if I try not to).

lolipopevelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Masked Lunatic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElI7ahWz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-02T18:24:17.874+0000)

Two things: item 3364 anditem 2043. Any more and invisibility will be rendered obsolete because then no go zones could be established and using invisibility to escape/ gank / blindside an unwary foe as Twitch etc would mean death as then cc could be used so much more effectively and can be easily predicted especially champs which rely on stealth to do their thing. If spells / attacks could break stealth wouldnt that just kill Teemo off completely seeing as he relies on being able to maintain his composure while stealthed instead he wouldn't be able to stand in the brush next to someone because he has a periodical outline alerting people to his existence. Spells breaking stealth is a bad idea seeing as it then becomes useless when trying to maneuver to kill someone with lots of aoe especially when ganking a fight.

Also what you're asking is to implement a change which requires a plethora of more changes in order to work (it might even push champs with invisibility right out of viability - as it could become outright useless). And as many people have stated before me a vision ward / oracle lens trinket is sufficient to defend against invisible champs.

Finally stealth is a tool for deception and only people prepared for such deception will be able to stop and counter it - my motto to stealth

teemo is getting a buff to his passive to where he will not break his stealth while moving in bushes. most teemos hide in bushes anyway so its a nice buff to him. not that anyone cares what happens to teemo to begin with.

spells breaking stealth is very good counterplay to the stealth mechanic. it also makes the stealthed player actually think about a good time on when to go in or not to go in. the main problem people have with stealth is lack of ways to actually detect it. eve and shaco is a perfect example. it also wouldnt make stealth useless because people refuse to pay attention anyway. there were many times where ive walked over PINK WARDS as eve and still managed to get double kills off bot lane because people do not pay attention.

also, if these changes go in place then it would mean buffs for stealth such as longer duration or true stealth on eves passive(removing the detection ring). like you said, stealth would be made weaker if current stealth mechanics stayed the same with these changes, so the obvious direction would be to finally buff stealth or buff the champion using stealth instead of nerfing them to the ground constantly. that is the point.

Masked Lunatic1 votes

No as i said you'd only be creating a change and then having to add another change to revert the change (for some champions). It doesn't matter if these changes occur because then riot would have to overhaul all of the champions using stealth for very little overall change and that would just be a waste of their time and resources. In the most recent serious overhaul: Ap Items - it did not affect very much in the sense of gameplay it just gave ap champs a nice selection of item builds so that they could build some ap while getting some side benefits instead of being noticeably weaker than heavy ap stacking mages.

Also in your second paragraph you stated that you got a double kill because they weren't paying attention <------- This is not a gameplay error just an error in the player. You can't go around saying imma nerf this and / or give much more counterplay to something if it's just players being oblivious. as i already said stealth is a tool to deceive without this deception stealth is useless: it's what gives shaco his presence it's what allows kha time to reset or juke it's what gives rengar an ability to engage without being cc'd to the ground (and don't pull the: rengar has an indicator - thats due to his ult being powerful- mobility and burst + ferocity build) and finally once again it's twitch's only somewhat reliable tactical tool. You saying people won't pay attention anyway is a very bad reason to do what you ask because if players DO actually pay attention (The LCS for example or hell even just general ranked), guess who gets cut down? champs with invisibility.

In regards to the teemo argument I was using him as an example I am already aware of the buff to his stealth.- No need to bring anti teemo prejudices here. Also teemo's shrooms require stealth and the whole point of his shrooms is that there is usually too many to be completely countered (it is his ult after all). If your changes occur and more stealth defying options exist then this would be made obsolete or require yet another change.

Here's a good point what is the point in having longer stealth durations if it's gonna be completely countered?

Besides haven't you heard / seen at riot developing a singular item for this? The mandrake ward which is in development is a sound ward which creates a noise when someone passes it invisible or not (doesn't give you vision though).

You do realize that anti stealth mechanics (primarily the ability disabling stealth) will screw up anyone who uses stealth mid fight i.e. someone to has the tact to keep their stealth for use during a fight.

By making skillshots / abilities break stealth you have completely removed the viability of this ploy, as stealth is usually used as a way to pull off sneaky plays. Once again if someone is smart enough to get either of the two items i mentioned before in a pre-meditated attempt to counter a champion who they know has stealth they can usually catch them for example for a laner with stealth you just throw the ward down /use the trinket when they stealth and viola you have vision of them and can thus counter them for a jungler for example eve: you place these wards to counteract her not to mention she has a detection radius.

Don't provide ideas that require excessive work for very little change as it's wasted effort that could be applied elsewhere. Ignorant people (people who miss you even when revealed) will always play that way unless they learn otherwise (thus they must make a mistake and learn to overcome it as there are very reliable ways to counter invisibility). I very much dislike play which occurs around other people making a mistake (it's so unreliable and has no skill whatsoever attached to it) because if players play at the top of their form it's far more exciting not just some fool being unaware and then getting nuked for it.

Oh this is one hell of a long post... Sorry bout that.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

No as i said you'd only be creating a change and then having to add another change to revert the change (for some champions)

riot does this all of the time, its a standard for them. why should this be any different? the change is meant to help stealth champions so they can safely be buffed without being problematic. that is the entire point. they even said themselves that they want to fix stealth in a way that will help stealth champions be strong again rather than constantly nerfing them everytime a item or change is added to the game that makes them stronger. rengar, eve, shaco should all come to mind. shaco is not going to be buffed specifically because of his stealth, rengar isnt going to be buffed specifically because of his stealth, and eve is the same. these champions can only be nerfed. stealth changes will make it to where they can safely be buffed because there are many ways to counter stealth.

so basically that IS the point of stealth changes. to give players enough opportunity to counter stealth so that the champion who has stealth can be buffed. it also wont make stealth completely useless like you think. the outlines/silhouettes will be barely noticeable unless you have good map awareness and a good eye. think of it like HoTs or SC2 stealth.

Here's a good point what is the point in having longer stealth durations if it's gonna be completely countered?

like i said, it wont be completely countered. the outlines will be barely noticeable and you still have to land a skill which can be dodged by the stealthed player. it will only be non DoT champion skills that disable it, items wont be able to. the champ would also still be untargetable while stealthed so by default it will have to be a skill shot that disables the stealth. damage from amu W, shyv W, udyr R, mundo W, etc wont beable to break it.

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