"I just got outplayed" is healthy, "this champion is bullshit" is not.

The Deckowner·Apr 17, 2017·29 votes·2,248 views

I just got outplayed: Taliya using her W preemptively, predicting Khazix's jump and knocking him back mid air. Outplayed. blitzcrank/thresh flash hook predicting the enemy dash/flash and grabs them, that is also an outplay.

This champion is bullshit: Leblanc presses W to get away, now you are in a lose-lose situation where if u chase her she W back, if you dont chase her she walk away. What worse? You baited lb to w back by throwing a skillshot at her then predicted that w and used your gap closer to her W portal, only to see her RW and get away easily while your gapcloser has much longer cd. That is bullshit.

We need to promo champion who when played well makes enemy feel like they got outplayed, and change champions who mskes enemy feel like the champion is straight up bullshit.

37 Comments

xJLx MCHammerApr 17, 201710 votes

that LB out played you

The way I see it, a kit giving you mobility, dashes, or free blinks certainly gives you room to outplay

Kits that are automatic, i.e. A Yas getting free crit and armor pen is not outplayed. There was nothing you can do when a gragras ulted and he proced his ult

The DeckownerApr 17, 20173 votes

a kit giving you mobility, dashes, or free blinks certainly gives you room to outplay

mind collaborate?

JmmanApr 17, 20179 votes

I'm think what about the kits without Mobility.... guess they don't have room to outplay or a lot less.

xJLx MCHammerApr 17, 20178 votes

{quoted}

I'm think what about the kits without Mobility.... guess they don't have room to outplay or a lot less.

Clearly, they don't

What can you do to outplay a Zed going from one shadow location to the other? Your kit, IE like mundo does not give you the option of jumping on from location to the other

For mundo, outplaying is dodging Q's, flashing, and landing Q's.

A kit like lB is much more versitile

LankPantsApr 18, 20178 votes

Conversely it's much more impressive when someone like a Mundo dodges every skillshot and escapes at low HP values, because his kit doesn't actually give him the room to do that. It almost feels like it's LB's god given right to not get hit by skillshots and that getting hit means you're misplaying far more than dodging means you're outplaying.

SpoofghoulApr 18, 20171 votes

Perhaps, but at some point an excess of tools, in this case mobility, also means nobody gets to outplay you, in which case it becomes a game of surviving till you fuck up which isn't an outplay it's you making a missplay

This situation occurs a lot with overloaded champions

They have triple someone else's tool set and can always outplay them while they cannot be outplayed themselves but rather they missplay and get punished for it

That is why a lot of these stacked kits aren't healthy because they themselves don't allow you to outplay them

Mobility is arguably the worst offender for these situations because it allows the mobile one to pretty much avoid you until they hold the advantage and then decide to go in and you cannot escape them because they are more mobile Not letting them get the advantage isn't an option either because they start out with 1 The ability to out rotate you.

Another really bad offender is very binary and simplistic kits when they are overtuned since they can simply outstat you and often innateley lack counterplay For example if irelia point and clicks on you dashes in your face and then rightclicks How will you outplay being clicked on ? Please elaborate.

MunchCrunchLunchApr 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm think what about the kits without Mobility.... guess they don't have room to outplay or a lot less.

they don't. even if you know exactly what they going to do. you can't do anything. there are a lot of possibilities to mobility. using them and not using them. thats two. however the direction just opens many other possibilities.

Troll for TrumpApr 18, 201711 votes

What the "OP hypermobility champ" player sees:

"OMG LC$ #BIGPLAYS I'm a Faker God"

What his enemy sees:

https://www.getdigital.eu/web/getdigital/gfx/products/__generated__resized/1100x1100/BullshitButton-main.jpg

TyroneWatermelonApr 18, 20171 votes

It's an outplay but an outplay with zero effort and brain usage unlike OP's examples

JuhnChanApr 18, 20177 votes

I don't care what you guys think Leblanc is actually fucking hard to play.

item 3146 makes her a little bit strong right now but guess who is even stronger than that? Katarina .

At least Leblanc has to sit there and hold a leash while your timer ticks away, or wait 1.5 seconds arbitrarily in order to do any real damage.

Katarina ? Nah, 3 blinks + 3 MS buffs, pretend to leave then dagger + blink, dodge a skillshot or three like The Flash then blink in again, ignite and you're 100-0 in 2 seconds. Or if she decides things are going sour she can actually leave and it's okay because you're already half health and she has no mana costs. She'll be back in about 12 seconds.

But I guess Kat's besides the point. What Leblanc gains in mobility, she loses in up-front damage. If you look at any Leblanc kill, notice that it takes her the full 1.5 seconds to do any real damage, and even then she almost never is able to 100-0 so she has to try again later (unless fed af but then again not many would be unable). If she misses her E, she dun goofed for real. If she uses her W as an escape instead of a AoE passive proc, you're going to be seeing her contribute less than one kill most of the time. If she misses E AND uses W as an escape, your whole team is done fucked. She will be doing absolutely 0 damage that teamfight.

Sexy Jack RabbitApr 18, 20171 votes

Only Kats W buffs her MS I thought?

DVVNApr 18, 20174 votes

When there are champions like Fizz who have very easy to use out play mechanics, and the ability to just build item 3078 with tank items (and legitimately destroy your team) its hard not to have the attitude of "this champion is bullshit."

PoskeApr 18, 20173 votes

Le blanc is at 40% winrate globally and there are still crybabys like you

I bet you are a FKING garen main you digusting pleb

Glory to GodApr 18, 20173 votes

Chogath : 7k HP, 200 armor and MR, 400 AP Ashe : Silly me, look at those outplaying stats!

OHminusApr 18, 20172 votes

Mind telling me how you get those stats?

Big LincolnApr 18, 20174 votes

silly you for not buying item 3153 item 3036

FantasySniperApr 18, 20171 votes

item 3006 item 3153 item 3031 item 3085 item 3036 item 3071

What Cho?

The DeckownerApr 18, 20171 votes

tell me how to get 400ap on chogath with 2 items, because u need 3 items to get 200 armor and mr.

Critmaster GarenApr 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Oto,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkssrjF4,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-04-18T12:06:05.263+0000)

: 7k HP, 200 armor and MR, 400 AP : Silly me, look at those outplaying stats!

its funny that you bring up ashe who only has her ult that can really be outplayed herself. firing your w thats the width of the lane, right clicking someone and passively slowing him + activating your attack steroid isnt exactly a big outplay either. in every regard, shes more stat check than chogath.

look at it like this. all of those stats are worth shit if chogath doesnt hit his w or q.

so yea, if you didnt dodge those and he predicted your movement and got into melee range by ccing you, you got outplayed. his abilities arent hard to dodge even for low mobility champions.

Annie on the other hand would have been a better example. who really ever feels outplayed by her pressing summoner 4 and dropping an instant cast ranged aoe stun with burst on your head?

LeeSin is another example. his combos need practise to pull off clean. but lee sin doesnt outplay. because you as his opponent dont get to play against him. its only up to him if he messes up his combo, not for you to avoid it. because you cant avoid him just being faster than you, and flashing into position for a r + q,q under your turret.

Big LincolnApr 18, 20173 votes

you know what's bullshit is Trundle pressing R and then beating you to death no matter who you are

DUDE BROApr 18, 20172 votes

Yasuo Riven "Outplayed"

Skins ProjectApr 18, 20173 votes

Thing is with riven it normally is outplay....

She doesn't scale that well...

It's all snowball.

Riven isn't actually considered easy.... She just has animation canceling and a high ass skill cap which makes people salty when a dedicated riven main is able to do what they can't.. Then they start spamming that they're abusing op picks....

FortisDominusApr 18, 20172 votes

even with the recent build changes I think LB is still weak in soloq and a lower tier pick in competitive. Hard to sympathize with you hating because of that fact friend

MysterQApr 18, 20171 votes

At first I thought I was going to be like, some champs really are BS with the amount of free get-out-of-anything skills. But I am glad you already mentioned it.

Sure some mobility will allow for outplays. But (in low tiers at least), it is just Oh Hell, press [X] and now I am gone. You still have to know when to use it sure, but those skills can be pretty skillless sometimes.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 18, 20171 votes

I mean, if a champ has their mobility AND damage/utility on the same move and theyre just using it to escape, thats a win as long as you didnt use an ult to force that or something. Youre making them waste their power budget.

The DeckownerApr 18, 20171 votes

With the example I listed, ever since LB rework, her W does basically no dmg and is only a waveclear(with q) and mobility tool.

KONO RUBICK DAApr 18, 20171 votes

yasuo aiming with tornado and ultying is outplay

yi pressing E+R and AA you to death is not

learn the difference

MachiavellinApr 18, 20171 votes

You'd have to be over extended at some point to even allow that to happen. If you don't over extend. Hes forced to just farm jungle camps. Then hes not on the map and you can take objectives. Then he sits their with a kill bounty and lose's the game. Go figure how playing objectives makes every combat oriented champion useless. Just like how everyone complains about katrina, but she literally is useless outside of fighting. How often do you see Katrina get the first turret? Very rare.

KONO RUBICK DAApr 18, 20171 votes

wait, there is a situation where yi uses something else than AA and point and click long range jump? didn't know this, i guess he can outplay you then

MachiavellinApr 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Negan fanboy124,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkssrjF4,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-04-18T14:03:38.156+0000)

wait, there is a situation where yi uses something else than AA and point and click long range jump? didn't know this, i guess he can outplay you then

I'd be lying if i said I didn't get out played by a master Yi, but its usally someone on my teams fault. Whether me or another person, that really sets him up for his patent multi kills.

LexyyApr 18, 20171 votes

This champions is bullshit - Yi

SarcasticShepardApr 18, 20171 votes

How about blaming riot for bad design? Is that healthy?

DarkHeadgearApr 18, 20171 votes

This has to do with the player on the losing end. It has nothing to do with champion balance. If a 7/0 AP burst mage bursts you 100-0, that is healthy. If they were not able to burst you down 100-0, something is wrong with burst mages and they would never be played.

Sexy Jack RabbitApr 18, 20171 votes

LB is kind of a weird pick for this I think. Since the much needed damage nerfs she's actually healthier. Alternatively what is so unhealthy about this new LB Build?

The DeckownerApr 18, 20171 votes

the gunblade lb is unhealthy because she can miss every chain and kill you with just Q, gunblade active and lichbane procs.

Also leblanc "outplay" you by being leblanc and you being a less mobile champion, which is bs.

Teridax68Apr 18, 20171 votes

I think an ongoing issue is that, in the heat of the moment, it's very difficult for many players to see their own mistakes when they lose, so what would otherwise be an outplay ends up being labeled toxic or exploitative. This is particularly true of champions the player is unfamiliar with, including new or reworked champions. Blitzcrank is a good example of a champion who toes that line, because his hooks can feel very fair when you're the one landing them (you need to predict the enemy's movement and need to position properly), but can feel totally bullshit when you're on the receiving end (you get hooked once and you're dead). Generally, it's useful to analyze the costs and tools needed on both ends for the outplay to happen, as well as the overall options for both parties, but that's still not going to stop a lot of players from complaining on here that X is unfair because they just lost to them.

The DeckownerApr 18, 20171 votes

The way I see it is that outplay and bullshit should be differentiated based on how the difficulty and consistancy of performibg such outplay.

Lets make a senerio here, say A is playing Velkoz, B is playing Ahri.

For A to outplay B, A need to predict B's movement in order to land skillshots(really hard with ahri's movementspeed buffs and ult), keep distance from B since melee range velkoz is a piece of deadmeat(very hard since ahri is.mobile), and use E to CC B(mediocore difficulty wuth decent ping).

For B to outplay A, A need to land skillshots(a lot easier since A has no mobility and Ahri W autotarget), enclose distance from A(triple flash R very easy) and use E to CC A(again A has no mobility).

So this seems to me that pre6 it's more or less a skill match up, but once Ahri gets 6 the outplay protential for Velkoz is a lot less than that of Ahri. Which means Ahri doesn't need to outplay velkoz to kill velkoz, she can just do standard or even perform below average and she can still kill velkoz. This inherit difference in outplay protential makes certain match ups quite bullshit.