Lulu is fine (as supp) if you max E first

Sugar Momma·Jan 13, 2017·3 votes·1,641 views

plays like somewhere between and when you play her this way. She has a bit more utility/peel than Karma, but less damage. And she has more damage than Janna, but a bit less utility/peel.

The best way to max her right now is to go E > W > Q honestly (as Q slows for 2 seconds at all levels, and the CD doesn't go down with levels). A lot of players take a fairly tanky rune/mastery setup and some even start .

In light of this, 's buffs on the PBE seem kinda unnecessary, as I don't think they'll help her support much. Trying to make her a poke support is sorta futile because , , , and all offer better poke; and if they don't, then is OP (since she offers a lot more utility than any of these champs). However, the current buffs will help her mid/top quite a bit...I fear she'll become a staple in mid/top again, then get nerfed. And, once again, the nerf(s) will hurt her support more than mid/top.

18 Comments

ChaddyFantomeJan 14, 20173 votes

Listen to this man. Mastery level 7 lulu player with an innumerable amount of games on her. The mistake people make with her is maxing and spamming Q.

Max your E. It gives you more consistent damage and shielding. Max W second because the boost you gt from Q isn't worth it as you only increase base and aren't guaranteed to hit it anyway, while W increases Polymorph duration and increases the Atk speed it gives and the duration.

From there, Build item 3504 and shield/heal like everyone else does. synergizes with her kit so hard t was practically made for her. It was at the bare minimum directly inspired from her E and passive in mind.

Sugar MommaJan 14, 20172 votes

Mastery level 7 as well on her :D And I agree with you entirely.

I just don't want to see her buffed and then she's too strong again and gets overnerfed. She's in a decent place right now. Even solo lanes she does well.

I have been wondering though: Do shield/heal boosts and Windspeaker's work on Lulu 's ult? I've been taking TLD sometimes because I wasn't sure.

LuIuJan 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sugar Momma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkoEoBAj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-14T00:34:07.835+0000)

Mastery level 7 as well on her :D And I agree with you entirely.

I just don't want to see her buffed and then she's too strong again and gets overnerfed. She's in a decent place right now. Even solo lanes she does well.

I have been wondering though: Do shield/heal boosts and Windspeaker's work on 's ult? I've been taking TLD sometimes because I wasn't sure.

No, Windspeaker's and those item bonusses only work on her shield(her ulti grants health but isn't a heal).

ChaddyFantomeJan 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sugar Momma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkoEoBAj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-14T00:34:07.835+0000)

Mastery level 7 as well on her :D And I agree with you entirely.

I just don't want to see her buffed and then she's too strong again and gets overnerfed. She's in a decent place right now. Even solo lanes she does well.

I have been wondering though: Do shield/heal boosts and Windspeaker's work on 's ult? I've been taking TLD sometimes because I wasn't sure.

Lulu's ulti is a MAX HP buff as opposed to a heal. Like Renekton ulti or Gnar Passive. Thus it does not count as a heal and does not proc Windspeakers.

I find Windspeakers more useful on her as Tlords legit stops being useful when you leave laning phase since as support you don't build much damage. Tlords in general falls off mid game imo so it doubles down when you as a support aren't even getting damage items to help it keep up.

If you really wanna play a harass and poke lane and you deem it necessary to win the game is the only reason i would run it over windspeakers.

With Windspeakers, you can block literally any harass spell in botlane completely and still have shield left over afterwards.

At max rank with 45% CDR, Lulu's E shield CD literally becomes lower than the duration of the shield itself. This plus item 3107 and item 3190 already more than justify it on her imo.

Especially since she synergizes with item 3504 so much as is.

Modern SupportJan 14, 20173 votes

Lulu doesn't need buffs riot should wait until the redemption nerfs to see which supports need to be buffed.

E max is not the correct playstyle nor is starting coin in most cases since your auto procs 2 stacks of spellthief

The correct skill order is 3 points q, max w, max e, max r, max q OR 3 points e, max w, max e, max r, max q

Points in Q are not useless it helps you have lane pressure since you can damage minions + champs with it instead of only 1 champion (E max)

She has matchups which consist of Karma, Zyra, and Nami

Wind Speakers and Censer are not that great to take on her in most lanes since the only things that proc it are E (single target), Locket (high CD), and Redemption (high CD) [The R does not proc windspeaker since it's bonus health]

Supports like Karma and Janna don't have to expend the ability to hit their sources of CC in lulu's case it's her Q (slow)

You only get censer if certain conditions are met such as 1.] Does your ADC have runaans? (runaans has strong synergy with censer) 2.] How much burst does the enemy team have? (If they have a lot of champions that can dive or burst your carry then it's probably not the game to get censer)

Lulu has one of the best CCs in the game which is Polymorph (2.5s) point click CC that reduces base MS and makes them not be able to auto, use abilities, and use summoners

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=modern+support

LuIuJan 14, 20171 votes

That's indeed how she should be played, but she's still underpowered. The damage Lulu does is quite underwhelming for the amount of mana it costs. Plus she's squishy and has a low base movementspeed, meaning she can easily get punished. Don't get me wrong, you can do very well with Lulu - but if you had the same amount of skill/luck playing lets say Karma, you'd have a better time.

Sugar MommaJan 14, 20171 votes

I appreciate your insight tremendously. I like the concept of running 3 points in Q then E > W > Q. I do that on Karma a lot (though on her I usually - but not always, for example if the enemy team has a lot of melee threats - will finish maxing Q before W). On Lulu it makes sense to max W second. I can't believe I didn't think of this, given how similar the two champions are (and having mastery 7 on both).

I'll have to try it out. I think it will be the best balance between not falling off mid-game and still having decent pressure early-game. Thanks!

WinterkillJan 14, 20172 votes

The problem is bot lane now has APC and supports as APC going into bot lane and dominating the lane. For champions like Lulu, Karma, and Sona . . . they need to have somewhat of a lane presence to contend with all of this out of meta garbage coming into bot lane. Riot needs to fix the way APC are playing in botlane or they need to fix enchanters and give them more options to contend with this new thing.

Athenes LuluJan 14, 20171 votes

So, shittier version of Janna?

No wonder why half of the community complains about Lulu being "weak".

ReZisT LustJan 14, 20171 votes

Ult is immediate life instead of an over time heal :3

Sugar MommaJan 14, 20173 votes

Not shittier version of Janna . She may be slightly worse but that's only because Janna is so strong.

Lulu offers more offensive utility than Janna and she does have a bit more damage, even if you max Q last.

Athenes LuluJan 14, 20171 votes

The thing is the playstyle you are aiming for is basically that.

People really should be maxing W first since maxing E is basically asking to run OOM very quickly, disregard "Q kiting", and wonder why Lulu can't do much.

ChaddyFantomeJan 14, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkoEoBAj,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-14T00:43:31.146+0000)

The thing is the playstyle you are aiming for is basically that.

People really should be maxing W first since maxing E is basically asking to run OOM very quickly, disregard "Q kiting", and wonder why Lulu can't do much.

I don't like maxing W because it locks you into having only 1 use.

Polymorph is useful at all stages of the game. Only reason to max it is the attack speed and the polymorph duration, which isn't really needed in lane.

I find it too situational.

Q slow doesn't get better throughout maxing it and is too inconsistent for poke in lane when maxed. E on the other hand will block harass and give you free consistent poke when you use it on enemies. You give up less by maxing E over Q and W.

ChaddyFantomeJan 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkoEoBAj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-14T00:17:30.154+0000)

So, shittier version of Janna?

No wonder why half of the community complains about Lulu being "weak".

Janna can't click on the enemy Yasuo and make them a cupcake that can't do anything.
Janna can't make Jinx an unstoppable madwomen shooting rockets at 20 a second while running all over like an uncontrollable monster.
Janna can't Turn Vayne into twice the treat at the press of a Button by giving her 65% attack speed for free.
Janna can't make Kogmaw into a bulimic monstrosity artillery cannon.
Janna can't give your tank an AOE Slow and make them huge or turn any teammate into an initiator.

Janna has her strength and it is peel. Lulu has her strength and it is buffing teammates and disabling enemies.

The two are hardly the same and Janna hardly invalidates Lulu.

You get Janna when you wanna keep people off your teammates. you get Lulu when you wanna turn teammates into beasts.

Modern SupportJan 14, 20172 votes

This is a bad example Lulu W has 2 uses (AS buff & Speed up or Point & Click disabling Summoner Spells, Auto Attacks, and Abilities.

Yasuo should not be getting hit by polymorph either since his W blocks it.

Lulu has a strong lane phase which janna lacks she can only really buff her ADC.

In the midgame she transitions into a buffer.

Lulu E also gives true vision so she counters Vayne, Kha'zix, Shaco, etc

ChaddyFantomeJan 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Modern Support,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkoEoBAj,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-01-14T01:12:39.004+0000)

This is a bad example Lulu W has 2 uses (AS buff & Speed up or Point & Click disabling Summoner Spells, Auto Attacks, and Abilities.

Except the attack speed buff is incredibly negligeable in lane as a max in comparison to the shielding and damage E provides and for the purposes of lane phase, does all of those things without needing to be maxed. It is perfectly usable to those ends with just 1 or 2 points in it at this point in the game, so maxing first it is a net waste of your overall effectiveness.

Yasuo should not be getting hit by polymorph either since his W blocks it.

Its called positioning and baiting out the windwall? you don't just walk up to him and press W.

Lulu has a strong lane phase which janna lacks she can only really buff her ADC.

Imo Janna's laning phase is strong in the sense that she does what she needs to do very well and is very powerful at it, as opposed to dealing a lot of damage. I'd actually say Lulu's laning phase is weaker than Janna's because Lulu is a lot more vulnerable in lane than her.

Low Base MS along with moderate Range on autos and spells unless she wants to dump her whole mana pool constantly for Qs.

A Janna that doesn't get a strong initiation of kill isn't really indicative of being weak, as that is what she wants, same as Soraka, to keep their lane partner safe and protect them through he lane phase.

In the midgame she transitions into a buffer.

Lulu E also gives true vision so she counters Vayne, Kha'zix, Shaco, etc

At least we have something we agree on. her true sight is an aspect that very often goes underlooked and appreciated. Not only is it effective against those champs, but anyone that leaves range of sight by running into FoW or unwarded brush.

this makes her effective with champs like Caitlyn for the purpose of her Ultimate.

LuIuJan 14, 20171 votes

The changes to her Q in 6.16 did kinda open up the option to be a shield-bot, yes. But even if you play her that way she still sucks*, Janna is pretty much better in every way. Yes, Lulu herself can do more damage than Janna; but Janna has ALOT of indirect damage thanks to the bonus AD on her shield. They've now already reverted the Q AP scaling buff on the PBE, hopefully they come up with something better. #makesupportlulugreatagain

*Below avarage.

ChaddyFantomeJan 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The changes to her Q in 6.16 did kinda open up the option to be a shield-bot, yes. But even if you play her that way she still sucks*, Janna is pretty much better in every way. Yes, Lulu herself can do more damage than Janna; but Janna has ALOT of indirect damage thanks to the bonus AD on her shield.

which disappears once the shield is popped. The DPS Lulu provides with her passive and W attack speed doesn't care about the shield.

They've now already reverted the Q AP scaling buff on the PBE, hopefully they come up with something better. #makesupportlulugreatagain

The thing they need to do to "fix" Lulu imho is to give her Passive some form of Utility/debilitating effect on enemies and revert the change to her Q and make it just do less damage to minions so her Q harass isn't a complete joke.

I stopped maxing Q back in S4 when the slow scaling was removed anyway but it at least was decent before. Her Q is basically primarily a item 3303 proc farming tool and nothing more atm.