True, %, pen, and shred dmg would be OK, but those with it do tons of normal dmg and heal/shield

TotalJerk··18 votes·9,783 views

These stats exist to make a champion better able to kill tanks without making them overkill squishies. The thing that makes a lot of the champions that have this shit frustrating is that they often are able to do so much regular damage that they still manage to overkill squishies if they get even slightly ahead or are allowed to scale. People understand that Master Yi, Fiora, and Urgot with Cleaver can melt a tank, but it doesn't seem fair that they are simultaneously able to do that AND kill your carries just as well as any other assassin or bruiser can.

You buy a lot of damage? They nuke you, then heal off what damage you managed to do to them, staying in the fight. You buy a lot of defense? They shred you and you do so little damage that they outheal it.

  • Sustain
  • high damage
  • Strong anti-defense stats

These three things are all okay by themselves, but when you give a champion easy access to all three of them, it creates something that feels extremely frustrating to deal with when it is strong. A large majority of the champions that are the most complained about tend to be good at all three. Remember back when Vayne was doing tumble crits for 75% of the other ADC's health bar? It wasn't just bullshit that she had % HP true damage, it was bullshit because she had it while also bursting carries and drain tanking with BotRK later on if you didn't chain-CC and focus her before she could get more than a couple shots off. The current worst example is Riven with Death's Dance and Conqueror. She deals tons of flat damage while also healing tons of fucking damage and melting your tanks. When a champion is like this, the counterplay is often basically "don't even let them play League of Legends" because you lose if you let them interact with you in any interesting way, which is not fun for either side.

7 Comments

MysticShaker7 votes

I still remember when true dmg was something special, unique nobody has. Nowadays true damage is common like weed in center of Amsterdam/Prague. We already have lord dominik with 40% total armor pene. Tanks already fel weak even before conqueror dunno why Rito add true dmg in runes.

Destello Azul1 votes

{quoted}

...dunno why Rito add true dmg in runes.

Because they are dumb. They think: More damage and less chance of survive/scape = more fun.

ChiefDovahkin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Destello Azul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjTZdQdo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-03T22:30:37.681+0000)

Because they are dumb. They think: More damage and less chance of survive/scape = more fun.

It's because NOT having a way to kill tanks creates the same problem. All bruisers would be completely useless and their builds will be tied to BC which is honestly a shit tier item. Too expensive, meh stats, only like 25% armor pen after hitting enough times to get full shred. However, stacking Ad, 10% true damage, and 10% healing seems like they just can't pick a direction with a sustained damage rune. The reason this has been so frustrating is because all the changes to conq haven't really affected pick diversity, build path, or team comps. The champs that used it well before like jax/trynd/yorick still use it well and other champs have picked it up as that much free healing + true damage works on any cheez pick who has built in sustain.

There was a tank meta a while back and it was probably the worst meta ever. Every single person would just build sunfire + ibg and be completely unkillable while dealing ridiculous amounts of damage. Adcs were completely useless through the entire game except for vayne (not that this is unusual). Supports didn't know what to do bc it wasn't rewarding to peel your adc. Jgs couldn't put anyone behind bc tanks can scale efficiently even with a low income. Even right now, certain tanks like Poppy and Ornn have been buffed to a point where they deal pretty ridiculous single target damage while building straight tank and being team fight oriented. Into a lot of matchups, these champs are already super safe and scale quite well. With how good the adc state is, this is a pretty decent time to pickup a tank pick. IMO the real reason tanks are weak currently is because of the amount of kite in the game and the amount of damage that comes out of mid lane. It's pretty tough to counterbuild a team where their ad and ap mid are doing well. Even harder if you're playing into a kite champ mid like Ahri/Vlad/Vik/Vel/etc. I've played a lot of games where I got slapped by a full armor build tank who then just gets shredded mid game by the amount of magic damage they suddenly face. Clearly there could be a lot of stipulations to this note, but it happens a lot.

Ash Lockheart3 votes

{quoted}

These stats exist to make a champion better able to kill tanks without making them overkill squishies. The thing that makes a lot of the champions that have this shit frustrating is that they often are able to do so much regular damage that they still manage to overkill squishies if they get even slightly ahead or are allowed to scale. People understand that Master Yi, Fiora, and Urgot with Cleaver can melt a tank, but it doesn't seem fair that they are simultaneously able to do that AND kill your carries just as well as any other assassin or bruiser can.

You buy a lot of damage? They nuke you, then heal off what damage you managed to do to them, staying in the fight. You buy a lot of defense? They shred you and you do so little damage that they outheal it.

  • Sustain
  • high damage
  • Strong anti-defense stats

These three things are all okay by themselves, but when you give a champion easy access to all three of them, it creates something that feels extremely frustrating to deal with when it is strong. A large majority of the champions that are the most complained about tend to be good at all three. Remember back when Vayne was doing tumble crits for 75% of the other ADC's health bar? It wasn't just bullshit that she had % HP true damage, it was bullshit because she had it while also bursting carries and drain tanking with BotRK later on if you didn't chain-CC and focus her before she could get more than a couple shots off. The current worst example is Riven with Death's Dance and Conqueror. She deals tons of flat damage while also healing tons of fucking damage and melting your tanks. When a champion is like this, the counterplay is often basically "don't even let them play League of Legends" because you lose if you let them interact with you in any interesting way, which is not fun for either side.

There is one thing you missed with your points.

If tanks become bad picks for what ever meta we have because of how easy they are to melt down in team fights then you making a large chunk of the champs to select from removed, and you end up with less choices to choose from when picking your team.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ash Lockheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjTZdQdo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-03T03:53:11.857+0000)

There is one thing you missed with your points.

If tanks become bad picks for what ever meta we have because of how easy they are to melt down in team fights then you making a large chunk of the champs to select from removed, and you end up with less choices to choose from when picking your team.

It's almost like what happens in every single meta. A bunch of champions are considered bad and whatever is meta is considered the only viable picks... with some exceptions here and there

Ash Lockheart3 votes

{quoted}

It's almost like what happens in every single meta. A bunch of champions are considered bad and whatever is meta is considered the only viable picks... with some exceptions here and there

The biggest difference though when it comes to tanks is there is no build path when the meta shifts. Tanks are limited. While all other roles can change up there items to help counter the meta shift. Tanks suffer more because there items are very limited.

Pika Fox1 votes

We're still complaining about a melee squishy hyper carry dealing damage in 2019?

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