#No, no they're not.
They're still mandatory in every single game. They're still the best class in the game. They have been since the game was made.
Until ranged ADCs are not the standard bot lane, you cannot begin to claim that ranged ADCs are in a poor spot. Even then, they still might not be in a poor spot just because there are other options for once.
dominusx21 votesthey are the weakest class only to their eyes. because they wanna go 6 dmg items without penalty. all you need as an adc is a tank item or even a frozen mallet and together with all the bs shields and lf available rn you are unkillable and do 800dmg per auto.
doublelift fg12 votespretty much, except that frozen mallet isn't way to go
if you want to survive against let's say full ap malphite, get 
or 
or 
13900 Essence1 votesI do end up getting frozen mallet on champs like 
for my last item since blue build (with 
) isn't as good as it used to be. I end up building 
instead. Mallet at least provides some utility and at the same time prevents me from getting one-shot by the 10/0 enemy 
that my team fed.
13900 Essence1 votesP.S. Rito pls put in an AD + Armor item.
doublelift fg1 votesezreal is a weird case but if you want to not get oneshot by rengar 
might be good since you can slow him (he can't have 5 stacks when he leaps he needs to wait) reduces his ulti damage and i think you would get it if there are other crit build champions like 
doublelift fg20 votesif you see someone telling you that adc are the weakest class, means that the dude is garbage at adc
Surfer Ashe2 votesIt's only because Riot somehow made Assassins even worse than before.
ADCs are on the lower end of the spectrum when you really think about it. When Ashe is considered the premier ADC of utility, which is an unreliable stun at best and a weak slow and the utility gets worse as you go down the list, and then factor in the constant 3-5 man shutdown botlane rending you unable to build damage, what does an ADC have as fall back? Nothing.
Tanks? Utility in kit and items. Mages? Almost all have massive AoE CC, some on basic abilities to fallback on. Fighters? Inherently a broken class. Support? Always relevant with utility. ADCs and Assassins have no fallback when you starve them, and by result, are on the low end of the spectrum. Just so happens Assassins are worse.
doublelift fg9 votes"When Ashe is considered the premier ADC of utility"
No, just No Utility should be everywhere on every champion, but depending on the class it would be reliable or not ie: support and front line get a reliable utility, while hyper carries get an unreliable utility Utility should be on every single champion to help us to choose which one we would pick depending on the situation. If every champions were like master yi bringing damage then the choise would be done: the one bringing the highest damage is picked in every game.
Ashe utility is also very reliable. Her reveal unlike Kalista has no counterplay, Runan allows her to slow 3 targets from 600 rang, volley slows multiple target from 1200 range, and it isn't a weak slow what the fuck? Next is sivir, No counterplay HUGE movement speed steroid?allowing a perfect engage? a perfect disengage? allowing annie to catch anyone? check
those 2 were never balanced in pro, always underpowered or overpowered and riot nerfed their damage to compensate the utility which just made them disappearing forever.
"ADCs and Assassins have no fallback when you starve them, and by result, are on the low end of the spectrum. Just so happens Assassins are worse"
last time i checked i'm perfectly able to play an ADC in every single fucking game without people reporting me, but if i try to play something else than an ADC in diamond 1, boom instant report
Thing is, people never played ADC in their life, then play adc and try to play them like they play toplane or midlane, or some shit. They end up dying by trying to do things alone and then "oh adc are weak" meanwhile enemy
can't die because his team protects him, and he destroys my entire team
but yeah, adc are sure weak
duckarp12 votesErm... Your whole premise is flawed. The fact some class is mandatory doesn't mean it's in a good spot.
Take supports for instance, a huge majority of the playerbase hates to play the role, yet it's still mandatory a team has a support player. Does it mean supports are in a good spot? Why there's such a huge shortage of support players then? Personally I think only supports are in a very bad shape. The role is very unrewarding and supports are often just a punching bag for the rest of the team. The fight went ok? Praise the adc. The fight went bad? WHERE ARE THOSE DAMN WARDS?! USELESS SUPPORT!!! REPORT!!
I found it funny though, because NA boards are pretty much the only place where I see people complaining about ADCs being overpowered. On EUW/EUNE for instance players cry only about assassins and tank meta. When I choose ADC as my role, I have pretty much a guaranteed role in the draft...
Surfer Ashe8 votesBecause NA thinks pre-valent = overpowered.
Perhaps it does, since all they do is copy what the pros do. Meanwhile, you can hear different champions in China being popular despite NA deeming them garabge (like Ezreal, Nidalee and Twitch at one point)
Also, NA boards like beating on a dead horse about one particular topic to farm upvotes. WoonStruck makes the same threads back to back with slightly different phrasing, half of the people complaining about Caitlyn haven't fought against one in weeks, etc.
WoonStruck8 votesPoint to the 'back to back' threads, please. You'll find you're very wrong.
Also:
half of the people complaining about Caitlyn haven't fought against one in weeks, etc.
Lol, are you trolling?
BastionKross2 votesYou're confusing role and class. Marksmen are a class, support is a role. If you go ADC, you're only picking one class (or Morde, if you're masochistic). If you go support, you're picking a warden or enchanter or utility mage...or Miss Fortune.
RavenMagus4 votesSupport is actually both a class and a role. Though the role is wider than the class - just about every support champion has to be played in the support role, but the support role can include other kinds of champions too.
DHBGrimReaper1 votesErm... Your whole premise is flawed. The fact some class is mandatory doesn't mean it's in a good spot.
Take supports for instance, a huge majority of the playerbase hates to play the role, yet it's still mandatory a team has a support player. Does it mean supports are in a good spot? Why there's such a huge shortage of support players then? Personally I think only supports are in a very bad shape. The role is very unrewarding and supports are often just a punching bag for the rest of the team. The fight went ok? Praise the adc. The fight went bad? WHERE ARE THOSE DAMN WARDS?! USELESS SUPPORT!!! REPORT!!
I found it funny though, because NA boards are pretty much the only place where I see people complaining about ADCs being overpowered. On EUW/EUNE for instance players cry only about assassins and tank meta. When I choose ADC as my role, I have pretty much a guaranteed role in the draft...
What the fuck? supports in a very bad shape? 
duckarp5 votesThat's one item! Do you think the role is fun for the majority of the playerbase?? Why do you think Riot was forced to implement autofill? You argue by posting one item and say the role is perfectly fine..... Makes sense.
DHBGrimReaper2 votesThat's one item! Do you think the role is fun for the majority of the playerbase?? Why do you think Riot was forced to implement autofill? You argue by posting one item and say the role is perfectly fine..... Makes sense.
I'll try to make it understandable for you. Redemption=Overpowered Overpowered=Win. Winning=fun.
AMYS GRAVE3 votesThen play support if you find it so fun and an easy win. Oh whats that, you played one support game recently (20 days ago) and had the most deaths in the game, and placed and destroyed fewer wards than your jungler? You've only played one game this patch? Ok then.
DHBGrimReaper1 votesThen play support if you find it so fun and an easy win. Oh whats that, you played one support game recently (20 days ago) and had the most deaths in the game, and placed and destroyed fewer wards than your jungler? You've only played one game this patch? Ok then.
If I wanted to have least deaths on my team I wouldnt have died to save my adc suiciding into their jungle constantly. But clearly you know more about support than me, so tell me how you think redemption is balanced if your adc has a brain and doesnt wander off into enemy jg?
AMYS GRAVE4 votesI never said redemption was balanced, but you think that means support is the most fun role in the game so have at it. Let me know how it goes.
And as an aside if your adc is suiciding into their jungle constantly then the right play is to protect someone on your team who can do something useful. You diving into a lost fight and dying is still a mistake, or maybe learn how to get into the fight and out of it alive to help them.
Sasogwa1 votesErm... Your whole premise is flawed. The fact some class is mandatory doesn't mean it's in a good spot.
Take supports for instance, a huge majority of the playerbase hates to play the role, yet it's still mandatory a team has a support player. Does it mean supports are in a good spot? Why there's such a huge shortage of support players then? Personally I think only supports are in a very bad shape. The role is very unrewarding and supports are often just a punching bag for the rest of the team. The fight went ok? Praise the adc. The fight went bad? WHERE ARE THOSE DAMN WARDS?! USELESS SUPPORT!!! REPORT!!
I found it funny though, because NA boards are pretty much the only place where I see people complaining about ADCs being overpowered. On EUW/EUNE for instance players cry only about assassins and tank meta. When I choose ADC as my role, I have pretty much a guaranteed role in the draft...
Actually supports are extremely strong in the current meta, and mandatory just as much as ADC, because of the insane protection and utility they bring, without monopolizing a source of gold (the minion wave). However they feel unrewarding because they don't do damage; they don't get much gold, etc. But they are strong ; and buffing them would be unreasonable. Especially since some of them can really lock in place someone and they are basically reducing the counterplay of adc's.
duckarp1 votesI never said they need to be buffed. They need to be changed so it's more fun to actually pick the role. We have a huge shortage of support players and Riot needs to solve it asap. Personally I'm ok with playing a support, but I understand why the majority downright despises the role and they would rather dodge the queue and wait for 20minutes than to play a game as a support.
ZephyrDrake4 votesgarbage waste of space thread is garbage and wasteful
S0kaX5 votesgarbage waste of space comment is garbage and wasteful
ZephyrDrake3 votesgarbage waste of space comment is garbage and wasteful
at least you admit your comment is garbage and wasteful
S0kaX5 votesAt least I can come with a better reply.
ZephyrDrake1 votesAt least I can come with a better reply.
well i am waiting for said better reply since i don't see one
S0kaX5 votesit seems you have some eye problems, no wonder you made your original comment
Rockm Sockm4 votesSome Adcs are currently hitting the power spike too early.
Honestly, the big problem is keep diving bot meta.
If the other team does it you lost the game. If your team does it, you usually win.
Jungle is by far, the most important role with the easiest path to carry.
Penns3 votesHow can you say "best class" with a straight face when junglers, mages and even supports are around? You even call them a class yourself, obvioisly they are mandatory in every game, so are junglers lel.
WoonStruck12 votesClass =/= role.
Learn the difference.
Penns1 votesI actually confused role and class lol. Still, they are basically a role, its always been "adc". And do adcs ever win games? Because in my games they never do unless they go like 5/0 early and even then they are often still free kills 1v1 or 2v2. Meanwhile junglers or other laners constantly decide games.
WoonStruck4 votesIt happens.
And every game this season has been determined by which bot lane feeds first from my experience. If they aren't rotating after first tower, that's probably why you aren't seeing them decide games: they aren't doing what they're supposed to in that case. Its like a jungler not ganking or taking dragon control at all in a game.
Penns2 votesWell Id say thats because you can probably get first blood tower and dragon control if the enemy bot lane feeds. Most of the time when my bot lane goes mid, as a mid laner, I just get annoyed because they do nothing other than taking my farm lol. Since I only play assassins, and them going mid baits the enemy bot to go mid as well (or at least the support), Id rather have them just stay bot honestly, unless they can actually get mid tower.
Rebonack1 votesIf you want to make Marksmen optional, then divorce XP gain from minion kills. Add an XP ticker akin to Dominion. Increase XP gain from taking contested neutral objectives and champ kills to stand in for the XP currently lost for being out of lane after getting killed. Swap over to DotA style minion aggro. If you even click on an enemy champion, they're out for your blood rather than waiting for the attack to land.
Fighter-based bottom lanes don't work because the class needs at least equal level footing with top/mid/jungle to be functional. Even level footing and minion aggro more in their favor would open the duo lane to melees.
WoonStruck2 votesYou don't have to divorce XP gain from minion kills.
You just have to increase the efficiency of putting two roles together in the same lane.
It might even make it so jungle isn't 100% mandatory as an early gold stream.
DotA style minion aggro would be better for the game either way.
Rebonack3 votesYou don't have to divorce XP gain from minion kills.
You just have to increase the efficiency of putting two roles together in the same lane.
It might even make it so jungle isn't 100% mandatory as an early gold stream.
DotA style minion aggro would be better for the game either way.
Could also do it by making it so XP doesn't get split at all. Or do it through Support itemization somehow. One way or the other, though, you need the duo lane to be on equal footing in terms of XP income as the other lanes, or level dependent champions (any Carry that isn't a Ranged Attack Damage Carry) are going to have a bad time. I just like the XP ticker option because it would make roaming gankers a possible thing.
I want to see solutions to this, too. We've got all these options but we're locked into an incredibly ridged lane setup. I would love to see 1/3/1 and 1/1/1/J/R competing with the 1/1/2/J comp. I would love to see early game monsters like Panth teaming up with Xin or Jman and just stomping more passive lanes into a mudhole. I would love to see Eve lurking around the map farming champions rather than monsters and minions. I would love to see a game that's focused on objectives and skirmishes rather than molesting minions for fifteen minutes.
Marksmen being mandatory isn't the problem. It's a symptom of the problem. And the only way to actually solve the problem is with systemic changes to how Rift works on the points of resource allocation and possible primary objective securing as well.
Making minion aggro more favorable to melee champs wouldn't hurt, either.
Back in DotA it was pretty common as a melee champ to click a ranged foe and back off right away, causing their creeps to chase you. When they went back, their melee creeps would now be facing you and your melee creeps would be facing them. As a result, if they tried to harass you from range, your creeps would be a buffer between you and they. I was actually pretty shocked when I first started playing League and discovered you couldn't do that. 'How the hell am I supposed to farm as a melee against ranged?' I wondered.
Apparently you aren't.
Whoops.
Teridax681 votesI completely agree with favoring duo lanes more naturally through systemic changes. If XP gains weren't split, and multiple participants in a lane gained gold and XP from nearby creep farming with no diminishing returns, and if lane mechanics were either adjusted or expanded upon so that players could thrive even when outnumbered, it could solve a huge number of problems in the game. Supports would be able to run on equal gold and experience with other classes, and wouldn't have to be balanced around crappy income. Duo lanes wouldn't be restricted to bot anymore, and we could have much more diversity in positional setups. I'm not sure if that would singlehandedly make marksmen non-mandatory, but it would certainly be a step towards making the class less of a fixture.
Obviously, one of the core issues would be how to implement compensatory lane mechanics for outnumbered champions, since currently being the 1 in a 2v1 lane already feels terrible, but I think that should be done with towers, which need an overhaul: every tower past the outer turret needs to take on a completely different form, but the Outer Turret could perhaps also have mechanics in place to discourage teams pile-diving onto single laners: for example, if the Outer Turret detected an imbalance in lane numbers, and spawned a slow-moving guardian in that situation that would help the outnumbered side defend, it could a) balance unbalanced lanes by giving players more room to maneuver against greater numbers, and b) protect against cases like the current 4-man gank meta in bot lane, which aren't fun for anyone. Basically, the only reason right now why we can't have duo lanes move around more is because 2v1 lanes feel like shit to play, and if that were to be solved, teams would be able to position themselves in any proportion anywhere and still have a healthy, fun game for everyone.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesyou'd alienate a lot of the player base changing the game so drastically. if you want a game like that why don't you just play dota? the meta league has works extremely well and is satisfying.
WoonStruck2 votesAlienate a lot of players? Are you joking?
How would it alienate players if more than just ranged ADCs were viable bot lane?
The meta League has obviously does not work well. Everybody complains about the lack of diversity in ALL lanes, and this largely stems from the fact that all of them have a benchmark according to how they interact with ADCs and scale into the game vs them.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesYou think anyone enjoys 2v2 kill lanes youre crazy.
Ruining the overall meta game of league won't increase champ diversity at all some champions are always going to win 2% more of the time than others no matter what you do to the game
Ahristocats1 votesbecause sometime i don't want to play a 2 hours game despite being a dota player
why is this so hard to understand?
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesThe people who want to wreck league just because of an irrational gated of marksman are a very small minority that only appear on this board. Tall need to get over the fact that this is what league is. Professional players commit to these classes and millions main specific roles. Throwing that out the window and making every class good in every lane will only ruin the fun of the laning phase for everyone.
Ahristocats1 voteswe don't care about who wants to do what
riot wants diversity, they just have to find a good way to make botlane having diversity to make their game better
because if botlane is melee adc+ranged adc= good diversity=better game
doublelift fg2 votesthat's the dumbest thing i ever heard
[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EhbaWiqs,comment-id=000b0000000100010000,timestamp=2016-12-21T16:48:46.218+0000)
Professional players commit to these classes and millions main specific roles. Throwing that out the window and making every class good in every lane will only ruin the fun of the laning phase for everyone.
professional players play the best to win money, they have nothing to do with classes. Just like doublelift learned mordekaiser to abuse him when he was gamebreaking, do you know how it is? it works like this, if riot makes botlane not only adc and let's say vayne and trynd become broken then pros will play vayne and trynd period they don't have the choise
[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EhbaWiqs,comment-id=000b0000000100010000,timestamp=2016-12-21T16:48:46.218+0000) Throwing that out the window and making every class good in every lane will only ruin the fun of the laning phase for everyone.
??????????? i'm playing the same lane for 5 or 6 years now, i played in those 5 years against: ADC+morde+urgot, nothing else, nothing Morde surprised me because i never saw morde botlane, AND THAT'S GOOD because i want to be surprised instead of repeating the same game thanksfully league isn't all about laning phase
moral of the story? playing against something new is not game-ruining, if you don't want new things then stay fucking mad kids
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesEveryone but you hated morde bot. And since there's about zero chance of riot making marksmen super shitty or creating an alternative class maybe you're the one who should stay mad lol
Gelmous1 votesis there melee ADC ? why did you add ranged into it ?
Wimbledofy1 votesyas, trynd, yi, and yas.
Gelmous1 votesis says they're either Assassins or fighters
Wimbledofy3 votesso? there isn't a single champ in the game labeled as adc. I'm assuming you know what adc stands for.
Ahristocats1 votestrynd isn't a fighter