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The Cassiopeia rework in a nutshell(visual)

IndyBoy·12/9/2014, 2:21:58 AM·130 votes·9,831 views

I really really liked Ginga's idea of using visual aides to get his point across so I'm gonna try and do that here. The Cass rework in a nutshell.

PBE pre-live: http://i.imgur.com/PvKYXTI.jpg Riot: "Hey guys we got you this awesome pizza!" Cass players: "But we didn't order any pizza." Riot: "its alright this ones on the house." c: Cass players: "well that's cool I guess. Lets have a slice!" all grab a slice and take a bite Cass players: "ewwwwwwwwwwww this pizza is awful, its nothing like the pizza we like, it has none of the toppings we like whatsoever. Also the crust is burnt, the cheese is cold, and the toppings themselves are rancid." 1 person who just started playing Cass after she was actually reworked: "this pizza rules guys!" Riot: "Glad to hear you like it fellas! We're gonna start shipping this all over based on your input!" Cass players: "But we didn't....." Riot employee walks away

Live(Lets talk Cassiopeia): Cass players: "thank goodness you're back there's been a huge misunderstanding! The pizza you left us was awful, please we never want anymore of that pizza." Riot: "well you're in luck because I just brought out a new pizza! A better pizza!" http://i.imgur.com/cPEIEXv.jpg Cass players look at the pizza Cass players: "but but... that's just the same pizza... you didn't change anything at all" :c Riot: "whats that? You like the new pizza? Glad to hear cause its shipping out everywhere tomorrow for a special event we're having!" Cass players: "No please don't there's so many things wrong with that pizza, so many things that make it awful." Riot: "Oop is that the time? Gotta run guys, that big events happening tomorrow and we gotta have everything ready for it." Riot employee walks away

MONTHS LATER: Riot: "Hey sorry guys. Turns out people don't like the new pizza. Oh btw sorry we haven't been around in a while we've been busy with other pizza events." :( Cass players: "Oh thank goodness you're back, these past few months have been awful. We thought you completely abandoned us. We had a ton of good discussion about whats wrong with the new pizza while you were gone though." :) Riot: "Well that's awesome cause we would love to hear it to improve the pizza." Cass players: "Well the problems are that the toppings you put on the pizza are completely wrong. It has nothing to do with the fact that the pizza itself was burnt and cooked improperly, its more about the toppings themselves." Riot employee nods his head Riot: "ok I think I gotcha so what we're gonna do is change the toppings a bit, you see these anchovies we had added? Gone now. Now we're replacing them with sardines which are even fishier and saltier to really bring out that fishy tasty you guys love! Hows that sound!? Also we're gonna make sure the pizza is cooked properly this time so there's no issues." :) http://i.imgur.com/2bxFUAG.jpg Cass players: "NOOOOOOOO, STOPPPPPPPPPPP! We don't like that fishy taste, it completely ruins the pizza, I mean we love the fact that you're fixing the cooking of the pizza but it still is gonna taste awful regardless." riot employee walks away

Current situation: Riot employee walks up Cass players: "Hey can you please please just stop putting these toppings on this pizza... PLEASE! You could even have a discussion with us to see what would be a cool direction for new pizza toppings. We all have come up with a ton of really cool ideas." Riot: "We hear your concerns, and to try and remedy this we have made minimal changes to the pizza. The delicious sardines are still intact so don't worry, and the pizza has now been cooked properly." http://i.imgur.com/6JsGKLW.jpg Cass players: "WE HATE SARDINES THOUGH! NO ONE LIKES SARDINES! 1 person who just started playing Cass after she was actually reworked: "I like it!" Cass players: "Ok MOST of us don't like it. We just want our tasty pizza back, it may have been kinda similar to some other pizza's but it had a special taste to it that we loved and no other pizza has that specific taste. PLEASEEEEEEEEE" :c Riot employee walks away without saying a word

99 Comments

Serpents Embrace12/9/2014, 2:39:30 AM53 votes

I wish this could be considered hyperbole.

FyreNinja12/9/2014, 3:06:19 AM29 votes

Laughed and cried at the same time, this is both fantastic and accurate

StuffedTurkey00712/9/2014, 9:49:32 AM17 votes

Why is the damage on Cass's W so pathetic now? I just don't see why it has to be so low.

Grand Eleven12/9/2014, 3:39:13 AM13 votes

This is non-constructive, possibly inflammatory, and risks hurting those of us trying to make a real impact.

.... yet I can't stop myself from up-voting.

Nagirah12/9/2014, 9:14:14 AM13 votes

Next patch: even more sardines.

metaworldpeace1012/9/2014, 10:21:10 PM9 votes

This rework has been a mess from the start to now. It started off horribly when Stashu created a discussion on the old GD board a day before his "rework" hit the PBE. He then vanished out of thin air for weeks, only to come back and listen to those members of the community that liked where the rework was heading. He continues to ignore player feedback and pursue his dream of making Cassiopeia a "hyper scaling late game carry" when 95% of the community wants the old poison mage, zone control and DoT mage that she once was.

yellowbricks12/9/2014, 2:35:01 AM9 votes

The Cass we have now is definitely a Little Caesar's hot and ready (aka cheap and shitty) pizza with extra head-lice toppings.

hobomann212/9/2014, 3:06:29 AM7 votes

its like the FCC thinking but vise versa,if 1 person likes the changes then EVERYONE likes it,i swear riot has rifle barrels for eyes,level of tunnel vision

kitcat30012/9/2014, 4:53:17 AM6 votes

Not a cass player, still laughed...... now I should get out of here before you kill me for liking the pizza.

AetherKingdom12/9/2014, 3:21:01 AM6 votes

Cass wasn't reworked to suit cass mains. get. over. it.

Xaihady12/10/2014, 10:09:17 PM6 votes

I'm a solo laner who loves tackling difficult champions with a high reward potential. Pre-work Cass seemed to me to be a niche pick; a champ who was powerful but because of her lofty skill floor wasn't played as often. Which was tantalizingly fantastic to me. Around late summer I decided I finally wanted to learn her, but I heard she was getting a rework, so I figured I'd wait until after the fact to start.

And once the rework hit and I did try her out she was certainly difficult to do well with, so I didn't think much of it because difficulty is what I expected. But after a few games passed and I started getting the mechanics down, I realized that the bulk of this difficulty was coming from an inability to hold her own in lane and a power rise delayed way too long. Plus, getting those stacks is horrendously BORING. Sure, if I survive to late game my E does mind-boggling damage to the enemy, which was fun for a while, but it's all just slapping down some form of poison and spamming a point-and-click ability like mad. Cheap and unsatisfying. It doesn't feel so beautifully TOXIC, like the Cass I remember seeing played and was excited to play.

I'm just sad beyond belief that I never picked her up before. I feel like I missed something WAY better and it's becoming more and more clear that as long as Stashu keeps his head buried in the dirt, which he's excelled at doing so far, it's not coming back.

Señor Karthus12/10/2014, 6:05:55 AM6 votes

I just bought her when the rework was released. I didn't know about it. I expected to play the zoning bitchy poisonous champion that I saw others playing and that seduced me. Instead, I found out that, even after the trouble of landing my Qs, they dealt almost no damage. That I had to Q EE to do anything meaningful, and that almost every Mid Champion out traded me in the process. It isn't until level 14 or so that she starts doing anything meaningful at all. Why can she be the poison queen when Teemo's poison feels much better than hers since he only needs to land autoattacks. I don't know. I tried everything to make her viable in game, but it just doesn't work. You get rekt in the lane phase no matter what you do, unless you have friendly teammates that abandon their lanes constantly to help you... It feels nothing like her. It feels shitty. It doesn't feel rewarding at all.

FlubbyDG12/11/2014, 2:32:50 AM6 votes

AFAIK, she was not reworked because she was deemed "OP" or lacked counterplay or anything, but because she was weak in the meta. I also remember someone mentioning that strong DOTs are "anti-fun" because it's hard to tell how much damage you've taken/are taking. I also remember a rioter saying they want champions to have one, distinct and unique role/experience and do that one thing well.

Well, as far as I can see both reasons are crappy in this instance. Cass did have a unique playstyle - she felt uniquely poison-y, in a way completely different from Singed, Teemo, or Brand. As for the "anti-fun" of DOT's, this applies to all DOT champions and should be addressed via visual indicators NOT (more obvious icon, purple healthbar, etc).

The effectiveness of DOTs isn't about an opponent "not realizing" they are losing HP, it's puts them into a "time management" counterplay. They can all-in before the damage kills them, since they have some time before it does. They can run back and try and heal up.

Picking one champ who specializes in DOTs, and than nerfing those DOTS to put focus on the other spells, is silly. I'll admit I've only played Cass one time in an aram, but I've racked up tons of games as old Cass, and my inital experience of her update was "ugh, she doesn't poison anymore. all i can do is run around throwing fangs at everyone. I know longer feel like a cool, venomous threat in lane ....instead I feel like some sort of weak mage-nasus who spends the entire early game hoping be relevant.".

Initial verdict (admittedly based on 1 aram): terrible.

Also, it's understood that Riot will never completely revert a reworked champ. Not only is it doubtful they'd change their minds so much, but it would make them look bad, like they'd made a mistake, and also give the impression that they'll cave when a bunch of players rage over something. New Cass is, unfortunately, here to stay.

DOTs actually have more counterplay than straight damage, imo. If you get DOT'd and know you're dead, you can all-in instead of running. Or, you can run before you're actually low, to avoid

icking on one champ who specializes in DOTS and just making the actual D in DOT useless.

I don't anybody was ever asking for a late-game hypercarry focus, and I'm not sure why they chose that (I recall

Xenohaz12/9/2014, 4:12:42 PM6 votes

I'm the guy who started playing her after the rework. Should I be ashamed or something? Because I really do enjoy her as she is now.

GazXXX12/9/2014, 3:45:19 AM6 votes

annnnnnnddddd this is why I play smite now. Never heard of an active community being part of a MOBA game when i played lol

Źenji12/9/2014, 2:29:07 PM5 votes

Rito Plz. -.- Do it for da Cassiopeia

Kowe The Ewok12/9/2014, 3:08:03 AM5 votes

Funny 'cause it's true.

To a larger extend however - it's saddening :/

Jillfinger12/9/2014, 7:37:38 AM5 votes

Too bad Rito will just ignore this thread as well.

Hugattack12/10/2014, 6:11:46 PM5 votes

Cassie used to be one of my favourites, now I wont even play her in a bot game

Auz the Ripper12/9/2014, 6:17:30 PM4 votes

I have it! The solution! All Cass main just have to put on gimp suits and become masochists! They can even make a new skin! Bondage Submissive Casseopia! It's so simple!

Eve The Ripper12/9/2014, 7:05:57 AM4 votes

At first sight, I loved the new Cass, but then I realized that she was suddenly crazy weak early on. None of my spells really felt like they were doing anything compared to before. She's still fun late, but I had to abandon the Q-centric strat in favor of spamming fang, and that still feels like much ado to do nothing.

questir12/9/2014, 6:12:03 PM4 votes

I bet King Cobra is that one only person who liked the rework. Cobra if you are reading this, it is not a hate comment or anything :P. But it just seems you're the only person who liked the current Cassio rework

5G8Nri0B5412/11/2014, 6:54:39 AM3 votes

So I played a few games as Cassiopeia 4.21.

It wasn't a positive experience.

I mean, I'm not surprised that I didn't enjoy her at all. I'm not surprised she struggles against champions with even a bit of mobility or that her Passive pisses you off more than it makes you feel powerful and shit. When I DID win, it's purely because that Katarina was an idiot.

However...you can't criticize and provide feedback if you don't suffer first.

Unedible12/9/2014, 4:37:52 AM3 votes

I laughed more than I should have.

I feel bad now.

5G8Nri0B5412/9/2014, 7:15:06 AM3 votes

Shit, did Stashu just temporarily go black there?

Myrddin12/9/2014, 10:19:04 AM3 votes

honestly is there a point to this thread?

Nothing will change based on it, why would a multi-million dollar company listen to the vocal minority. If they would have seen a drastic decrease in cass sales, they may have changed something, but her play rate and i imagine her sale rate remained the same and it had a small spike, i imagine, whenever they did the small changes to her.

your enjoyment in the end doesn't matter, sales matter. If the sales indicate a change needs to be made, it will happen. They do have to invest man hours into this, they have to invest thousands upon thousands of dollars just for a single small change. If this was your company and it wasn't going to amount to much of if any profit, would you do it? really? I know i wouldn't

Osocoldd12/10/2014, 9:30:55 AM2 votes

OK so I'm kind of a noob as S4 was my first season. (And I'm not that good of a player because I am in bronze 3) and I don't understand why ppl hate the cass rework. I never played the original and I only use her as support ever so often and I do decent but I to me teemo is a better support than she is.

Can someone explain to me how she got nerfed exactly? And was she nerfed worse than Irelia (because I've heard that was the most awful nerf)

AdgharKH12/9/2014, 9:33:38 AM1 votes

You're making me crave pizza!