Trying to kill an AD with Steraks + Maw as an APC is like bashing your head against a wall

Yenn·Mar 22, 2016·53 votes·2,574 views

Is this ever going to be fixed? Considering anything that builds Steraks + Maw will likely face stomp you if it ever touches you.

77 Comments

AstôlfoMar 22, 20168 votes

At least something will still die if you bash your head against a wall (brain cells). Unlike... well, them.

AazzlanoMar 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

At least something will still die if you bash your head against a wall (brain cells). Unlike... well, them.

Actually I've broken a hole in the wall by bashing it with my head.

Much easier to do than killing someone with Steraks + Maw and I didn't die IRL like I would have in-game if I attempted to kill them with an APC

SeenanMar 22, 20163 votes

Sterak's should be melee only, imo. No more squishies using it and it still serves its purpose. Or you know, reduce its effect on ranged champs/champs with lower than 3k hp. Maw's just kinda too strong atm.

ZedexMar 22, 20163 votes

Kills the item on characters like Gnar and Jayce who might be tempted to buy it top lane due to their melee/ranged swaps.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20162 votes

Easiest way would be to make it require minimum 3000 health to work/purchase or something.

LankPantsMar 23, 20162 votes

Or even better, make the shield scale off bonus HP. That way it's still a rushable item for someone like Garen if he gets set behind and needs bulk ASAP since he probably plans to build more HP after, but when an ADC buys it as a 3rd or 4th item they get a crappy 150-200 HP shield.

Photos of GhostsMar 22, 20161 votes

It's not related to modifying the autoattack's mechanics, it's related to use of HP and base AD, so that should be the conditions. No flat shield just the scaling, maybe a minimum max hp cap to be used (maybe not 3k, but at least 2600/2700?) Also you're completely closing the door to ranged tanks (building ACTUALLY traditionally tanky on current ranged champs or making new champs to go with that scheme) to use an item that would be made FOR THEM since they'd be real tanks.

SeenanMar 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcO3dykb,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2016-03-22T13:16:57.821+0000)

It's not related to modifying the autoattack's mechanics, it's related to use of HP and base AD, so that should be the conditions. No flat shield just the scaling, maybe a minimum max hp cap to be used (maybe not 3k, but at least 2600/2700?) Also you're completely closing the door to ranged tanks (building ACTUALLY traditionally tanky on current ranged champs or making new champs to go with that scheme) to use an item that would be made FOR THEM since they'd be real tanks.

Alright, then how about still letting it for the hybrid champs, but not for pure ranged champs?

M0RDEKA1SERMar 22, 20162 votes

Seterk's is only effective for burst. Instead of trying to all in, draw your abilities out and kite them. Just whittle them away and play safe, sure, maw will proc eventually, but that's when you let everyone know it's on CD. If you have a halfway competent team, they're a sitting duck.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20169 votes

Or no, Sterak's should never have been usable on squishies.

ZedexMar 22, 20168 votes

"No, your argument is against anything I believe in. Simply no. I won't waste time with reasoning, or deductions, simply no. You're wrong and I'm always right. Gut the item so only bruisers can use it, no, you're wrong, I'm right. No reasoning required."

AstôlfoMar 22, 20165 votes

Or, you could stop being such an ignorant idiot and try to look past your bias for ADCs. ADCs deal an insane amount of damage in DPS. The tradeoff is that they're also extremely squishy. Sterak's was always meant to be a bruiser/tank/etc item. It wasn't meant for squishies to become immortal and bullshit their way out of dying when they fully should have died. Nice try kiddo, except it really wasn't. ;)

Photos of GhostsMar 22, 20164 votes

You didn't say anything relevant.

If you buy tanky items you're not buying damaging items. The solution is for example to revert the AD increases for marksmen from preseason, this way Sterak's base AD gives less DPS to a marksman.
If you get a shield based on your max health, you need to commit to buying health or the shield will be small. The solution is to remove the flat part of Sterak's shield and slightly buff it's scaling.
Marksmen always bought defensive items later on. Now, there are simply better tanky options and better hybrid items than before. We just need to nerf those better options or make them less appealing to carries.
They don't become immortal if it's a shield with a cooldown. They become very resistant to burst. Not to poke, for example.
Maw should just get a cooldown on its lifestal, so that high attack speed doesn't allow to abuse it and it indeed becomes the item for bruisers and assassins.
"Was meant to", and yet AD assassins used ADC items for seasons. Until ADCs get a good solution against AD burst, they'll use the generalistic option that is Sterak, and mages will suffer since ADCs ALSO have Maw. Items are used by who needs them.
Sterak doesn't offer anything that is related to modifying the autoattack's mechanic of application, so it doesn't make sense to limit it to certain categories of mechanic of application of autoattack.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20161 votes

Uh, yes, I did.

1."oh wow I have to sacrifice one damage item out of 5-6* in return for becoming pretty much immortal! aww man, this sucks!" *(Depending on whether you get boots or not) 2. Or no, it's still a large enough shield to bullshit the way out of most situations, because the burst would take out 80-100% or so of their health most likely. But suddenly, they gain 30% max health back while they just run away out of a situation they should have died because it was entirely their own fault they get caught in that situation in that first place. 3. Uh no, they bought counter items (stuff against AP, armor pen, etc). And said tanky options should not even be usable on ADCs/squishies in the first place and should be changed so they literally cannot be used in the first place on them. 4. Yeah except you're not just going to poke them to death unless they're an idiot and don't know how to move away. The shield also has an extremely small cooldown. Also the fact ADCs excel in DPS and they'll outpoke you. Do you even try with your arguments? 5. Maw is another problem, but it's a flat shield as well as AP only, making it less problematic than Gage. 6. Pray tell, what are those "ADC" items? If you just list generic damage items, I literally have nothing left to say to you. Because nothing will work. Um... ADCs should not have an option against any type of burst in the first place. Neither should any other squishy. 7. Well it's just mostly ADCs are ranged, hence limiting it to melee only would generally solve it. The problem comes with ranged tanks/bruisers/etc and non-ranged squishies. Hence, my suggestion being to lock it out from purchase or usage altogether unless they have minimum 3000 or so health.

Try again.

Photos of GhostsMar 22, 20164 votes

You always get boots. And hybrid items are currently too good (Maw, Death's Dance, Mercurial, Phantom Dancer) which is why they feel "immortal", not because of sterak alone. They have more than ONE defensive item in their kit, the problem is the offensive hypersynergy.
Because there's supposed to be counterbuilding to assassins. Marksmen just shouldn't be able to lifesteal their way out of poke, which is again the hypersynergy of different items, not a problem with the abuse of the intended stats given by an item. Which is why I just made a post suggesting some changes to lifesteal as a stat.
... So you suggest to be limited to half of the items in the game just because you have range? Despite the fact that as a result you lack the base ad, resistances and hp scaling that everyone else has? You suggest forcing everyone to a single playstyle? You suggest deleting the possibility for future (or already existent) ranged bruisers/tanks? And what about the defensive items specifically for marksmen, like Guardian Angel?
... The problem is that they lifesteal on minon waves, not that you can't poke them. They're specialised in DPS, precisely, not in poke.
Maw is what makes it overbearing for mages. Sterak is preferred because it offers stuff against Zed, Talon and Lee. Previously, the only option was GA.
"ADCs should not have an option against any type of burst in the first place. Neither should any other squishy." ... what on earth are you on. Everyone build how they want, metoid. And they get the playstyle and advantages tht go with their build. If "boo hoo they're too strong to have tankiness from items" why not also "boo hoo they're too strong to have damage from items"? It's the EXACT SAME THING. Do you want to make Marksmen a class that can't buy any items?
Which is why the idea of range limitation shouldn't even be formulated because there are wayyyy more sensical options. Try again.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20161 votes

Uh, Maw is bad, just like Sterak's. Sterak's even worse. Death's Dance is hardly protective and is situational. Mercurial is one of the most possibly situational. Dancer is again, situational. Sterak's - and to a lesser extent, Maw - are the bullshit items that keep them alive essentially in every situation they had no right to survive.
Uh, Marksmen would destroy people trying to poke them because their very nature makes them better at doing so, with high DPS and long ranges. Or, if it somehow still presented a problem, they'd just back off and away.
Uh, no. Not even close to half the items. Just literally the one (maybe two) item(s) that are completely bullshit on ADCs and squishies. The whole point they lack that is because of the damage they do in return, smart one. And I'm not suggesting locking anyone to a single playstyle. But squishies/ADCs are not meant to be hard to kill in terms of health/defense at all, nor should they be. They are hard to kill because of just being able to kite at range and their damage, as well as the fact they have a support early on. Ranged bruisers/tanks barey even exist, and the ones that do aren't ADCs. Try again, lmfao. The few ranged bruisers/tanks that come to mind atm are Gnar, Naut (somewhat), Illaoj (a bit). I probably forgot a tew, but that's the gist of it. See a trend? They're all solo top tanks/foghters/bruisers (except the odd Naut/Illaoi/etc support). Gee, I wonder. And Guardian Angel has drawbacks and isn't limited to just marksmen. Actual ranged bruisers/tanks would be extraordinarily stupid so yes, deleting their future is fine, since it's lterallly the trade off for being ranged is being squishy. lmao
Yes except if you try and poke them they're not just going to sit idly and heal off minions. They're going to kite you back and probably kill you if you don't stop being foolish with trying to ranged duel what is literally ranged DPS. Man, your points keep getting worse. lmao
Uh, they should not have any options against those kinds of champs, lmao. They are assassins who specialize in picking off targets who either are squishy or have low health for one reason or another that decide to wander off (foolishly) by themselves. The ADC's counter to them is staying behind your team's tanks/bruisers safely and dishing out long-ranged damage. And vision/support in back to counter flanking attempts. It's not to get a bullshit item that completely nullifies the one weakness of your class so you can dance around willy nilly like an idiot without any fear.
What even is a metoid? And sure, everyone can pick a playstyle. But if you want to be tanky/bruiser, ADCs are literally the exact opposite. And the whole point of them doing damage so well is because they can't take it at all. It's literally the core tradeoff of damage vs survivability. What planet are YOU on? Nice job on the strawmen there. Too bad they can't hold up your flimsy excuse of an argument. lmfao
If you could read basic English, which you apparently can't, you'd realize I'm against limiting by range specifically because of champs like Gnar for example. But, unfortunately it seems you're illiterate. ;) shrug

I'd ask you to try again, but it's obvious your disgustingly awful attempts to argue will do nothing but get worse as you run out of things to say, as evidenced by your reply, not to mention he equally disgusting overwhelming presence of bias and just inability to debate at all. So don't bother. ;)

All the biased ADC players frantically downvoting me is adorable though. ;)

AtanchanMar 22, 20163 votes

To be fair, you are asking for a mechanic that's applied to items because they attach something to autoattacks ... to things that don't attach anything to autoattacks.

The reason why you can't build Runaan's on Garen is the same reason why you can't buy two pairs of brown boots. Building a defensive + offensive item on someone squishy that likes dealing damage isn't a mistake that stems from inexperience - in fact, usually it's a call from experience that the defensive component is well worth the subpar damage that doesn't apply to most abilities.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20161 votes

??? I'm asking for an item that's not meant for a class to be hardcoded so that class literally cannot use it. And the damage loss for trading a damage item for Sterak's or such in comparison to the survivability they gain is so overwhelmingly little that it's not any real tradeoff at all. They'll still deal insane amounts of damage either way, but with this, they just deal a little bit less in return for basically becoming immortal every fight or every other fight (depending on how fast teamfights break out).

AtanchanMar 22, 20162 votes

Restricting a champion from buying an item for literally no reason aside from the fact that it's tagged a certain way in the search feature makes zero sense. It would make far more sense to turn Sterak's into an item built into a champion like the Hextech Core or Bonetooth Necklace ... and even that doesn't really make much sense.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20161 votes

Uh no, it would be restricted because it's way too strong on said champions and nullifies their one weakness without any sort of significant tradeoff negative for them at all.

AtanchanMar 22, 20162 votes

Well, yes, one of the reasons why you buy items is to cover your weaknesses. Adding items bans on champions because you're doing something you're intended to be able to do ( hence why the only items you can't buy on any champions are the ones that are literally functionally broken on those champions, like Runaan's ) is entirely arbitrary.

AtanchanMar 22, 20161 votes

If it's genuinely nullifying weaknesses, doesn't that mean the item's too strong regardless? If an item's actually making people immortal, it seems like the solution would be a lot closer to nerfing it or removing it entirely instead of imposing arbitrarily limitations on who can buy it.

Photos of GhostsMar 22, 20162 votes

non-points, but let's stop talking about this
POKE IS NOT DPS AND DPS IS NOT POKE. Tired of repeating it. Dedicatd pokes don't to reach a carry's range, as well as a part of occasional pokers. Not only this, but entering a carry's range doesn't mean getting "dps'd". It means getting one autoattack in your face if they're good. If we ACTUALLY changed Marksmen to be ACTUALLY specialised in DPS when built the standard way, one autoattack from them woulnd't matter all that much.
You said they shouldn't be able to build defensively. That means taking away literally everything including triforce because it has 200 HP. And, again, if they build defensively they don't build offensively, so you're taking away their possibility to give up being a damage threat. Nice advancement.
This is literally what I said, dude. Literally what I said. "The problem is that they heal off minions" "YES BUT THEY HEAL OFF MINIONS".
How can you advocate being able to click on someone and have them be deleted? Look, if all these champions were reworked TODAY and were wayyyy less consistent, I'd say you're right and it's just a matter of skill in local and global positioning
A metoid is a not purely insulting synonim of metasheep. Since you know, humanity is disgustingly anthropocentrical, and they consider an insult anything that compares them to animals, despite explicitely refusing to give themselves a standard that goes above animals. And AGAIN, if you build bruiser on a ranged champion you don't also magically get your classic s5 ie + 2 crit items + AS boots + BT build. You're not automatically an ad carry just because you picked a marksman, if you don't build them like an ad carry.
[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcO3dykb,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-22T14:02:27.419+0000)

Which is why the idea of range limitation shouldn't even be formulated because there are wayyyy more sensical options.

Shouldn't even be formulated, I said. I didn't say you support it. But you formulated it. And then I can't read.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20161 votes

I distinctly remember saying to not bother, but alright.

"I have nothing to say so let's just skip over it" Okay.
LMAO. I never said DPS is poke. Them being ranged makes them able to poke because they can kite easily. And with how much damage they do, I'm pretty sure that's going to hurt more than some random person trying to poke them. Yes, it doesn't mean the end of the world if you get in their range, but unless it's not worth it for some reason, they'll probably chase after you to go for a kill if you get in their range in the first place.
Yeah and Triforce is a generic item that gives a little bit of pretty much everything. Try harder. And you still haven't said anything else about the "everything". ;) And no, of course they wouldn't build pure defense. Except Ezreal and his IBG/occasional Triforce/etc and some other exceptions, you just build Sterak's and then proceed to kill just about everything without dying almost ever. Nice try.
Then what was the point of saying they'll lifesteal off minions? They'll kill you instead and lifesteal off that. lmao
Because they shouldn't get themselves into that kind of situation in the first place, and they are literally countered by said types of champions I mentioned earlier. Said champs literally exist to target and murder the squishy carries, and the carries protect themselves against said champs by not being stupid and wandering out like some sheep into somewhere where they have no vision or help. They're not supposed to protect themselves by getting a bullshit shield whenever they'd get caught tout and die then proceed to run away.

Akali, I guess. She's extremely good at punishing mispositioning and her ult makes her impossible to get away from most of the time, if you got yourself into a bad situation. Diana, sure, but she's not going to leap into a team just to kill someone unless she's planning to die with them, which, most of the time, they aren't. This also applies to Akali, if said target runs behind their team, although she does have her Shroud. It's not that much of a help though, because the moment she steps out, she's going to be killed most likely. Evelynn is hardly even a threat, and if you don't just wander off by yourself like a fool, you're not going to have a problem for the same reasons the other aforementioned champs have. Fiora's a bit tankier so she might, but it's still not in her best interest to leap into a team to suicide kill the carry unless the carry is really that much of a problem. Fizz, read above. Irelia, read above. Starting to see a trend. Jax/Kha/Lee/Rengar/Riven/Talon/Xin/Yas, and to a lesser extent, LB/Yi/Nocturne/Rengar, read above. Kass/LB/Shaco are some of the few exceptions I'd say, because of Kass' Riftwalk which can be used for both closing in and escaping quickly, same idea with LB. Shaco is Shaco and will set up various traps/use his clone, so yeah. Not sure why Wu is even in there. He's not even good. But yes, most of the ones you listed would also die if they went into an enemy team to try and kill someone, because then they just get CC'd and die nearly instantly, even if they can still kill their target. And most of the time, this isn't worth it. 6. So, after learning the definition of said word, I'm strongly inclined to disagree with you labelling me as such. But whatever, not going to bother with whatever foolish antics you keep on rambling with. As for your "points", once again. They lose one damage item. They still have 4 other slots. Boots + IE + Youmuu's + Bloodthirster + PD/ER/some other damage item + Sterak's. Even that's enough to still do insane amounts of damage while drastically lowering the chance they will ever die. So.... 7. ADCs are ranged. Not all ranged are ADCs. That's why it's better to lock it out with something like health or literally just ban it for specific champs that would be classified as ADCs. But meh.

Go ahead and keep floundering about with your argument. I'm honestly bored and have nothing else to do so I may as well pay attention. It's amusing to have a laugh at someone else's expense, after all.

NipsahoyMar 23, 20162 votes

That's the whole point of the item... you can't have a game where everyone has ridiculous burst damage and give no way to deal with it in any capacity - and right now everyone has ridiculous burst damage but supports. That's why maw and steraks exist in the first place, to give some counterplay to burst damage.

That's why this whole season as a whole sucks. Tanks do too much damage, bruisers do ridiculous burst damage, assassins are ridiculous, ap burst mages delete people in the blink of an eye. Being squishy is a weakness but that's what items exist for, to help you overcome your weakneses and amplify your strengths. I mean maybe we should remove CDR items from mages because one of their weaknesses is that they are limited by cooldowns. Letting them reduce their cooldowns shouldn't be possible right?

AstôlfoMar 23, 20161 votes

If you don't like being low health, then don't play a squishy in the first place. And no, not everyone has ridiculous burst. Squishies are specifically meant to be weak to burst. Sure, if you don't like it, you could build like, Randuin's. But it's not worth it because the point isn't to be tanky, it's to deal damage from safe distances. On the other hand, Maw/Sterak's have absolutely no significant tradeoff while completely nullifying said weakness into non-existence.

Your logic is horrible, lmao. Randuin's on a squishy is like CDR on a mage. Sterak's/Maw is like something that gives AP and 100% CDR.

IAMS4T4NMar 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you don't like being low health, then don't play a squishy in the first place.

"dont play your favorite champion in the first place" ????????

AstôlfoMar 23, 20161 votes

Nice job completely twisting what I said. Squishies are inherently squishy (low defenses/health). The tradeoff is they do insane amounts of damage. So if you don't like the fact they're squishy, then don't play then. If you play them anyways, stop complaining.

ShonjlMar 22, 20163 votes

Meh, its strong against more than just burst, its damage in general. I have played games where I as ADC Ashe(I hate ADC btw, so barely play it so you can imagine I am not the greatest) Literally facetanked a fed Lee Sin and/or LB just because I had Steraks and 1-2 LS items. Its pretty sad that even on low hp champs how gamechanging that item is. Ohh that LB that could easily blow me up with half her kit suddenly couldn't do shit since I had an item that give be a shield for about 400hp, and what damage she did do I healed up before the shield even wore off.

Ive also had games where I would duel the enemy ADC and won because of the shield when they were in a superior place than me. Like the strong Lucian that is doing extremely well, only to see him lose because my shield popped which could take 1-2 of his autos and during that time I shot 1-4 autos and not only halfed or more him, but also healed whatever damage he did to me.

Photos of GhostsMar 22, 20161 votes

LB likely should have Q'd a couple times before going back in to burst. The problem is doing so between minion waves, because ADCs lifesteal too much from minions.

Maybe it's time to cap lifesteal on minions.

ShonjlMar 24, 20162 votes

I wouldnt be against that, I lost count of how many times I would see Graves or Tristana literally do 1 auto and get 1/3-1/2 their hp back form it. That isnt insane or anything :L

No flash no lifeMar 22, 20162 votes

Don't go for the adc then. Usually you go for them because of the dmg output they deal, but if they're building tanky then they aren't that much of a threat and hence not the priority of your assasination list. Go for their ap carry instead ~

SaiannaMar 22, 201617 votes

Don't go for the adc then. Usually you go for them because of the dmg output they deal, but if they're building tanky then they aren't that much of a threat and hence not the priority of your assasination list. Go for their ap carry instead ~

even tanky ADCs damage output is high enough to make even most feed APC blush.

those 2 "defensive" items have total of +/- 80 AD with some other usefull stats slapped on them.

Lady HammerlockMar 22, 20161 votes

maw is being toned down soon...according to meddler

SaiannaMar 22, 201619 votes

Meddler still believes "marksmen" are squishy, low burst, low cc, so imo his credibility has dropped hard.

ZedexMar 22, 20165 votes

They are squishy with low cc. Don't be upset you can't duel a marksman.

AstôlfoMar 22, 201612 votes

And you must be living under a rock. Try again buddy.

AtanchanMar 22, 20164 votes

I mean, the numbers don't lie. It barely takes a glance at their growth stats to show that they're pretty dang squishy.

Which, yes, is something fair to say, since champions with better stats and defensive steroids can use the same items and become far bulkier than a marksman. Except a Graves that's been allowed to dash several times, but even then he's an utter oddball anyway.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20165 votes

But then they get Sterak's/Maw (usually former). And for some reason, they suddenly become a lot less squishy. What a coincidence.

AtanchanMar 22, 20163 votes

Why, yes. In League of Legends, you can buy items to increase your stats. If you increase your health, you can take more damage before you die because you have more health for your enemies to whittle through. If you increase your magic resist, any magic damage you take is reduced. Additionally, there is another defensive stat called armor which reduces physical damage. Overall, buying defensive items makes you less squishy, because you have more health and / or take less damage.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20165 votes

There's nothing wrong with trying to break the meta. But, with other defensive items (idk, Randuin's for example?), it is a significant trade off as it's expensive, goes against the whole point of ADCs as they're not trying to straight on duel someone 1v1 in the first place till late game and they're strong as hell anyways, and won't help that much. With Sterak's, they just gain a lifeshield that nullifies any attempt at killing them in anything like a burst/fast fashion to prevent them from getting away otherwise, which is literally their one weakness. Now it's been nullified. For what, 2700? 1150 as recipe? And they still build damage for the rest of their 4 slots (b/c boots), and still melt through things anyways. It's just they don't have to worry about dying anymore, because Sterak's is almost entirely idiotproof.

AtanchanMar 22, 20163 votes

I mean, marksmen still end up squishier than anyone else with a Sterak's, aside from some supports and mages with a Sterak's.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20164 votes

Yes, they're still squishy, and you can trigger Sterak's probably half the time easily. The thing is, Sterak's has such a low cooldown it's up pretty much every other fight, if not every fight. And once the shield's up, they just run away, or if they have their team, they just run behind their team and continue to dish out damage, which also gets an increase for some reason for almost dying, before running away anyways if their team hasn't managed to slaughter the enemy team yet.

AtanchanMar 22, 20163 votes

Well, yes, Sterak's is good at that. I don't see what that has to do with what I'm saying, though.

AstôlfoMar 22, 20163 votes

um... it means they're still squishy but they just don't die because they gain a shield that lets them do whatever they want including just running away safely every time they would die.

AtanchanMar 22, 20162 votes

Which is exactly something they'd want because they're so squishy.

And, yes, as our other conversation eventually got to I don't believe Sterak's isn't overtuned, but merely having a really good defensive option does not suddenly make a class not have a weakness of squishiness because they're still building a defensive item instead of anything else - it's only natural it would reduce the effect of their native squishiness.

Hell, mages also get to have their cake and eat it too given that Hourglass gives stasis, quite a lot of armor, and still is one of the biggest AP items. I don't think anyone would go around saying mages aren't squishy, though.

( this isn't saying Hourglass is at the same level of Sterak's, although putting Sterak's nearer to Hourglass's level somehow would probably be a step in the right direction )

AstôlfoMar 22, 20163 votes

Do you not see the problem with completely nullifying the one weakness on a class that has the advantage of being ranged, usually has some sort of ability that provides mobility, and insanely strong and consistent DPS? Them still being squishy means nothing if they don't die because of it, because the amount of damage they'd dish out is enough to more or less kill most champs anyways by that point in game.

Stasis means they also can't move. Meaning the enemy team can catch up or wait for them to come out and then kill them anyways. Sterak's just means they'd run away if their team wasn't there/able to help.