Give Eveylnn some wave clear

Darth Sidiouss·Jan 22, 2018·2 votes·767 views

Only thing she needs whenever i try to push a lane i feel like im doing so 4 times slower than any other champion. Pre rework this was never an issue. Can she please have some wave clear??

16 Comments

OleandervineJan 22, 20182 votes

Uhm, Q is pretty substantial wave clear. It's on like a 6s cooldown, and unless you have no idea how to use it, it can clear an entire line of minions fairly effectively.

Darth SidioussJan 22, 20181 votes

As jungler u have to be most effective with your time as possible, her pre rework Q was nonstop spam-able as someone with 1M in her pre rework i noticed RIGHT away how slow it is now. A jungler cant babysit a lane or push a needed-to-be pushed lane for centuries, that wasted time accumulates over the match possibly leading into the opposing jungler getting a gold/exp lead on you.

OleandervineJan 22, 20183 votes

Her Q is spammable - against jungle monsters. Junglers are not required to wave clear in the slightest, so I'm not sure where this notion is coming from. Furthermore, if you are sitting in a lane clearing minions, you're not losing on gold or XP, but you are losing your element of surprise, which is why junglers shouldn't be massively wave clearing. Junglers apply pressure by assisting in ganks. They don't split push, unless they have the tools to do it (Tryndamere). The laner should be split pushing their own lane, and you should assist while you can, but it is not your first and foremost duty to sit around clearing lanes while the laners are not there.

Darth SidioussJan 22, 20181 votes

You have to wave clear if ur babysitting a lane for example your mid laner dies and you have to take the would-be wasted exp/gold because the opposing mid laner will push the wave in to punish YOUR laner so if your a good jungler you have to go and babysit. Evelynn is already heavily compensated for her invisibility and map pressure.

LeeSin Diana MasterYi Khazix Jax JarvanIV ^ a few examples that can out babysit her or push a lane more steadily / smoothly than eve atm all these champions can jungle and all of them have smooth auto resets that dont have as punishing CD's like Eve this results in eve under-performing in comparison to the champions listed above, shes need to be more on par in lane pushing.

OleandervineJan 22, 20181 votes

Simply no. She wave clears just fine when she needs to keep a lane under wraps. It should be adequate time for the laner to return to the lane and pick back up. She just can't instantly annihilate a wave in one shot, but then, none of those champions can unless super fed.

And you're absolutely right. Evelynn DOES pay quite a bit for the MASSIVELY POWERFUL capability of not being seen until she's close to enemy champions. Having the map pressure she brings to the table is a huge advantage, so if she has to be slower at lane clearing, that's a fantastic trade off. Not every champion is perfect at every single thing, so stop with this and just accept that it's her weakness.

Darth SidioussJan 22, 20181 votes

Prework Eve had invisibility at lvl 1 and still had better wave control than post and was still fairly balanced, the trade off was evidently clear. Post rework eve trade off is still flunky and unbalanced correctly, her cons dont justify her pros entirely yet.

Evelynn pre rework VS post evelynn

Has far less speed (translated into overall far less map control.)
Q not refreshing on minions is currently way too punishing (CD accumulates into wasted time in lane.)
Her old useful escape was inserted into her Ult only (makes her more linear, less options in situations instead of a universal response that could be applied in different ways.)
Invisibility is acquired only after lvl 6 a great deal of many things can happen before lvl 6.

AzadetheJan 22, 20181 votes

She really doesn't. And she has the weakest camouflage of the game, and her early game is generally often crippled by teams that don't clear pinks, and push their lanes. Pre 6, almost any jungler can invade her and win if they are mechanically good. And once they do, they own her jungle.

Camouflage doesn't actually have a result on damage outputs, and lane pushes. She also is crippled on move speed. You don't think that being one of the only Junglers without a reliable speed burst is "compensation" for the Stealth?

Shaco, Rengar, Twitch..... they all do it better than Eve, and earlier.

Btw, the radar detection of Eve is about 250 more than the old Eve, and not even in range to Q. If you fall victim to it, she better be behind in your escape route, or you really, really suck. I haven't once died to an Evelynn since her rework. But that's because I also play her, and think like her.

Evelynn atm only has a 52% win in Plat + because they buy item 3098 and stop farming and spend the entire game farming gold off Champs. She can't jungle post 10 minutes unless her team is absolutely winning. She can't lane at all. If she doesn't have a Frostfang, she's done for the rest of the game.

AzadetheJan 22, 20181 votes

Even when spammed, Q is a second tier Jungle clearer. Most meta junglers clear faster and with much less gaff than she does, because the damage per volley is so low. Evelynn literally has no post lane loss jungle farm. She takes too long to set it up, and her team/other team take it.

This is why high elo Evelynns are picking up item 3098 and spending the entire game being a second support.

Most junglers absolutely steal waves, and they don't take any time at all doing it: Amumu DrMundo Graves Hecarim JarvanIV Jax Kayn LeeSin MasterYi Malphite Nocturne Udyr Warwick XinZhao

..... All steal lane minions with very little time devoted to it, and it's either because they have a cheap free aoe skill or passive, OR.... they build item 3077

Her Q is not spammable in lanes, and unless you build straight CDR, it's agonizing to clear waves. You end up ULTING to clear waves if trying to protect a turret, because her Q has an 8 second cooldown, and needs the whole volley to actually clear 1 line of mobs (which you usually need 2 volleys per wave)

E has enjoyed the stage of her base lane wave clear as mentioned above, but it doesn't even kill them. It does about 90% of their HP. And now it's getting nerfed by literally about 25% of its power per game, meaning she won't be getting about 4-6 of her kills per game, will hit 6 2 minutes late, and she will lose her jungle more often. And..... ofc.... then she still will have the lane issue.

Things I've done to deal with this: item 3115 item 3165 I put these in early in my build, because Nashors actually does competitive damage with an early game Lich bane, and is 20% CDR instead of 10%, and Morello overcaps Transcendence. 2 items.... about 280-300 AP..... not bad. The attack speed helps her lane a little bit, but it means putting off item 3100 item 3152 until later.

Nut on my ButtJan 22, 20181 votes

Uhh, idk about being a "second support", but yeah I almost never bother to clear waves if there's someone else nearby who can do it instead. It's legit not even worth breaking stealth to kill minions most the time.

Darth SidioussJan 22, 20181 votes

exactly it turns into wasted time and the other jungler takes advantage of that time. Which is why i am even purposing changes to her wave clear

AzadetheJan 23, 20181 votes

Except she can't jungle clear after a point, which makes her inferior without a Frostfang. Her Jungle Clear takes too long unless her team is winning. She spends the entire game post the first turret loss either getting jungle cs stolen by her adc, who can clear it twice as fast, or by the other team, who in turn pink wards the entire lost jungle, and she can't roam outside a lane, which eliminates her entire game presence.

..... Is what I think you're saying.

@Daddy Issues Not all supports are active item utilities. in fact, most shouldn't. Some are mages. What makes them supports is they don't farm, and they generally rely on other teammates to set up plays. Alone, Eve is usually inferior. She relies on teammates to create the confusion to accomplish plays.

Sex Crazed EveJan 22, 20181 votes

Let your passive activate so your E damage passes through the wave. That should help.

Laustin SpaceJan 22, 20181 votes

item 3152

SaturnSC1Jan 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laustin Space,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcNwTTxj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-22T22:46:39.931+0000)

This indeed, as much it might seems weird if you really need to push wave as Eve, Protobelt do a nice job and it's a fairly low cooldown.

Meep ManJan 22, 20181 votes

Evelynn is already very strong statistically right now, I would be hesitant to buff her.

Master NoctJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Evelynn is already very strong statistically right now, I would be hesitant to buff her.

Eve isn't even all that strong, just when she gets ahead (as any other champ really), she's getting a nerf instead, which I find unnecessary because there's more champs that could use it, like MF, Twitch, Trist, Lee, and so on.